Magnum Blasters Without Relay

[BrunDog]

Rocha: Gee, someone who actually performed an educated scientific analysis. You guys didn't say shit about his results, which essentially duplicate mine. Thank you for more truth, Rocha.

ionbeam: Sorry this post is full of assholes and is not to your liking. We'll make sure to check with you first next time. FYI you could easily choose to refrain from clicking the 'Add reply' button...

Ock: I am not trying to convince anyone. My original question remains the same, "Is the relay and wiring necessary?" I am not asking for opinions, just facts. And I don't give a shit about $12 or $100 for that matter. I just want it to work right, without over-engineering it. I am not asking to be coddled. If I turn out to be wrong I would be the first to admit it. Besides that, I have never claimed that I am right and anyone is wrong. I just asked the question and provided my thoughts based on calculations - you need to chill the **** out.

FJRandy: Why didn't you claim the 3dB increase in your previous post? This is hard, significant data! It is all about performance first. If I wanted a half-ass horn system, I would have stayed with the stock horns. But we are all doing this to improve our safety. I admitted it being borderline and never made any effort to lure someone into doing it this way. I am just seeking the truth. That is why, like you, I am saying that I will test it some more.

-BD

 

[Woodstock]

[by the numbers a bumble-bee doesn't fly ]

That whole "bumble-bee's can't fly" stuff is an urban legend.

 

[FJRandy]

Rocha: Gee, someone who actually performed an educated scientific analysis. You guys didn't say shit about his results, which essentially duplicate mine. Thank you for more truth, Rocha.
ionbeam: Sorry this post is full of assholes and is not to your liking. We'll make sure to check with you first next time. FYI you could easily choose to refrain from clicking the 'Add reply' button...

Ock: I am not trying to convince anyone. My original question remains the same, "Is the relay and wiring necessary?" I am not asking for opinions, just facts. And I don't give a shit about $12 or $100 for that matter. I just want it to work right, without over-engineering it. I am not asking to be coddled. If I turn out to be wrong I would be the first to admit it. Besides that, I have never claimed that I am right and anyone is wrong. I just asked the question and provided my thoughts based on calculations - you need to chill the **** out.

FJRandy: Why didn't you claim the 3dB increase in your previous post? This is hard, significant data! It is all about performance first. If I wanted a half-ass horn system, I would have stayed with the stock horns. But we are all doing this to improve our safety. I admitted it being borderline and never made any effort to lure someone into doing it this way. I am just seeking the truth. That is why, like you, I am saying that I will test it some more.

-BD

I don't believe this!

Your question was answered in my last post. WTF?????

Can't you take a FACTUAL TESTED answer to be true, even if it isn't coming from you???? I'm sorry if it wasn't scientific enough. It was an ACTUAL test.

answer to your 1st question and listen up.........YES! YOU NEED A RELAY!!!

answer to your second question...I didn't post the results because that issue didn't come up yet. Remember? You ONLY asked if a relay was needed.

I'll say it one more time...you NEED a relay or else your horns will not have the dB output they were made to produce.

WHY, YOU ASK??? Because the factory horn wire is NOT capable of producing high current fast enough to produce full output of the horns. THIS IS A FACT, believe it or not. I'm not the first to test this theory right on the bike either.

This is the exact same reasoning you put a larger ga power wire on an automotive amplifier. Sure, it will work fine at low volume with smaller wire, but turn it up and make it look for more current to produce the output it was designed for and it sounds like shit. Every time you hit a heavy bass note, the amp would "clip"> a result of too small a power wire not able to deliver the quick shot of current needed to produce that nice tight bass note. Of course this is with all else being properly installed. To be fair, there are quite a few things that could cause an amp to clip, but power and ground wire size are the culprits 8 out of 10 times.

The latest craze is to use a 2 fd stiffening capacitor to ease the current "pull" from the battery.

There is NO difference between that power application and this.

Jesus Christ...get over it!

Yes.....it's JUST that simple. Stop overthinking it! :argue:

The R&D work has been done for you already. Move on to the next farkle.....PLEASE!

 

[Thug]

FJRandy: Why didn't you claim the 3dB increase in your previous post? -BD

FJRandy

problem #3.......you paid for louder horns, right? Did you know those horns are working at around 60% volume if run through the factory wiring?

Well he sort of did DB?

