Migrating to BMW ...?

[radiummadman]

Hey El Toro, a lot of BMW riders are whiny assed bitches because they are never happy, they buy a BMW thinking it will make them king shit

and better than everyone else that does not have a BMW and most that do have a BMW because THEY are such special and superior people.

They ride it a while and suprise, it is just like everything else in life, it has it's quirks, does some things well, some not so well

and other things not worth a shit. It is not perfect like them so they whine & bitch and blame the whole world for all of their problems.

Remember the old joke about the difference between a porcupine & a BMW car ??? I bet the people in BMW customer service who deal with

these pricks on a regular basis could go postal at any moment.

 

[El Toro]

Hey El Toro, a lot of BMW riders are whiny assed bitches because they are never happy, they buy a BMW thinking it will make them king shit

There's some of this with every marque. Its pretty much a root issue in consumerism/materialism. Generally, if you're not already happy, more stuff won't make you happy.

and better than everyone else that does not have a BMW and most that do have a BMW because THEY are such special and superior people.

There's some of this for every marque too. A lot of folks think that the bike/car/house/spouse/etc makes them special and superior to others. Its human nature. People tend to judge others based on an algorithm or ranking scheme that puts themselves at the top.

I have to admit, I would not want to be a customer service representative, or a service manager for BMW Motorrad. Maybe the cars are the same.

Nevertheless, just because BMW seems to attract some of the whiniest people on the planet, it doesn't mean that there aren't also a lot of nice people who choose that marque. Me? I'm an equal opportunity motorcycle marque owner. Aside from my experience with Piaggio, I have to say that I've enjoyed every bike from every manufacturer on some level. I've said it before, but we really do live in the Golden Age of Motorcycles.

 

[cdc]

Thanks for the interesting comments, particularly from el señor beemerdons and Mr El Toro.

I have been looking at the 1600GT for a while and visiting the K1600.. site. I do not see many complains about failures, but being a new model it would be expected to have more issues than our non-changed FJRs.

I love the AE and if I know I will miss the electric clutch if I replace the bike as I cannot keep two. (I wilsh...).

Thanks again!

 

[user 213]

Thanks for the interesting comments, particularly from el señor beemerdons and Mr El Toro.

I have been looking at the 1600GT for a while and visiting the K1600.. site. I do not see many complains about failures, but being a new model it would be expected to have more issues than our non-changed FJRs.

FYI - two weekends ago I was present when a 17k mile K1600 pulled into the parking lot with a badly leaking final drive. I know the rider, he's only had three final drive failures in the past on two different bikes and does ride a lot of miles. It's still not fixed, as his dealer is arguing with BMW about how it's going to be repaired. IOW, it had to be uhaul driven from Salt Lake City to SoCal and it has been at the dealer ever since. Perhaps you noticed, it's summer, a.k.a prime riding weather. :dribble:

BMW? Really?

While the Final Drive problems have lessened, they do continue to occur. Even on the newest flagship models. One claim I have heard is that the FDs are not correctly shimmed from the factory. There are several people that are knowledgeable about this that claim to have seen improperly shimmed FDs from the factory and claim that once corrected, no problems are experienced. I believe them, but don't think this can continue to explain the current new bikes failing too.

Good luck with your new bike fever.

 

[SkooterG]

Thanks for the interesting comments, particularly from el señor beemerdons and Mr El Toro.

I have been looking at the 1600GT for a while and visiting the K1600.. site. I do not see many complains about failures, but being a new model it would be expected to have more issues than our non-changed FJRs.

FYI - two weekends ago I was present when a 17k mile K1600 pulled into the parking lot with a badly leaking final drive. I know the rider, he's only had three final drive failures in the past on two different bikes and does ride a lot of miles. It's still not fixed, as his dealer is arguing with BMW about how it's going to be repaired. IOW, it had to be uhaul driven from Salt Lake City to SoCal and it has been at the dealer ever since. Perhaps you noticed, it's summer, a.k.a prime riding weather. :dribble:

BMW? Really?

