Possible drawback to PR2's?

[Toecutter]

With recent topics claiming "not enough brakes" and now Carl's crash on suspect "low quality tires with bad stopping power", I'm left wondering how much less stopping power the PR2's have, due to the harder compound in the middle of the tread area.

I'm also thinking that I should have ordered a front when I got my new rear tire last week, but it still has a good amount of meat left. Will a worn PR2 stop as good as a newer one?

Knowing that good quality rubber is a big part of stopping ability, now I'm thinking I might get a Pilot Power for the front. Anybody else ran/run one?

 

[MCRIDER007]

With recent topics claiming "not enough brakes" and now Carl's crash on suspect "low quality tires with bad stopping power", I'm left wondering how much less stopping power the PR2's have, due to the harder compound in the middle of the tread area.

After looking at Michlin's website, I don't think that PR2s have a "harder" compound in the center of the tire (in comparison to the original PRs), the difference is that they have a much softer compound on the side of the tires...and the sides may be very similar to Pilot Powers.

 

[Toecutter]

...I don't think that PR2s have a "harder" compound in the center of the tire (in comparison to the original PRs), the difference is that they have a much softer compound on the side of the tires...and the sides may be very similar to Pilot Powers.

Which is why I think a Pilot Power might be a great stopping tire, and might even wear out at the same time as the rear PR2.

 

[user 6393]

Powers are a pure sport tire, made for 'going', not 'stopping' :lol:

 

[MCRIDER007]

...I don't think that PR2s have a "harder" compound in the center of the tire (in comparison to the original PRs), the difference is that they have a much softer compound on the side of the tires...and the sides may be very similar to Pilot Powers.

Which is why I think a Pilot Power might be a great stopping tire, and might even wear out at the same time as the rear PR2.

The PR2 front tire has the same rubber in the center that the back has on the sides so I would be surprised if you could get it to skid much at all on a dry surface. The PP is an extremely "light" tire compared to a PR2, some are using them on the front with a PR2 in the rear, but I would rather have some meat on the bones for a bike as heavy as a FJR.

You referenced Carl's accident as a concern for starting this thread but I didn't see any statement in the thread about Carl's accident that implied he had PR2's on bike...in any case if there was 45-50 feet of skid marks I would think that it would be a rear tire skid mark rather than the front. I have never seen a front tire skid mark that was longer than a few feet...because a front tire skid usually results in a crash a few feet later.

 

[TruWrecks]

I would be curios to the amount a miles/wear on the FJRs will PR2's the have crashed, or ridiers claiming poor stopping power. I know several people that are running them on other bikes with no complaints. Maybe the PR2 needs less air pressure to achieve the same grip as the PR?

 

[C&C]

Sounds like a bit of 'pretzel' logic in some of the above posts. It's not the tires, it's phyics; in the above crash(es), I don't believe, that they would have been avoided by stopping a foot or two sooner (or whether a different tire would have even provided that foot or two).

 

[Afast03nNJ]

Powers are a pure sport tire, made for 'going', not 'stopping' :lol:

In motor sports, stopping requires just as much traction as going.

 

[L2M]

I run the PR2 on the rear and Power on the front. This is my second Power on the front but my first PR2 on the rear (was running a PR before that). I love the power on the front, but I normally ride without luggage. I got right at 6,000 miles on the last Power, at which point some slight cupping was visible. The tire could have gone probably another 500-1000 miles, but I'm planning a multi-week ride and don't need to be looking for new tires in the middle of Colorado. Longevity is certainly not the best, but I appreciate the superior traction from the power.

 

[black cherry]

...I don't think that PR2s have a "harder" compound in the center of the tire (in comparison to the original PRs), the difference is that they have a much softer compound on the side of the tires...and the sides may be very similar to Pilot Powers.

Which is why I think a Pilot Power might be a great stopping tire, and might even wear out at the same time as the rear PR2.

My last set was a pR2 on the rear with a Power on the front, the power was done at 6500 miles and the PR2 had 8500 on it, but the PR2 had a cut so I replaced it along with the front. The PR2 would have lasted 3000 or 4000 more miles if it wasn't for the cut. So my experience is the Power will go 1/2 of the PR2's distance.

I wanted to have something soft up front for the exact reasons you cite.

Now that I have a matching set of PR2's I don't feel any difference in the front PR2 compared to the Power. I still feel very comfortable in the corners and have "tested" the brakes a few times and all is well. Note: I have not pushed the PR2 so depending on how hard you ride you may see different results.

 

[user 213]

Sounds like a bit of 'pretzel' logic in some of the above posts. It's not the tires, it's phyics; in the above crash(es), I don't believe, that they would have been avoided by stopping a foot or two sooner (or whether a different tire would have even provided that foot or two).

+1 It's not the tires guys, (and Barb). It's the rider. Sometimes stuff happens, but often we are responsible for pushing that envelope a bit too far or not paying as close attention as we should. A little common sense and caution goes a long way in regards to being able to stop in time.

Few among us can match the envelope of the tires we use. And anyone that thinks they can, on the street, is a fool. Leave that level of fun for the track.

Sure, you could come around a corner and run into sand or oil on the road, but what tire you have on isn't really going to matter. If you're squirting traffic at 20 over the speed of the cagers, and things suddenly stop, it's not the tire's fault if you can't stop in time yourself. (this is NOT a comment about any thread on the forum, just an example.)

 

[johnny80s]

Powers are a pure sport tire, made for 'going', not 'stopping' :lol:

That does not make any sense.

 

[Toecutter]

Now that I have a matching set of PR2's I don't feel any difference in the front PR2 compared to the Power. I still feel very comfortable in the corners and have "tested" the brakes a few times and all is well.