 

[ock913]

Ock: My original question remains the same, "Is the relay and wiring necessary?" you need to chill the **** out.

Me??? I'm starting to think your a couple nuggets short of a Happy Meal. FYI .... your original question has been answered ......... uh. several times over. But you won't accept the answers. Just install the thing the way you have decided is adequate. You have backed it up with all your scientific facts and formula's, so just do it. Geez ...... nuff said.

 

[radman]

Ok, enginequeers, how do I install this Mega-Horn?

 

[TestPilot]

Boring night considerable brightened by this thread. Now I know that if ever I want cheap entertainment just find some musings by BD and watch him take on the world and commonsense.

You go gettem, BD. Don't let experience or commonsense stop you. You know they are all wrong, and I just love the way you have to prove it.

Hehehehehe, and when your wires melt after your switch has welded closed, we, good citizens that we are (not), won't even say nanananaa, told you so!

 

[fastersilverfjr]

My gawd...you own a $10,000+ motorcycle and you are going to fuss over a $35 harness if purchased from FJRandy or maybe about $15.00 in material if made yourself. Give me a fricken break. That is stupid as stupid does. :blink:

The right thing to do is use some type of harness if you are going to install the Magnum Blasters. How difficult is it to get that? How can one seriously argue against that?

So, agreed, this is right on the fence. There is still no way to know if the switch can handle the current, but I am willing to give it a run. Worse comes to worse, I wear out the switch and replace it. But I am not crazy about $115 to replace it, so maybe I'll just add the relay in the location I stated above (I will likely go that route).

Now I get it, don't want to spend $15 to $35 on a harness to potentially save around $115. Don't want to to spend $15 to $35 because some measurements and calculations put you on the fence of doing what is right on your $10,000 bike and what is wrong on your $10,000 bike.

Geez man, how much do you get paid at work? You just spent far more than $15 to $35 to prove us wrong and you actually failed. Heck, I make way too much fricken money to continue this post...get the damn harness fool. :haha:

However, everyone is entitled to thier opinion even when damn, damn wrong.

...was that defensive? Right on FJRandy, thank you for your harness buddy!!! :clap:

 

[ionbeam]

QUOTE (ionbeam @ Aug 4 2005, 05:48 AM) By the numbers a bumble-bee doesn't fly 

That whole "bumble-bee's can't fly" stuff is an urban legend.

[More than we ever needed to know]

Young whipper-snapper, grew up too late to appreciate the mysteries of the world :haha:

Why, once there was a time when science was baffled and bamboozled about how the bee flew. For the given weight of the BB the wings were ~ 3 times too small for flight. Finally science developed the tools that let them see how the bumbling bee did a tricky little twisting, rotating wingie thingie. The twisting reduces downward drag and then a rotating, twisting motion on the upward swing generates very high speed air flow over the top of the wing. This action creates more lift than the wing's surface area was expected to develop based on basic flapping. And thus, the beeflew.

[/More than we ever needed to know]

Alan

 

[FJRottie]

Ok, enginequeers, how do I install this Mega-Horn?

:rolf: :lmao: :rolf: :clap:

:jerry: :jerry:

 

[fastersilverfjr]

I just want it to work right, without over-engineering it.

Over-engineering by using a simple harness with wires a bit heavier than stock is over-engineering??? Holy Shit! I pity your clients if that is really your position here. :eh:

Along those "over-engineering" lines, why would you even consider running anything even close to 100% capacity? All rules in every profession require room for error.

Lastly, if you have been around for any length of time at all on any of the other sites and took any time to do any searches, you would find out and already know that the risk you are considering has been tried and has failed with others. IE, others have had their stuff welded using the stock wires.

Hey, how about we learn from the mistake of others. Saves time, Saves energy, Saves money.

By the way, dino all the way. Never touch the synthetic stuff. If it wasn't alive once, it isn't worth it.

 

[Woodstock]

QUOTE (ionbeam @ Aug 4 2005, 05:48 AM) By the numbers a bumble-bee doesn't fly 

That whole "bumble-bee's can't fly" stuff is an urban legend.

[More than we ever needed to know]

Young whipper-snapper, grew up too late to appreciate the mysteries of the world :haha:

Why, once there was a time when science was baffled and bamboozled about how the bee flew. For the given weight of the BB the wings were ~ 3 times too small for flight. Finally science developed the tools that let them see how the bumbling bee did a tricky little twisting, rotating wingie thingie. The twisting reduces downward drag and then a rotating, twisting motion on the upward swing generates very high speed air flow over the top of the wing. This action creates more lift than the wing's surface area was expected to develop based on basic flapping. And thus, the beeflew.