While the Final Drive problems have lessened, they do continue to occur. Even on the newest flagship models. One claim I have heard is that the FDs are not correctly shimmed from the factory. There are several people that are knowledgeable about this that claim to have seen improperly shimmed FDs from the factory and claim that once corrected, no problems are experienced. I believe them, but don't think this can continue to explain the current new bikes failing too.

Good luck with your new bike fever.

I had heard the rumors. Thanks for the detail. That poor fecking bastard Meese just can't stop drinking the Kool-Aid. No matter how many times it gives him the shits! :lol:

 

[Fontanaman]

I've got a '12 K1600GTL and an '09 FJR AE. I really like them both very well, and like Don, I think they'll both be kept for a good while. The weight to power ratios are about the same. The 6 is a little smoother, and with the single throttle body, you don't get into throttle body synch issues. The 6 is seriously detuned from what it could be.

The BMW is heavier and more prone to stressing the rider when walking the bike around. I have Russell seats on both of them (didn't like either of the stock seats, and went through various options with both before finally paying for the Russells). The BMW has a heck of a lot more onboard storage capacity, which is nice for longer trips. The BMW saddlebags will take an XL Shoei helmet if they're empty when you decide to stuff it in. The FJR's bags won't take the XL Shoei shell.

The BMW sucks me in with its onboard technology. I did not expect this. The cruise control, integrated GPS, central locking, audio, electronic suspension, traction control, tire pressure monitoring, etc. have all turned out to be greater comfort inducers than I have found with other bikes (I've had a fair number of the late model BMWs in recent years - 6 since 2007, and 2 in the garage at the present time). The tire pressure monitoring saved my butt the other day on I-40. I was doing 80 mph with the truck traffic, and the TPM started warning me that the front tire was on the way down. By the time the steering got heavy, which would have been the first notice had I not had TPM, I was already off the interstate and rolling into a parking lot for repairs. If the steering had gotten heavy at 80 mph while I was in a curve surrounded by trucks, it would have been more excitement than I care to stand.

Just as I like the technology hook of the K1600, I feel that the simplicity of the FJR and its sporty nature are actually more fun. I love both bikes. If I could only have one, it would be the FJR because of the AE feature. The AE feature is especially useful for me whenever my left foot decides to give trouble. Thankfully, this is not a regular problem for me, but my '09 AE has a permanent spot in the garage.

The worst thing about the K1600 is the forum. The K1600 has the highest Quality of Bike to Quality of Forum ratio I've ever seen. There's more whining there than on any other forum I know of. FWIW, I've never had a single one of the problems that those jokers think plague their bikes.

Very good report. Thanks!

 

[cdc]

Thanks for the interesting comments, particularly from el señor beemerdons and Mr El Toro.

I have been looking at the 1600GT for a while and visiting the K1600.. site. I do not see many complains about failures, but being a new model it would be expected to have more issues than our non-changed FJRs.

FYI - two weekends ago I was present when a 17k mile K1600 pulled into the parking lot with a badly leaking final drive. I know the rider, he's only had three final drive failures in the past on two different bikes and does ride a lot of miles. It's still not fixed, as his dealer is arguing with BMW about how it's going to be repaired. IOW, it had to be uhaul driven from Salt Lake City to SoCal and it has been at the dealer ever since. Perhaps you noticed, it's summer, a.k.a prime riding weather. :dribble:

BMW? Really?

While the Final Drive problems have lessened, they do continue to occur. Even on the newest flagship models. One claim I have heard is that the FDs are not correctly shimmed from the factory. There are several people that are knowledgeable about this that claim to have seen improperly shimmed FDs from the factory and claim that once corrected, no problems are experienced. I believe them, but don't think this can continue to explain the current new bikes failing too.

Good luck with your new bike fever.

These are the type of comments I wanted. Real first hand knowledge / experience.

Thanks.

 

[HotRodZilla]

The worst thing about the K1600 is the forum. The K1600 has the highest Quality of Bike to Quality of Forum ratio I've ever seen. There's more whining there than on any other forum I know of. FWIW, I've never had a single one of the problems that those jokers think plague their bikes.

