panthercity
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Gosh, I must have missed the insults in his opinion... I'll be a good little foww and keep my opinions to myself unless they are of the
New Owners change your oil
- Thread starter bmac
- Start date
Help Support Yamaha FJR Motorcycle Forum:
flyinlow
Well-known member
I understand both sides of this debate. I do believe there is a significant amount of engine wear in the first 100 miles. I do believe that there will be some metal particles in the oil. I also believe that the manufacturer, if they really had concern, would have you change it much quicker, because if it caused that kind of damage, they would have to take care of it under warranty.
I was raised by a man (my father) who was religious in maintenance and properly taking care of things, including keeping them clean. My dad was the CWO4 Maintenance chief for all of the OMS shops for the North Dakota National Guard (one of the most highly decorated and top rated guards in the country). He didn't start out at this position, but worked his way up to it, so he knows a little about maintenance. But, he also has to keep a budget and is accountable to tax payers, which means sticking to the manufacturers maintenance schedules. In the whole time that he was in charge, they only lost one motor. It was a marine engine in a bridge building boat. This motor runs a huge jet pump (no prop) and these boats hold a float bridge in place on a fast moving river. They did an initial analysis of the failure (rod went through the block) and then they shipped the motor back to England where its made. Both the manufacturer and his techs agreed that the motor had been overrevved by a significant amount and time. Needless to say, the weekend warriors running the boat were reprimanded.
My point is that the manufacturers know what to do about breaking in their engines. You can change the oil early if you like, but I'm sure we can find many instances where we could compare people who changed right away and often, and people who stuck to the maintenance schedule who got the same dependability and mileage out of the same model of motorcycle or car.
Radman, its funny you should mention that in your post you've never had a vehicle leave you buy the side of the road. I was thinking the same thing the other day, I've never had any of my vehicles leave me by the side of the road, and I followed the manufacturers recommended maintenance. One of those vehicles was an '86 Audi 5000 turbo quattro, at that time an almost exotic car because of all the things it had (ABS, all wheel drive with selectable locking differentials, trip computer, etc.). That car had 150,000 miles on it when I sold it and the guy who bought it put on another 40,000 before he sold it. All with regularly scheduled maintenance.
I will say that a lot of people do not read their maintenance schedules correctly. Many look at the numbers and go by them and don't read the caveats like running in stop and go traffic, or dusty areas, etc. mean you have to move up the maintenance.
I was raised by a man (my father) who was religious in maintenance and properly taking care of things, including keeping them clean. My dad was the CWO4 Maintenance chief for all of the OMS shops for the North Dakota National Guard (one of the most highly decorated and top rated guards in the country). He didn't start out at this position, but worked his way up to it, so he knows a little about maintenance. But, he also has to keep a budget and is accountable to tax payers, which means sticking to the manufacturers maintenance schedules. In the whole time that he was in charge, they only lost one motor. It was a marine engine in a bridge building boat. This motor runs a huge jet pump (no prop) and these boats hold a float bridge in place on a fast moving river. They did an initial analysis of the failure (rod went through the block) and then they shipped the motor back to England where its made. Both the manufacturer and his techs agreed that the motor had been overrevved by a significant amount and time. Needless to say, the weekend warriors running the boat were reprimanded.
My point is that the manufacturers know what to do about breaking in their engines. You can change the oil early if you like, but I'm sure we can find many instances where we could compare people who changed right away and often, and people who stuck to the maintenance schedule who got the same dependability and mileage out of the same model of motorcycle or car.
Radman, its funny you should mention that in your post you've never had a vehicle leave you buy the side of the road. I was thinking the same thing the other day, I've never had any of my vehicles leave me by the side of the road, and I followed the manufacturers recommended maintenance. One of those vehicles was an '86 Audi 5000 turbo quattro, at that time an almost exotic car because of all the things it had (ABS, all wheel drive with selectable locking differentials, trip computer, etc.). That car had 150,000 miles on it when I sold it and the guy who bought it put on another 40,000 before he sold it. All with regularly scheduled maintenance.
I will say that a lot of people do not read their maintenance schedules correctly. Many look at the numbers and go by them and don't read the caveats like running in stop and go traffic, or dusty areas, etc. mean you have to move up the maintenance.
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Thumperbike
Well-known member
My first oil change was at 580 miles. Absolutely no debris and oil looked like new. The diff on the other hand was changed at 1150 miles because I had to order the Yamaha gear oil. The magnetic plug was covered with fuzz and the oil was black. I am breaking the bike in as I plan to ride it. Occasional high rev/speed romps, but mostly just freeway driving 65-75. Getting right at 48 mpg.