I guess I'm mostly curious as to which brand and model of "low quality tires with bad stopping power" Carl was wearing and appears to be blaming for this mishap. I have never been less than impressed by the braking power of my FJR, regardless of tire flavor (OEM, Pirelli, Michelin), and I've never taken the front to the point of ABS activating, so I assume there's even more than I've ever used, should the need arise, god forbid.

I'm not crazy about having a front tire that will last only half as long as the rear but, at the same time, I'm not up for taking off tires that still have useful life left in them. Assuming the front will stick and stop pretty much consistently through its tread life, I'll probably stick with the PR2 up front, but not let it wear as far as I do a rear before replacing.

Also, just noticed that the bike listed on Carl's profile doesn't show as an ABS. I know if mine wasn't, I'd be a bit more apprehensive about grabbing a handful of front brake without a bunch of practice....

 

[user 213]

My read is that Carl has a non-abs '05. Don't know what tires he was running. I read that post as considering that the tires my have been part of the equation, but most of us know that once in a skid, things go to hell quickly and when a car pulls out in front of you, the tires probably were not a big factor. Lack of ABS, perhaps. It's pretty hard to relax on the brakes in panic mode so the tires will unlock and then jump back down to attempt better stopping power.

That's sort of what ABS is about. With practice most of us can learn to threshold brake pretty darn good. In panic mode, it's way tougher to execute properly. Once skidding, you're going to take longer to stop than not in a skid. Old Shinkos or ME880s might not be the best, but they still stop about as good as anything else if you don't lock things up.

You're over thinking it a little Toe. It's a good thing that you're thinking, just try not to stress about this. Practice some braking drills and run what ever tires make you happy. Tossing on a Pilot Power is just going to result in a short life for the tire.

 

[Slappy]

I just had to throw my 2 cents in on this one.

After I went through 10,000 and the nasty cupping BT020 I went to road smarts. Went through 2 sets. Both sets got 5K front and back wore equally. Now I am on Pilot Road 2. I have a road that I brake test on. I dont know the exact footage but at 60mph I stop within an average intersection with both the RS and PR2's. That is a 2007A with a full tank of gas, stock brake pads front and rear, empty saddle bags and a Givi 52 with my 300lb ass in a jacket helmet gloves jeans and boots. If there is any difference between these two tires it is 12 inches at most. That last 12 inches of slowing is not enough to throw you off a bike or do major damage to the bike.

From my personal experience on my bike on dry california roads there is little or no difference between RS and PR2 tires under maximum braking full ABS.

 

[Toecutter]

I just had to throw my 2 cents in on this one.

And just the kind of input I was looking for. Thanks!

 

[Warchild]

I will add my anecdotal experience on these PR2's, but won't bother with a ton of background info - most of y'all know how I ride by now.

In a nutshell -

The first ~ 4000 miles, the Pilot Road IIs were exceptional, every bit as good as the Avon Storms they replaced on the bike.

Now, at ~ 5500 miles.... I can not wait to pull these [SIZE=14pt]pieces of ****[/SIZE] off of my FJR. My confidence is this tire has done a complete turn-around. Fast turn-ins are just about scary now. Even in gentle sweepers, I can't seem to maintain a decent line without concentrated effort. These tires are outta here.... back to the Storms. Hell, I'd even run PR's before I'd run the PR2's again. It is unfortunate that the PR2's last so long.... I'd say the rear tire should go another 2500 miles, easy. :glare:

What is really ****** up is that I have a pair of brand new PR2's sitting in the box for the Hayabusa.... based on my experience with the PR2's on the FJR, I'm thinking hard about selling them or trading them outright for a set of Storms....

 

[BwanaDik]

I just had to throw my 2 cents in on this one. If there is any difference between these two tires it is 12 inches at most. That last 12 inches of slowing is not enough to throw you off a bike or do major damage to the bike.

Exactly what I was thinking. I've never seen a tire test, back to back, on the same bike, to measure stopping distances with different tires. I saw a comment in some rag once about how difficult that would be to do. If somebody could do it, I'll bet there'd be little difference between the various manufacture's models.

A short story. While riding my K75S with my SO in the Hill Country, we passed by one of those exotic animal farms. I was gawking at the critters while cruising at about 60 MPH. A pickup truck up ahead was apparently gawking at them too but they had dropped off the throttle and so were slowing down fairly fast. I noticed at the last possible moment that we were almost in the truck bed and so began braking really hard. I some how managed to repeatedly, and very quickly, lock the front tire, much like the ABS system does, but I was in "manual". Managed to downshift to 2nd and do a hard swerve around them to the right at the last instant. No crash, no foul. I was running ME880's I believe. Oddly enough, I think a stickier tire might have dropped us. As it was, I was able to control the skidding front tire.

 

[Sagebrush]

I'm on my first set on PR2's and I'll be getting another set to replace these.

So far they are the longest lasting tire I've had on the bike. I'm getting at least 2K more from them than my last set of Road Smarts. Turn in at 7,000 miles is much better than the Storms or Road Smarts at 5,000 miles. I don't run on public roads at high speed much but, 100 mph sweepers feel secure with the PR2's event at 6,000 miles. No slipping etc.. In tight second gear turns they don't stick as well as the Storms but, I can still do twice the speed limit with no sliding and thats fast enough. The great long wearing center tread doesn't flat spot as bad and the suckers are holding up great. I'll get at least 3,000 miles more out of the PR2's than the other tires I've tried.

We will see how set number two goes but, for now I'll be sticking with PR2's for their overall long life as a touring tire.