Hold on a second Toro...Are you saying their forum is full of people that buy a certain brand and type of bike, and then get on their forum and do nothing but bitch about its perceived imperfections??

Lesseeee...Where have I seen that exact scenario played out before? No, don't tell me, its right on the tip of my tongue...I'll figure it out in a sec.

FWIW, I ride with lots of guys that ride BMW's. Know how many final drive failures I've seen? None. Not one. My brothers has been stone reliable and very easy to maintain. It's also tough as Hell. The longer I hear the bitching about BMW FD issues, the more I think they are more related to improper maintenance than an improper build.

Put a dipshit behind the handlebars and things are bound to go wrong.

 

[beemerdons]

FWIW, I ride with lots of guys that ride BMW's. Know how many final drive failures I've seen? None. Not one. My brothers has been stone reliable and very easy to maintain. It's also tough as Hell. The longer I hear the bitching about BMW FD issues, the more I think they are more related to improper maintenance than an improper build.

HotRodZilla brings up an interesting point, I'm a 20 year member of BMW MOA Club #89 AZ Beemers. We have over 250 members and not a one has suffered a final drive failure, we're aware of them from reading "BMW Owners News", but no AZB has ever had one and like me they average about 25K miles a year on their Beemers!

I also happen to be Friends with Mr. Ken Meese that Greg and Eric mentioned, we're Beemer Buddies through our affiliations with BMW MOA and BMW K1600 Forum.

In our last communication, here is what Ken wrote to me: "Yes, the final drive seal is leaking but no, the final drive hasn't failed. The seal is being replaced at my local dealer, whom I trust. It is the first seal leak that BMW has seen anywhere, so they're taking their time to investigate it and to do it right. I can respect that." Seal failure!

 

[beemerdons]

Thanks for the interesting comments, particularly from el señor beemerdons and Mr El Toro.

I have been looking at the 1600GT for a while and visiting the K1600.. site. I do not see many complains about failures, but being a new model it would be expected to have more issues than our non-changed FJRs.

I love the AE and if I know I will miss the electric clutch if I replace the bike as I cannot keep two. (I wilsh...).

Thanks again!

cdc, if business or pleasure ever brings you to Phoenix please give me a call and we'll go out for a ride. You may ride "Gisele" my K1600GT and I'll ride FJR "Lucy Liu"!

 

[scubatech]

I frequently visit G-Spot on ADV Rider and it is a bitch fest as mentioned above. There is always a battle between the loyalists and the complainers. Occasionally there is a good thread from people with little or no problems, so it is refreshing to see that. A lot of this stuff is just folks that hear a noise they don't understand and it balloons into a disaster.

 

[user 213]

Some of you need to get out more. Seal failure is the precursor to bearing failure. No one in your 250 member club has had a FD failure? Geeze, must be some great conversations at the Starbucks in your town!

One year in Hyder, I was standing around talking with a group of riders and it turned out that all 9 of them were BMW riders. One had a FD failure right there in Hyder, AK and was having to have parts flown in so he could repair the bike and ride home. Slightly cheaper than trying to find a way to transport the bike, but he was there for two weeks, IIRC. Then the others start talking about their FD failures. Of the nine, six had had multiple failures, three had had 3 failures each! Several had failures under 25k. Most were K1200LT riders, but the others were GS & RT riders. (edit - ALL 9 had experienced failures, only 3 had -one- failure, yet.)

Truly amazing that any of them continue to ride BMWs, but none of them had plans to change. They bitched about it, but felt that the FD problems and exhaust leaks on the LTs and other issues were simply part of owning a BMW. :blink:

Sorry Zilla, you just don't ride much. If you did, you'd learn that your bike will fail, it's only a matter of when. One guy said to me with great pride, "well heck, my FD failed at 80k miles, if it only happens every 80k, I can live with that!" As if that was somehow acceptable. I just looked at him, pointed to my FJR and mentioned I had twice that mileage with nothing more than a wheel bearing failure and a technician induced engine replacement. Most riders will never put 25k on their bikes. Among riders that do ride, that's quite often less than a year's worth of riding. My wife road 35k last year. BMW told her she rides too much in top gear when they had to replace her 6th gear set under warranty due to galling of the gears. FWIW, she had only had BMW do all of her oil changes, all on schedule. They wanted to blame the oil or change interval until they looked at their own records and discovered that would mean they were blaming themselves!

