Is there a lawyer in the house

[cougar8000]

Is there a lawyer in the house? I need some advice on how to deal with my HOA.

I am a first owner of the property. We have been living there since April of 2001. It is a town home community and I have a unit to my left and right. With a tree line at the back of my property that spans an entire length of the building and beyond.

Problem that I am having is there is a patch roughly 4X10 on my back yard that is right next to a tree line that has no grass. It is dirt and rocks that were left over from construction. Builder put sod there and I was watering it when I moved in but because there is no soil and mostly rocks it never took off. Have been complaining to the HOA ever since and 3 month ago I was told that grass will never grow there because of the shade from the tree line. At the same time there is a grass all around that patch.

I keep telling them that they need to take 6 inches at the minimum of top level out and put a normal soil and then sod and it will grow. Yesterday at the board meeting our HOA president told me that they have other grass to replace that is visible to all and because it is only visible to me it is not important and there is no budget for it. And that I should take care of it my self.

Mind you they have been replacing grass and bushes every year next to the units where people never water and drive on the grass that is next to the driveway to the point that is has to be replaced every year.

So, HOA has no problem replacing their dead bushes and grass and not charge them, but does not have budget to do anything about grass that is on the back of my property because it is not visible???

It is considered a common property. I am paying my dues like everyone else. They are talking about keeping property values up. How does it help my property value?

What are my options?

Thank you.

 

[Murph]

HOA's.... I love them and I hate them.

I would pull out my copy of the HOA by-laws, review them line-by-line, and individually contact the board members. My bet is that there is no prioritization of "visible" versus "non-visible" grass or landscaping in the by-laws and, as such, your issue should be addressed. I recommend contacting the board members individually because, in the setting of the public meeting, it's too easy for the board members to group together and gang up on you. Rather, it's much easier to gain alignment with your needs when you approach them on an individual basis.

If that doesn't work and you're set on not repairing it yourself, I recommend doing something that is a stretch for most people ... but will send a message to the HOA board members. I recommend meeting with your immediate neighbors and signing a petition. Then I recommend you consider taking the petition to the neighborhood and then presenting it to the board at the next HOA meeting. You will find that many people will have similar issues with the HOA and will be willing to sign your petition. The board will pay more attention when they see the extent you will go to stir the pot.

I know it's a pain but I found that the only way to get things done with an HOA is to take the initiative and have a heavy hand.....or get elected onto the HOA board (because they're the people who usually get their issues resolved first)!

 

[donaldb]

well, it may be to late this year w/the season change, and this is not legal advice by any means. But what stuck out at me when I read your post, is the comment that you have never been able to get grass to grow there since you bought the place. I'm assuming you purchased new??

I would consider securing a soil sample and sending to your local state ag university for analysis. Normally it costs only a few bucks. Do it during the winter months so by spring your analysis should be back. Not only to determine what you need to blend in w/the soil to make it more acceptable for your preferred choice of lawn type, but also to ck for foreign contaminants, such as possible oil, hydraulic or diesel spills by heavy earth/dirt moving equipment during the construction process. If some such fluid did by chance spill there, it would likely mean you would never have grass or anything else grow there until the soil is actually removed and replaced.

I had a small spot where that actually happened to me, now bear in mind, it has been almost 20 years ago, I noticed I could not get grass to grow is a certain spot, when I dug down into the soil I could see something wrong and could actually smell either oil or hydraulic fluid, or similar. I removed the dirt w/shovel and put some new in it's place. Grass is great now.

Just a thought. Good luck.

 

[cougar8000]

Murph,

I tried and President was yelling at me for trying to get this done. I was on the board for 2 years and my problem was with fixing it at the time is I have sentience and there were other areas that had to be taken care of and I thought that it wont look good if I get my patch done then.

After my second son was born and I had to miss 2 meetings they elected someone else in my place with out letting me know. I was wrong for them to begin with by preventing them from spending the money in all the wrong places.

I will try the petition path and see where it lands me.

Donald,

Yes, it was brand new and yes I am the first owner.

That is a great advise about the soil sample. I remember builder saying that they were finding engine blocks when they were building the place. there used to be a mechanic shop long long time ago in this spot.