P
pickax
Guest
Changed mine today at 150 miles. No big chunkage or discoloration, but some noticable fine silver(aluminum?) particles. That stuff has got to be abrasive . Probably from machining the new engine. Glad I got it out. Oil is cheap, I'll do it again at 3-4 hundred.
Could find no Mobil 1 sythetic 80-90 but got same in valvoline brand, will change rear differential with it if no one warns against it.
Only got 50 miles on today, mostly running around town Wrist is better, moved bars up but I think it's probably just a matter of relaxing my grip and getting used to the machine. Did I mention this bike is great!!!
Could find no Mobil 1 sythetic 80-90 but got same in valvoline brand, will change rear differential with it if no one warns against it.
Only got 50 miles on today, mostly running around town Wrist is better, moved bars up but I think it's probably just a matter of relaxing my grip and getting used to the machine. Did I mention this bike is great!!!
panthercity
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Usin' the cheap stough, eh? That can get you tarred and feathered `round here...
AdamJ
Active member
A couple people have said they did their first oil change after a reasonably long interval and didn't see any debris in it. Sorry, but my WTF meter just spiked...did you look for debris by viewing the oil under strong light, or just fish around for particles in the bottom of the pan? New motors usually don't leave anything big enough to settle in the pan, but if you look at the oil under strong light the particles are very obviously there, swirling around in suspension. If your used oil didn't look like this, the motor's probably not broken in properly, or was already broken in when you got it.
I'm the "change it early" type also, but I usually wait until I've got ~ 200 miles before the first change. I've always wondered how much damage particles which are small enough to get past the filter can do to the engine. Bearing surfaces would be the most obvious concern, where softer metal would tend to get smeared over harder metals under load, but maybe it just eventually wears back down to the bearing surface without much damage.
I'm the "change it early" type also, but I usually wait until I've got ~ 200 miles before the first change. I've always wondered how much damage particles which are small enough to get past the filter can do to the engine. Bearing surfaces would be the most obvious concern, where softer metal would tend to get smeared over harder metals under load, but maybe it just eventually wears back down to the bearing surface without much damage.
madmike2
Shtirrenuppenmeister
The differential oil should have been black. IIRC, unlike the engine oil, the differential does have break-in lubricant (moly paste?) from the factory.
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Well said, my first oil change was late in the day with the sun shining on the oil as it was draining. The light reflecting off of those particles was very visible and made the oil appear to be gray. These particles are indeed very small but they are definitely there in all new engines, except of course, for those factory specials.
Controversial but interesting reading on "break in"
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Ah, nothing like a good pissing match about oil changes!
I changed my oil the first time at 600 miles. It looked like new oil. There were no splooges. No metal filings. No gray stuff. Just clean oil. Same thing in the final drive.
My penny is the engineers who designed the motor know a potload more than anyone else about when to change the oil. I follow their instructions, more or less.
What I REALLY think is silly is the "3000 mile" "rule" for car oil changes. That's a brilliant bit of marketing hooey by the quick lube places. I change it according to the owners manual, around 5000-6000 miles. Last three vehicles I had I put 185k, 165k, and now have 97k on the current car, I haven't burned a drip of oil yet. The 185k one got totaled, but I actually know the 165k one is still on the road, six years after I sold it.
So far, at least, this little oil change contretemps is nothing compared to the passions one sees on the Goldwing forums on occasion. I'd hoped for a little more from the Yamahans.
+1
wickedslow
Member
Does anyone have the link to the oil filter comparison. I remember seeing a list of filters with fit comments for the FJR while I was web surfing last year but forgot to bookmark it.
*never mind. I found it myself https://www.fjr1300.info/mods/oilfilter.html
*never mind. I found it myself https://www.fjr1300.info/mods/oilfilter.html
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If the oil is so bad it needs changing at 20 or 50 miles, well you've already run all that nastiness through your engine many times over... so you've already ruined the thing. (Being facetious.)
Seriously, the reason oil is changed is not due to "dirt" in the oil. Any particles too small to be removed by the filter are held in suspension by the detergent in the oil and are too small harm the engine... up to the point of saturation.
Oil is changed because over time acid builds up and additives deplete from the oil. Neither of these can occur in 20 or 50 miles.
Changing the oil at ridiculously low mileages and short intervals merely wastes a resource, wastes money and adds to the waste stream.... none of which is good.