If anyone reading this is considering buying a BMW, do yourself a favor and go talk to the service dept first, and ask them about the service bulletins, (PuMa letters), for the bike model you are interested in buying. If it's not a new model, ask for the info on the oldest model year before any re-design. That may be an eye opener for you. BMW does not notify owners when service bulletins are issued. They simply wait for you to come to them with the problem, then tell you "we know about that issue". More often than not, we have been told that while they know about the issue, there isn't a fix for it yet, and we're given a proposed date that the fix will be out. I have yet to see a fix for any of the 4 current service bulletins out on the '11 F650GS, and there will likely be a new one shortly for fried stators.

 

[HotRodZilla]

Some of you need to get out more. Seal failure is the precursor to bearing failure. No one in your 250 member club has had a FD failure? Geeze, must be some great conversations at the Starbucks in your town!

One year in Hyder, I was standing around talking with a group of riders and it turned out that all 9 of them were BMW riders. One had a FD failure right there in Hyder, AK and was having to have parts flown in so he could repair the bike and ride home. Slightly cheaper than trying to find a way to transport the bike, but he was there for two weeks, IIRC. Then the others start talking about their FD failures. Of the nine, six had had multiple failures, three had had 3 failures each! Several had failures under 25k. Most were K1200LT riders, but the others were GS & RT riders. (edit - ALL 9 had experienced failures, only 3 had -one- failure, yet.)

Truly amazing that any of them continue to ride BMWs, but none of them had plans to change. They bitched about it, but felt that the FD problems and exhaust leaks on the LTs and other issues were simply part of owning a BMW. :blink:

Sorry Zilla, you just don't ride much. If you did, you'd learn that your bike will fail, it's only a matter of when. One guy said to me with great pride, "well heck, my FD failed at 80k miles, if it only happens every 80k, I can live with that!" As if that was somehow acceptable. I just looked at him, pointed to my FJR and mentioned I had twice that mileage with nothing more than a wheel bearing failure and a technician induced engine replacement. Most riders will never put 25k on their bikes. Among riders that do ride, that's quite often less than a year's worth of riding. My wife road 35k last year. BMW told her she rides too much in top gear when they had to replace her 6th gear set under warranty due to galling of the gears. FWIW, she had only had BMW do all of her oil changes, all on schedule. They wanted to blame the oil or change interval until they looked at their own records and discovered that would mean they were blaming themselves!

If anyone reading this is considering buying a BMW, do yourself a favor and go talk to the service dept first, and ask them about the service bulletins, (PuMa letters), for the bike model you are interested in buying. If it's not a new model, ask for the info on the oldest model year before any re-design. That may be an eye opener for you. BMW does not notify owners when service bulletins are issued. They simply wait for you to come to them with the problem, then tell you "we know about that issue". More often than not, we have been told that while they know about the issue, there isn't a fix for it yet, and we're given a proposed date that the fix will be out. I have yet to see a fix for any of the 4 current service bulletins out on the '11 F650GS, and there will likely be a new one shortly for fried stators.

Your post just adds validity to my opinion. Three of those guys had three failures each? I wonder if their failures were due to improper maintenance. But of course, we wont know, because like always, someone who knew someone, heard someone had multiple FD failures. Shit, if you get the right guys together from this forum, three out of three of them have had catastrophic engine failure. That must mean FJRs have faulty engines but Yamaha won't admit their design failure.

As far as my riding, thanks, but I do plenty. I dont know what that has to do with anything I said, but your majestic opinion is noted. I never said a BMW or a FJR would never fail. I was noting that people come to this forum and look for reasons to bitch about insignificant issues.