I suppose I need to google soil sampling to find where to send it?!

Thank you guys.

 

[radman]

 

[cougar8000]

Rad, do not give me any ideas. I just might go postal

 

[Murph]

Radman makes a good point but, Alex, what would the Russian mafia do in your situation?

 

[El Toro]

It's 4'x10'. The cost to fix this yourself should be smaller than the cost (in dollars and in further loss of goodwill from your neighbors) to keep pressing forward and trying to get them to do something that they don't think will impact anyone's property values but yours. Roto Tiller rental for half a day, $60. Shovel, rake, and wheel barrow work, good exercise. A yard and a half of top soil delivered, $75. Seed and straw, $40. Satisfaction of establishing nice green grass, priceless. I think you could do this project for less than $200, and you might even get a bunch of "migrant workers" to do it for even less if they know where they can steal dirt.

If you go with the soil sample idea and they find toxic waste, the rules nowadays are such that in most states you would have to disclose it if you were to sell the property, and also if you try to clean it up yourself, you may find the costs for disposal of the contaminated dirt are high. If you want the HOA to take care of a toxic cleanup, it may happen in your lifetime, but if it is more widespread than just your 4x10 patch, it could turn into a real aggravation. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

If it were me, at this point I would fix it myself and cut the losses of my good will.... and when I was done, I might just put the thing up for sale and find a place where my neighbors weren't in control of property adjacent to my house.

 

[cougar8000]

Murph, there would be grass and no evidence that HOA ever existed. I just do not have an industrial grinder available to me at the moment.

El Toro,

What you are saying might be true, but that involves me knowing how to operate that machinery. Time available that I do not have. I think I have mentioned before that I have two kids and a two jobs. Potential problem with something going wrong and HOA making me pay for things that they say are wrong.

If I were to find time and actually do it. I would rather do it with out a machinery. But for **** sake what am I paying money for? There has to be a LAW that should protect me from this crap.

 

[Randy]

throw some mulch down, plant a bush and some flowers and be done with it

 

[cougar8000]

throw some mulch down, plant a bush and some flowers and be done with it

hehe. that requires an approval from HOA.

I want my kids to be able to play in the grass.

 

[artistic rider]

Hey Alex. I have a 3 bedroom, full basement, fenced back yard that you can buy with full grass and rosebushes I planted during the summer. Just a thought

 

[FJRBluesman]

Is there a lawyer in the house? I need some advice on how to deal with my HOA.
I am a first owner of the property. We have been living there since April of 2001. It is a town home community and I have a unit to my left and right. With a tree line at the back of my property that spans an entire length of the building and beyond.

Problem that I am having is there is a patch roughly 4X10 on my back yard that is right next to a tree line that has no grass. It is dirt and rocks that were left over from construction. Builder put sod there and I was watering it when I moved in but because there is no soil and mostly rocks it never took off. Have been complaining to the HOA ever since and 3 month ago I was told that grass will never grow there because of the shade from the tree line. At the same time there is a grass all around that patch.

C8K - I'm trying to understand your issue.

1) Is the tree line "community" owned or do you own it?

2) The patch of grass, do you own it or is it "community" owned?

Both of these matter.

a) If you own the patch of grass and it won't grow due to soil issues, it's your problem.

b.) If the "community owns the patch of grass they should fix it; however, they don't have to. There should be in the CC&Rs and or Bylaws it may mention yard up keep etc.

c) If the "community" owns the trees and the "shade" is preventing your grass from growing you could maybe get them to trim the trees back.

HOA's are horrible, I can't deal with some of the .... people they have on the boards that are just power hungry problem chilrdren.

Good luck.

 

[radman]

Hey Alex. I have a 3 bedroom, full basement, fenced back yard that you can buy with full grass and rosebushes I planted during the summer. Just a thought

An even better deal. I have a back yard for sale, cheap. Complete with dirt, grass with authentic looking weeds, hell, I'll even toss in a small woodland critter or two if ya call before midnight.

