Shorai Battery - not good in cold

[ionbeam]

Test two.

Bike was outside all night. Temp on the bike shows 37F and the bike started on first try. No issues.

Again, I have the 18AMP battery.

The issue is not if the bike will start but if it will start normally. The Shorai batter will without a doubt start a FJR even at 0° but perhaps not start it normally. The symptom of a Shorai not starting normally would be the engine spinning at a rate not in the range of normal when the starter is pressed. Specifically, the engine would turn noticeably slower than 40 rpm until the battery warms up. Cold starting has to do with the battery being able to deliver the advertised 210/270 CCA almost instantly, not the 14/18 AH of the battery.

What everyone wants to hear from you as one of the few cold weather owners is if the engine seemed to spin at a normal rate or did it seem to turn a little slower than normal. If it did seem to turn slower, using your highly calibrated hear , was it just a tiny bit slower or noticeably slower? This is really the bottom line that has everyone's personal parts in a knot over the Shorai battery's cold weather operation. Right now You Da Man, 'cause you are our cold weather guinea pig.

 

[LAF]

Living in PA I am waiting on these cold weather reports. There is a difference from 65 in the day and then 35-45 at night. I am interested in a true cold soak. 20 in the day and low teens at night for a prolonged time. That is what will tell me if I can use this battery here in PA.

My riding partner has one in his BMW and I have been asking him and he notices no difference so far. But we are still very mild here in PA right now. I will ask him to try and listen for pitch and speed on starts. I also have to tell him he may need to warm the battery with key on for a few.

I am hoping this is just one of those things that are different due to the technology and pans out not to make a difference.

I will shoot a e-mail out to him today and see if he has noticed anything so far.

 

[HotRodZilla]

I think we need a YouTube sound clip...

 

[Rider_FJR]

Last month, I went from Chicago to Newfoundland. At that time I had a Shorai 14AMP battery. Most mornings it was in the upper 40’s and bike had a difficult time starting, I had to try 3-4 times, 45 seconds in between starts. When I was in Fundy National Park, morning temp was at 35F and it took me 10 minutes to start the bike with Shorai 14AMP battery. I called Shorai and I explained them my situation, I had documented what the temps where in morning and what I was experiencing. I now have the Shorai 18AMP battery. I had the 14AMP for 7000 miles and I can tell you that even in the low 50’s the bike did not start perfectly.

However, with the 18AMP, as of now, I do see a different, it's perfect, in my opinion. I will try to take a video and post it tomorrow morning. I will document the morning temp and start the bike.

Is there a way to attach video's to posts here?

 

[SkooterG]

Ahhhh....... good info! That's the detailed info we have been wanting all along. Thanks for posting.

 

[ionbeam]

Last month...I had a Shorai 14AMP battery. Most mornings it was in the upper 40's and bike had a difficult time starting...I called Shorai and I explained them my situation...I now have the Shorai 18AMP battery. I had the 14AMP for 7000 miles and I can tell you that even in the low 50's the bike did not start perfectly...However, with the 18AMP, as of now, I do see a different, it's perfect, in my opinion

Is there a way to attach video's to posts here?

The 14 vs 18 AH is not the difference between your cold weather starting experience IMO. AH has nothing to do with cold starting. What is important is if the 14 AH battery was manufactured before May and if the 18 AH battery was made after May. Lets call the batteries built before May Gen I and the batteries after May Gen II. There were a number of significant engineering changes made to the Gen II Shorai batteries and one of those changes was the way the batteries deliver power when cold.

You can't directly attach a video from you computer, you have to upload your video to a hosting site like YouTube, Vimeo, MyVideo, Photobucket, etc, then link to the video using the

Link icon or embed the video using the

Insert Media icon.

 

[Rider_FJR]

I got the 14AMP from motomummy on June 28th, 2011. When I spoke with Shorai tech support, I was informed that I have the GEN 1. I now have the 18AMP, GEN 2 and I was told by Shorai that I would get GEN 2. All, I can say is that this GEN 2, 18AMP works really well. And if you say that there should not be any difference between starting a bike with 14AMP and 18AMP, then there is a lot of difference between GEN 1 and GEN 2 batteries.