So with my paltry umber of miles ridden, I wonder why it is that the most dominate adventure Tourer in the world has been a BMW for years. You also overlooked the fact that I rode a BMW at work for 2 years. Those bikes get hammered. Massive stop and go, tons of red line runs as well as slow moving, heat generating friction zone riding.

Guess what...no serious problems other than a clutch replacement, and some electrical gremlins that were a result of the after market light, radio and radar installations. No seal leaks, no FD failures, no fire explosions.

Sorry Eric. You assumed I don't have any experience, but we all know what happens when you assume. Seems to me, and I could be assuming here, that your only experience with BMW was your wife's crappy service experience. Do you really think that BMW service techs are any better than the Yamaha service techs people here gripe about all the time? Some are great, and some suck. It is what it is.

I would still buy a BMW any day of the week.

 

[beemerdons]

Sorry Zilla, you just don't ride much. If you did,...

Eric, are you unaware our HotRodZilla was a Law Enforcement Motorcycle Patrol Officer in New Mexico for a number of years? It's safe to say that HRZ has accumulated as many miles as you!

 

[user 213]

Sorry Zilla, you just don't ride much. If you did,...

Eric, are you unaware our HotRodZilla was a Law Enforcement Motorcycle Patrol Officer in New Mexico for a number of years? It's safe to say that HRZ has accumulated as many miles as you!

I am. And I still say the boy don't get out much. Parking by the side of the road and doing traffic work isn't covering miles. That's like bragging about your commuting miles. :dribble: Riding the same roads back and forth on a daily basis is not the same as going places with sustained time on the bike.

I personally know quite a few people that have suffered FD failures. Most, but not all, in the long distance riding community. Of them, 90% are very, very good at doing maintenance. For the FD, we're talking about oil changes for christ's sake, that's not exactly a major effort.

As to the poor maintenance theory, you're right, it can't be ruled out. But what, exactly, do you think is required for FD maintenance? And do you really believe the dealer when they tell you your zero maintenance FD never needs oil changes? Then they change the design two years later to add back drain and fill plugs. Anyone can get a bad tech.

One of the people I know that suffered a FD failure on a GS at about 40k had actually trailered his GS to the same dealer in Reno, feeling strongly that it was the best dealer and techs, for every service. Religious about all specified service intervals. It didn't help.

I know two die hard BMW riders that despite their previous failures, and despite adamantly defending the brand's reliability, have spare FD units that get packed on the bike for trips. One even practiced swapping it out until he could swap the entire FD unit in 20 minutes.

 

[FastSpy]

wonder if a summary of this type of information (not mine shown) would provide any credibility to the FD failures?

 

[NMRoadRunner]

I ride with some BMWers and they have broken down more then they would like to admit. And I hear the K1600 oil filter cost $58, Damn! How far between valve checks do they go? I like them well enough, but they are too expensive for my blood. B) They are a Hummer, mine is a Suburban. They will both go to the same places, only one costs you more to get there.

 

[beemerdons]

I ride with some BMWers and they have broken down more then they would like to admit. And I hear the K1600 oil filter cost $58, Damn! How far between valve checks do they go? I like them well enough, but they are too expensive for my blood. B) They are a Hummer, mine is a Suburban. They will both go to the same places, only one costs you more to get there.

$58??? https://www.beemerboneyard.com/11427673541mk.html Bud, I bought 4 Mann OEM K16 oil filters with crush washers and the filter wrench ( at $16) for $66 including shipping!

Valve clearance check interval is 18K miles, here at AZ Beemers we've already had a Technical Workshop Day and it is no harder to do than an FJR with two more jugs.

 

[RadioHowie]

I'd do an FJR with THESE "two more jugs".....and so would you, Papa Chuy...

Thank Gawd they're not horizontally opposed!

 

[Spud]

I'd do an FJR with THESE "two more jugs".....and so would you, Papa Chuy...

Thank Gawd they're not horizontally opposed!

Don't need those w/a BMW--a permanent erection is included with each bike...

https://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/man-sues-bmw-alleging-motorcycle-seat-gave-him-010902532.html