 

[fjrchik]

I feel your pain Cougar. They do have to prioritize the money spent for the biggest needs of the hood. Now if everyone would pay their dues like they signed up for (*&^%!), maybe some of the lesser needs would get taken care of more quickly. There was some graffiti on a common fence on the main drag of my hood, which is almost right in front of me. The city pressure-washed it off, now there's a big spot without paint. I'm quite sure this lovely look is not helping me sell my house. And the money that the HOA just received from our gas leases that was supposed to repaint all the common fences is now going to fix the pool because it didn't pass its latest inspections. Great.

Being on the HOA is loveless, thankless job. My BFF is now our president and I can't believe the phone calls he gets from our residents. They completely treat him like crap and our board is actually getting stuff done, stuff the developer neglected for 6 years. Now it is pretty chilly the way they voted you off and I'm guessing there's more to that story, but you may have to wait until some of the staff goes away and new people take over. But getting bent and making enemies is only gonna hurt your effort. Unless you can prove they are sitting on lots of available money and they are refusing you for personal reasons, I'm not sure what you can do legally.

 

[cougar8000]

C8K - I'm trying to understand your issue.
1) Is the tree line "community" owned or do you own it?

2) The patch of grass, do you own it or is it "community" owned?

1) Tree line belong to the next community. There is really not much shade from it to begin with. Here is a shot showing a tree line

Patch without a grass is right by the DEC on the picture

Hmm, maybe I should send them this picture showing that there is sun there.

This picture shows the pathc with out a grass. Look directly right to the cast.

Full size image just add jpg after the dot

https://images111.fotki.com/v751/fileS4jA/e.../friendsover020.

2)It is a townhome. Nothing that out side of the walls belongs to me. All common property.

 

[cougar8000]

Unless you can prove they are sitting on lots of available money and they are refusing you for personal reasons, I'm not sure what you can do legally.

They are sitting on 130K of reserve money and president is pushing to install the Fence, place more street signs to tell people that they can't park even so it is clearly defined in the by-laws, spending money on planting and replanting flowers that die out every 3 month.

Where I am people do pay their dues on time.

So, the money are there. It was made clear that since it is not visible from the front they wont do it. There is nothing in the by-laws that said that this can be done before that or that someone elses house has preferences over my house.

 

[dcarver]

Put concrete down, make it a bike wash area!

 

[exskibum]

But getting bent and making enemies is only gonna hurt your effort. Unless you can prove they are sitting on lots of available money and they are refusing you for personal reasons, I'm not sure what you can do legally.

Well, ****, I wasn't going to reply, but I guess today's procrastination streak is getting the best of me. I practice in this area of law, both for and against HOAs (mostly "for" now), but not in your jurisdiction. I'll agree with fjrchik and others who have noted it'd probably be easier and cheaper to do it yourself (esp. since the HOA seems to have invited you to do that).

The board usually has a lot of discretion about where to spend whatever limited funds it has available for such projects. Their attys, arbitrators and the courts are all likely to defer to them prioritizing projects that are more obvious in their location and effect on the value of the most residents' townhomes, too. If this is demonstrably on common area, AND either posed a safety issue, or arguably resulted in further deterioration of common area or private property, then you have a much better argument for persuading the Board to fix it. (That it has existed in that condition so long probably suggests it does neither, however.)

Long story short is that this seems to be worth too little money to spend much time or money on attys, or to be worth alienating the board or other members in an effort to have dues directed to fix the problem. Once you get an attorney involved, then you likely will have spent more money on the process in the first week than the cost of fixing the problem. And the Board will be paying their attorney to address it if you push it hard enough.

But you do what you think you must. I'll just say that it's likely that any remedy you have will be found in the HOA's governing instruments, especially in the architectural review provisions and in any language in the bylaws that may grant to or limit discretion in the board in making such decisions. State law regulating HOAs "MIGHT" provide some gloss on that, but my guess is that this is more a matter of persuading the board to do something for you rather than threatening them, OR, of course, do it yourself.

Please don't shoot the messenger -- you asked. And I trust I need not give the full disclaimer about this not being legal advice upon which you may or should rely, that it is based upon my incomplete understanding of all the facts, is worth exactly what you have paid for it, and that you should consult an attorney familiar with such issues in your jurisdiction if you are seeking reliable legal advice??

Good luck.