Seriously, the reason oil is changed is not due to "dirt" in the oil. Any particles too small to be removed by the filter are held in suspension by the detergent in the oil and are too small harm the engine... up to the point of saturation.
Oil is changed because over time acid builds up and additives deplete from the oil. Neither of these can occur in 20 or 50 miles.
Changing the oil at ridiculously low mileages and short intervals merely wastes a resource, wastes money and adds to the waste stream.... none of which is good.
Everybody change the oil with whatever you want, whenever you want, however you want.
Changing the oil after the first 50-100 miles will get rid of particles in the oil, and there is no special oil in the FJR upon delivery.
Hair in my soup won't hurt me, but I would rather not have it in there.
Just the facts.
Changing the oil after the first 50-100 miles will get rid of particles in the oil, and there is no special oil in the FJR upon delivery.
Hair in my soup won't hurt me, but I would rather not have it in there.
Just the facts.
bramfrank
BramFrank
Hey, what the heck. I'll bite and add my opinion to the pile:
I did the early change thing:
Oil and rear drive at 115 miles (both were loaded with particles) then the dealer did the oil (but not the rear drive - I did that myself afterward) at about 700 miles. I just did it again, though I used synthetic for the rear at 1500.
Next work will be according to factory specs at 4000 miles - I'll go with synthetic in the crankcase at that change.
I did the early change thing:
Oil and rear drive at 115 miles (both were loaded with particles) then the dealer did the oil (but not the rear drive - I did that myself afterward) at about 700 miles. I just did it again, though I used synthetic for the rear at 1500.
Next work will be according to factory specs at 4000 miles - I'll go with synthetic in the crankcase at that change.
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shu
Well-known member
bought my stuff for my first oil and lube change on the 06 today, and asked the guys at the shop about synthetics because they always seemed to make my shaft hondas (valkyrie, gold wing) seem smoother and quieter. you all probably already know this, but i was encouraged to use dino oil for at least the first couple thousand miles to allow everything to seat well. makes sense..
i had a beautifully restrored triumph spitfire that didn't leak a drop and was tight as could be. i wanted to baby it like i did my motorcycles, so changed out the oil and put in synthetic. apparently that stuff is a little slipperier than the old dino oil, cuz that puppy started leaking like the exxon valdez. went back to dino oil, but the damage was done. gaskets bypassed and crud dissolved forever..
so i'll get my first change at about 400 miles. meant to be more paranoid, but i was too busy riding. i have never had so much fun with so much comfort. this thing just gobbles the miles and LOVES to corner. i'm sure i don't wring it out as hard as many - have only just touched a footpeg once so far, but man it feels glued down....
thinking about that reno thing....
shu
i had a beautifully restrored triumph spitfire that didn't leak a drop and was tight as could be. i wanted to baby it like i did my motorcycles, so changed out the oil and put in synthetic. apparently that stuff is a little slipperier than the old dino oil, cuz that puppy started leaking like the exxon valdez. went back to dino oil, but the damage was done. gaskets bypassed and crud dissolved forever..
so i'll get my first change at about 400 miles. meant to be more paranoid, but i was too busy riding. i have never had so much fun with so much comfort. this thing just gobbles the miles and LOVES to corner. i'm sure i don't wring it out as hard as many - have only just touched a footpeg once so far, but man it feels glued down....
thinking about that reno thing....
shu
Stiltz
Well-known member
I changed my crankcase and rear end oil at 200 miles and then again at 1000 miles. The change at 200 miles had a lot of metal in it. (especially the rear end). Thre was not very many "sparkles" on the 1k change.
I had the same experience with a car. I had a Blazer with 200K miles on it and I had the brilliant idea that I would prolong it's life by switching to Mobil 1. Man, that thing started leaking from every crevice. What a mess. I could no longer park it on my driveway.
Don
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P
pickax
Guest
Think I'll wait 'till 600 for the rear end,let the break in lube Madmike refers to a chance to work.
Shu, Spitfire is a beautiful bike, I did the same thing with my "78 tiger. Leakage and clutch slippage.
New clutch plates and gasket, and back to dino oil.
Shu, Spitfire is a beautiful bike, I did the same thing with my "78 tiger. Leakage and clutch slippage.
New clutch plates and gasket, and back to dino oil.
P
pickax
Guest
Wait a minute, spitfire is a car (British Leyland) isn't it? Mixed it up with a triumph cub.