[/More than we ever needed to know]

Alan

I'm sure there was a time where "scientists" didn't know how a bee flew, and I'm sure that how a bird flew was known earlier than a bee, but "scientists" have known how bees fly for quite some time. This is a common quote that makes it sounds like we either don't currently know, or just receintly figured it out.

 

[ionbeam]

[How off topic is this?]

The bumble bee story is no longer used as a factual report, it has become an icon or a metaphor used to illustrate that sometimes there is more to a topic than science alone can (presently) account for.

Leave the literal interpretation behind and embrace the metaphor and life will be good again

Alan

 

[ionbeam]

radman said:

I just hope we don't get a proctologist on staff here.

To which I replied to his joking:

He would starve to death in this forum, some of the people here are perfect a$$ holes

and BrunDog replied:

ionbeam: Sorry this post is full of assholes and is not to your liking. We'll make sure to check with you first next time. FYI you could easily choose to refrain from clicking the 'Add reply' button...

Lessons learned:

BrunDog

1) Engineers should never try to joke around. The whole 'joke' goes like this: "Man, he will *never* have hemorrhoids because he is a perfect asshole." Get it? I adapted. Evidently poorly. If anyone here needs to be called an asshole it is much more effective to do it personally rather on a public forum. If they really need to be called an ass I will seek Warchild's tutoring and learn how to do it right.

2) The majority of replies I posted to this horn thread were hopefully informative, if not directly to you then to others that are sharing an interest in this thread.

3) I have done extensive testing of automotive harnesses and relays as relates to lighting. I have a lot of test results that lead to the conclusion that supplemental wiring harnesses and relays do in fact make a difference in higher current applications. I did the testing with several other engineers, a couple of whom are PHDs (for better or worse). I didn't 'go there' because it was lighting and automotive but he correlation is there.

3) May (name a deity) give me the insight to know when at least part of what I contribute is of no use or value and I will refrain from clicking the "Add reply'

4) It does not matter if someone agrees with me. I’m not trying to sell my ideas or view point to anyone. I do intend to share experiences and perhaps a bit of tech. It is an individual’s choice as to what they will do with their project, I just try to help it be an informed choice. Or, at least help them see alternative choices.

Returning back to the horn thread.

Alan

 

[Ignacio]

Page 1 is better for this thread. Page 2 is........uhhhhh.....not so good.

 

[twowheelnut]

Wait a minute. :stop:

Do I have this right? :dntknw:

You guys are arguing about horns and relays? :dntknw:

Sheesh.

And I thought I was mentally handicapped! I'm glad to have company here at the asylum... :wacko:

And what's this about flying bee's? I thought they bumbled... :secret: :search:

 

[FJReady]

Alan,

You're views of course are helpful to all who need them and appreciate the thought and time that went into them.

The horn relay/heavy wiring farkle is based on sound engineering principles, straight forward, easy to understand(and implement) and cheap to install. Its inherently reliable due to the fact that nothing is highly stressed, given all connections are robust. Everyone who's taken the time to install one at least gets the picture as to why its worth doing. Easy, cheap, effective. Excellent insurance for your farkling $$. Best reason as has been mentioned several times is that it allows full potential of the horns to be realized. No argument.

I think BD is just bent on proving his theory as stated in paragraph one of his first post. I think he cannot see cleary the beauty in the simplicity of the wiring/relay improvement and needs to feel some concurrence from others to justify his point of view. If he could tone down the confrontational tone he might get friendlier responses.

Just my opinion.

FJReady

 

[fastersilverfjr]

Ah, thanks for the clarification FJReady.

@BD, I...ah...concur that you should use a wiring harness. There, does that help? :bigeyes:

TWN...that is too funny dude. I went back and read the posts including mine and cannot believe the time wasted on the thread. Way too funny!

 

[ionbeam]

I can't remember who posted this on the EZ site but I think now is is an appropriate time to post it on the new forum. This is not aimed at anyone, it is a blanket statement and includes me.

 

[twowheelnut]

That was Mr. Spinny Head, IIRC. By the way, where the hell is he, anyway?