 

[FJRBluesman]

.....What is important is if the 14 AH battery was manufactured before May and if the 18 AH battery was made after May. Lets call the batteries built before May Gen I and the batteries after May Gen II. There were a number of significant engineering changes made to the Gen II Shorai batteries and one of those changes was the way the batteries deliver power when cold.

ionbeam - I take exception to your Gen designations. Since the new revision battery works better it should be called Gen1. The Gen2 (older version) has the electrical problems. Keep like it is with the FJR's, Gen1 no issues, Gen2 electrical issues.

 

[SkooterG]

.....What is important is if the 14 AH battery was manufactured before May and if the 18 AH battery was made after May. Lets call the batteries built before May Gen I and the batteries after May Gen II. There were a number of significant engineering changes made to the Gen II Shorai batteries and one of those changes was the way the batteries deliver power when cold.

ionbeam - I take exception to your Gen designations. Since the new revision battery works better it should be called Gen1. The Gen2 (older version) has the electrical problems. Keep like it is with the FJR's, Gen1 no issues, Gen2 electrical issues.

:rofl:

 

[Beamer Reamer]

I tried mine this morning in a temperature of 39.276 degrees. Plus or minus the .276. The bike started in around 1 second, maybe a tad more but certainly not 2 seconds.

It did seem to lag just a tad compared to normal, like maybe it cranked at 34.8 RPM's instead of 40. I let it run for awhile, killed it, and then started it again. Did about the same as the first time.

 

[odot]

All this info is worth nil till I hear how much you are paying for said batree.

 

[ionbeam]

All this info is worth nil till I hear how much you are paying for said batree.

Ballpark numbers (hope you are sitting down, and your wallet isn't prone to cramps).

14 AH - $154

18 AH - $187

In spite of this thread droning on about the possible negative aspects of the Shorai battery there are a number of positive things:

• >6 year battery life, roughly twice the average life of a PbSO4 battery
• < 1.5 lbs @ 14 AH & <2.25 lbs @ 18 AH
• so much smaller than OEM PbSO4 batteries that it opens up enough extra room for power blocks and other farkles to fit along with the battery
• can be mounted in any position, even upside down
• much higher AH capacity makes it able to withstand key OFF power drain much longer than standard PbSO4 batteries
• Much, much higher CCA ratings so cranking voltage is ~2 volts higher than OEM which really spins the starter motor allowing quicker starts
• during cold weather cranking PbSO4 batteries get weaker, the LiFe battery gets stronger
• higher cell voltage yielding a higher resting voltage - this in combination with the higher AH capacity makes the battery more tolerant of excessive electrical loading like heated gear and driving lights at low rpms
• extremely low self-discharge rate lets it stand for extended periods, in combination with the higher AH rates it holds charge even with parasitic current draw from the ECU and Datel meters connected directly to the battery
• the Gen II battery is basically flame proof, even in an accident or puncture event
• FWIW, it is a Green environmentally friendly battery and can be thrown out in the trash

The Shorai battery makes good sense for racers where pounds matter, for police aux battery, when vehicles often have long down times and trickle charging is not an option, for the early onset Alzheimer set that leaves things on with the key off, assurance that under normal driving this battery will always perform better than PbSO4 batteries, easier starts due to higher starter speed and higher coil voltage.

 

[Rider_FJR]

This video was taken this morning.

My link

37F with 18AMP.

 

[worldbound4now]

This video was taken this morning.

My link

37F with 18AMP.

Great to see. How long did you leave the key on before hitting the start key and was this your first start attempt?

 

[Rider_FJR]

Key was in for 2 seconds before hitting start. An it was the first attempt.

I see no issues.

I do have one question. Do you think the bike is off balance because a lighter battery is used?

This video was taken this morning.

My link

37F with 18AMP.

Great to see. How long did you leave the key on before hitting the start key and was this your first start attempt?

 

[FJRBluesman]

All this info is worth nil till I hear how much you are paying for said batree.

Ballpark numbers (hope you are sitting down, and your wallet isn't prone to cramps).

14 AH - $154

18 AH - $187

Motomummy14 AH - $140

18 AH - $165 (w/$5 discount when in Cart)

Key was in for 2 seconds before hitting start. An it was the first attempt.

I see no issues.

I do have one question. Do you think the bike is off balance because a lighter battery is used?

This video was taken this morning.

My link

37F with 18AMP.

Great to see. How long did you leave the key on before hitting the start key and was this your first start attempt?

Yes. The bike is now going to wear out the right side of the tire due to extra lean angle.
It maybe a tad off, but I'd bet no on would know. Like loading a saddlebag on one side only with 7 pounds of stuff. What's the diff.

