PR2 Front End Wobble with dynabeads balancing

[GSL]

Hi,

I just put a new set of pilot road 2 tires on my FJR and and the shop put stick on weights to balance the tires. I thought it look like #$% so I put in the dynabead tire balancing beads in the tires and pulled off the weights. The bike is very smooth to 90 or so MPH but when I go over that speed it starts to wobble in the front not real bad like tank slapping but enough to get your attention. I was wondering if anybody else has had this happen with the PR2 tires or if it is a balancing issue even with the worn Metzlers I could crank it up to 130 MPH or so and not have the wobble in there any input would be appreciated. I never ran the bike up to speed before pulling the weghts off so that is why I was wondering about it being a balancing issue. Thanks again for any input.

Gary

 

[mattster31]

Is it a wobble or an out of balance "hop"??? I had a similar thing happen with my Azzaros (over 100mph the front would hop). Dynabeads are not as good as may be reported IMO. I took mine out of the front and balanced it the old fashioned way. No problems now. I don't think I will use them (dynabeads) anymore. I paint the weights black BTW.

 

[wheatonFJR]

What?

I thought that people swore by those Dynabeads?

Oh. Thanks. Now I know why people do that.

 

[Philip]

Ive used balance beads in 3 different bikes all without any problems, also no problems to top speed on all the bikes..140+

 

[happyPuppy]

Would not putting an ounce or 2 of any plastic beads do the same thing?

 

[Knifemaker]

I guess the question here is how much did the weights you yanked off weigh?

If you pulled off 2 and half ounces of weight and only added 1 and a half ounces of Dynabeads, that be the answer to your problem.

Dynabeads work to "fine tune" a wheels balance, but I would have left the weights on the wheel , especialy if there were a few of them.

You should take the wheel off and rebalance it using stick on weights, and then take that ride to see if it solved the problem..................

.........as it might be something else.

KM

 

[Metric]

The Beads have run into a new problem, but only with certain tires. The Metzlers are the worst of all. The problem comes from the lubrication they use to keep the rubber from sticking to the molds during production. On the outside of the tire the lube is a hazard to riders making the tires slick. On the inside of the tire the lube balls up on the beads and causes them to either clump together or semi-permanently adhere to the tire. Either way, it screws with the effectiveness of the beads.

I’ve installed pounds of beads in hundreds of tires over the last couple of years, but I have only come across this issue a couple of times….all this summer. I personally started having the problem with my own bike with two different sets of Metz Z6 tires. When I pulled the first set off, there were very few beads that were still moving around inside the tire and all the beads where completely black. Since I have used most of these beads through several tires, I originally just assumed that they had finally collected to much rubber debris on them and they needed to be thrown out and replaced. I installed the new tires and went on my merry way. Within a couple hundred miles the vibrations were back. I pulled the tires off again and the beads were all stuck to the tires and black again (in the past the beads only turn a little grey, even after use through several tires). The lube on the inside of the tire seemed to be a little heavy. I removed all the beads again and cleaned out the inside of the tire with 409 first. Even after cleaning with 409 I could still feel the lube and it was still leaving a thick black film on my fingers when I would run my hand through the inside. So I stepped it up a notch and wiped out the tire with acetone. That did the trick!

I’ve since taken a long trip on the bike without issue, seems that the beads are back to their usual self again. Since then though, one of my riding buddies (running a PR2 by the way) has mentioned a similar issue. We haven’t pulled the tires off yet to look Another scenario we came up with is tire compound. Some of the new tires coming out have the soft compounds on the sides (dual compound). We are wondering if the tires are getting hot enough (especially during the summer) that they are becoming sticky enough to grip the beads (think about how the little rocks in a parking lot stick to your tires when you pull in from a long or aggressive ride). That theory came about because with his PR2’s he only notices the issue when he has been riding hard or for long distances. We were wondering if a bit of baby powder with the beads wouldn’t fix one or both of these issues, but we haven’t tested that yet.

 

[03HiYoSilver]

Well it looks like GSL just wants to complain...no more replys.

I just replaced the PR2's a couple of months ago w/ DynaBeads. The Front had about 10k miles and the Rear had about 8k miles and would have been more if I did not drive so hard.

I took the DynaBeads out from the Old Tires and except for a few larger (smaller than BB's) balls which could have been some rubber resin that may have caused this. Other than this, they were fine and reused.

If there was any type of liquid products left or added to the tire(s), would probably cause some problems and caking.

 

[NMRoadRunner]

You answered your own question. METZLERS! :yahoo: I don't why more don't or won't run them, I like em alot!

 

[FJRGuy]

I've had no issue with my PR2s up to over 220kph (~140mph). Staticly balanced in Canuclehead's garage with stick-on weights. I'd suspect the beads. I'd heard a bit about the beads, but by the sounds of the posts on this thread, don't think I'm going to look at them. Sounds like too many grey areas.

 

[Metric]

.......sounds like too many grey areas.

Its definetly wierd science. I still haven't found anyone that can explain it in 'dumby' terms.

 

[mvette]

It could be that when the tire was mounted to the rim the installer used excessive tire lube on the inside bead to mount the tire. This also could cause the beads to clump up and not work properly.

 

[Metric]

It could be that when the tire was mounted to the rim the installer used excessive tire lube on the inside bead to mount the tire. This also could cause the beads to clump up and not work properly.

Could be, but any good tire mounting paste/liquid should dissipate pretty quickly. Even if there is enough left over to puddle in the tire, as soon as you get the tires warm one time that should go away and permeate out of the tire. I know the stuff I use (can't remember the brand right off) doesn't leave any sort of noticable film. I could see there being a film if someone was using something like dishsoap diluted in water, but it they are doing that then they will also have other more pressing issues.

 

[GSL]

Thanks Guys,

I appreciate all the replys sorry did not get back sooner busy with other issue like fixing my paint where I scratched it but wont go into that. I got a reply from innovative balancing the people who sell dynabeads it's a PDF file I would attach but can't quite figure out how to on the forum format here. Anyway they say I have an unknown mechanical problem ergo bad wheel rim, bad steering head bearings or wheel bearings,bad shaft drive and this is causing my vibration/wobble/ They call it a harmonic vibration that only happens above 70-80Mph well I just had the bike serviced for 8K/ 9+k and they went thru it and gave the machine a clean bill of health so it is none of the above. I did check I pulled off 2oz of weight from the front and only added 1oz so that might be part of the issue so I will see if adding another oz of beads makes a difference. I don't have a tire changing tool to experiment with like it sounds Metric does and my asking the shop to clean and mount my wheels with acetone and the beads also if needed well I can pretty much see them laughing at me now. If the extra oz does not fix it I will have the front busted down, beads removed and spin balanced thanks again guys for all your reply's you have been very helpful with advice and I will keep you posted on what I find also if somebody tells me how to post/attach the PDF file I will for others to read it may help somebody somewhere.

Happy Riding,

Gary

 

[Metric]

Thanks Guys,I appreciate all the replys sorry did not get back sooner busy with other issue like fixing my paint where I scratched it but wont go into that. I got a reply from innovative balancing the people who sell dynabeads it's a PDF file I would attach but can't quite figure out how to on the forum format here. Anyway they say I have an unknown mechanical problem ergo bad wheel rim, bad steering head bearings or wheel bearings,bad shaft drive and this is causing my vibration/wobble/ They call it a harmonic vibration that only happens above 70-80Mph well I just had the bike serviced for 8K/ 9+k and they went thru it and gave the machine a clean bill of health so it is none of the above. I did check I pulled off 2oz of weight from the front and only added 1oz so that might be part of the issue so I will see if adding another oz of beads makes a difference. I don't have a tire changing tool to experiment with like it sounds Metric does and my asking the shop to clean and mount my wheels with acetone and the beads also if needed well I can pretty much see them laughing at me now. If the extra oz does not fix it I will have the front busted down, beads removed and spin balanced thanks again guys for all your reply's you have been very helpful with advice and I will keep you posted on what I find also if somebody tells me how to post/attach the PDF file I will for others to read it may help somebody somewhere.

Happy Riding,

Gary

I would take what Innovative said with a grain of salt. I have attempted to find a person that actually knows what the hell they are talking about a couple of times. I ended up by passing them all together, but that is another story.

The beads work and will do a good job, but they do have their issues. I have found that 1.5oz in the front tires does a little better job then 1oz (learned from trial and error/experience).And you don't need the same amount of weight in beads as the lead weight you pulled off. Consider that the beads are closer to the outside of the circle (tire) where they have more influence then the stick on weights that were on the wheel.

If you are close enough to Kansas City to make it worth it, I'll offer to help you out. Let me know.

 

[Zorlac]

"Consider that the beads are closer to the outside of the circle (tire) where they have more influence then the stick on weights that were on the wheel."

Any closer, and they'd be outside the tire.

 

[GSL]

Thanks Metric for the offer of help but I am here in Portland Or. not that I would not mind a short ride to Kansas but I just finished a 6k ride and I my saddle sores are not quite healed yet I am going to run across town to see if I can get some more beads at a place that sells them. Have a great day and thanks again for the info.

Ride Rubber Side Down,

Gary

 

[ALFJR]

GSL, I also put PR2s and DynaBeeads on my '04 FJR. About 1500 miles prior to this, I had performed my own steering head bearings (upper and lower) repack and tightening using a torque wrench and the pricey Yammi tool, all to spec per the FSM.

My experience is rather similar to yours. I find that at speeds you mention, I begin to experience a front end/out of balance vibration, but not the wobble you describe. At first I thought things had to "settle in", but after a 3200 mile trip, I perceive matters only got marginally better.

As others have noted to, I asked the tire installer if there were "weight spots" on the PR2s, and he said no. Also, I have never had just my rims balanced (without the tires on). I have always had my wheels balanced as a rim/tire combo. I'm starting to think that a more appropriate approach to using the DynaBeads would be would be to balance just the rim, mount the PR2s, then add the Beads. Again, just a guess.

I have not take any corrective action, and probably won't until the next set of tires. The vibration I have is not that bad, and I don't plan on spending much time that far north of the speed limits. This state is hurting and they already get enough of my money, without having to give them more in the form of speeding fines. But that's a whole other discussion!

 

[Fjryder]

I had the same issue on my 08 when I installed a pair of new PR2 (no weight marks) with Dynabeads. Everything seemingly fine until about 90mph when a violent shake would begin and I would let off the gas. I tried experimenting with varying amounts of Dynabeads in the front. first 1 oz, then in about 1/4 ounce increments up to a total of 2 ounces or so. With every incremental increase in Dynabeads in the front tire, no discernible increase or decrease in headshake at about 90mph. spent the who damn afternoon trying fooling around with Dynabeads. Finally took them out and balanced the tire using stick on weights at local shop. Now front end is fine until about 110-115mph...at those speeds some shaking but nothing violent. i dont think i will try Dynabeads again. what would happen if I got a flat and had to use a sticky plug in the tire? would all the Dynabeads clump on on the sticky plug and throw my tire way off balance???

thinking about dismounting tire and re-balancing...