All great stuff, thanks folks.

Ionbeam's positives is very good, thanks for such a comprehensive list.

Excellent thread here.

Now is the 18AH really better (and worth the $$) than the 14AH battree?

 

[Rider_FJR]

I wish we had someone with 14AMP GEN 2 to test.

All this info is worth nil till I hear how much you are paying for said batree.

Ballpark numbers (hope you are sitting down, and your wallet isn't prone to cramps).

14 AH - $154

18 AH - $187

Motomummy14 AH - $140

18 AH - $165 (w/$5 discount when in Cart)

Key was in for 2 seconds before hitting start. An it was the first attempt.

I see no issues.

I do have one question. Do you think the bike is off balance because a lighter battery is used?

This video was taken this morning.

My link

37F with 18AMP.

Great to see. How long did you leave the key on before hitting the start key and was this your first start attempt?

Yes. The bike is now going to wear out the right side of the tire due to extra lean angle.
It maybe a tad off, but I'd bet no on would know. Like loading a saddlebag on one side only with 7 pounds of stuff. What's the diff.

All great stuff, thanks folks.

Ionbeam's positives is very good, thanks for such a comprehensive list.

Excellent thread here.

Now is the 18AH really better (and worth the $$) than the 14AH battree?

 

[Rider_FJR]

The difference in price is $25.00. I would get the 18AMP.

Help the economy a little.

 

[HotRodZilla]

Alex at Mishacycles.com has the 18 A/H battery for $165 with free shipping. If you list this forum and your forum name in the notes, he takes another $5 off before charging your card.

As usual, no affiliation other than being a forum friend, and I don't get nuttin out of it. I just think its a good deal and will go this route for my battery.

 

[SkooterG]

All this info is worth nil till I hear how much you are paying for said batree.

Ballpark numbers (hope you are sitting down, and your wallet isn't prone to cramps).

14 AH - $154

18 AH - $187

In spite of this thread droning on about the possible negative aspects of the Shorai battery there are a number of positive things:

• >6 year battery life, roughly twice the average life of a PbSO4 battery
• < 1.5 lbs @ 14 AH & <2.25 lbs @ 18 AH
• so much smaller than OEM PbSO4 batteries that it opens up enough extra room for power blocks and other farkles to fit along with the battery
• can be mounted in any position, even upside down
• much higher AH capacity makes it able to withstand key OFF power drain much longer than standard PbSO4 batteries
• Much, much higher CCA ratings so cranking voltage is ~2 volts higher than OEM which really spins the starter motor allowing quicker starts
• during cold weather cranking PbSO4 batteries get weaker, the LiFe battery gets stronger
• higher cell voltage yielding a higher resting voltage - this in combination with the higher AH capacity makes the battery more tolerant of excessive electrical loading like heated gear and driving lights at low rpms
• extremely low self-discharge rate lets it stand for extended periods, in combination with the higher AH rates it holds charge even with parasitic current draw from the ECU and Datel meters connected directly to the battery
• the Gen II battery is basically flame proof, even in an accident or puncture event
• FWIW, it is a Green environmentally friendly battery and can be thrown out in the trash

The Shorai battery makes good sense for racers where pounds matter, for police aux battery, when vehicles often have long down times and trickle charging is not an option, for the early onset Alzheimer set that leaves things on with the key off, assurance that under normal driving this battery will always perform better than PbSO4 batteries, easier starts due to higher starter speed and higher coil voltage.

Geese-Louise! Do you own stock in the company? Ok, ok, I give. This battery is better than sliced bread!

I don't like to be a 'beta-tester' and adopter of early technology. My father buying first year models of cars way back when that turned into turgid POS's cured me of that. (Hence why I couldn't pull the trigger on a 2003 FJR) Still, the Shorai has always had my interest. I still have three 'issues' I need to work through: 1) the freaking price! Ouch! I can get a Motobatt, for what? Like $80? 2) I typically get 4-6 years life out of my cheaper batteries using a tender fairly religiously. And 3) the fact that leaving on a significant draw item (like the lights) for an extended time will kill this battery and you won't be able to bring it back. Now I can't remember the last time I ever did something like that, but boy-o-boy it would be an expensive mistake and one I would be sure to make if I shilled out the $$$$$ for this battery.

Still......