Shorai battery

[Chuck35]

Why not a battery heater? Instead of wasting the juice, just heat the battery externally for a few seconds.

 

[HotRodZilla]

So, almost twice the cost of an OEM battery, and marginally better performance in limited conditions. Supposedly horrendous performance in the cold. All to save 10 lbs and add 5-10 minutes to a cold morning start time?? I just don't get it.

 

[garyahouse]

So, almost twice the cost of an OEM battery, and marginally better performance in limited conditions. Supposedly horrendous performance in the cold. All to save 10 lbs and add 5-10 minutes to a cold morning start time?? I just don't get it.

Zilla.

You point out the obvious. But I'm glad you did. I would say you are right. To help us all, "get it," as you wisely pointed out, we know our forum is a work in progress. Much of the stuff we buy, use and test out, more often than not, doesn't come with a lot of information about it's quality/performance. Without the forum, we're at the mercy of company PR departments, who ALWAYS paint a beautiful rosey image of their product.

So why would we consider a new technology or a new idea? In my case, I love to experiment. But for the rest of us,many of us have done this with a hundred different products and have documented our findings on these pages. You have done so as well. Together, we form a collective that gives all of us a better education about the products that work, and THE PRODUCTS THAT DON'T WORK. So, for this battery, my posts here are just to help us all to see what the December 2012 version of Shorai's 18ah battery is made of. No doubt it's a better than it may have been in the past, and it's probably not as good as it will be in the future. But at least we've got a frame of reference. Actual numbers and temperatures and performance in an FJR.

It's reasonable to assume that any one of us could have bought this battery, stuck it in our FJR, and had very similar results. I'm testing it here to do what our forum has always done... to provide information about a product and how it works in the bike that we all own.

Forgive my ramblings here, Zilla. I know you were referring to not getting why we'd even consider such a battery. But that's exactly why I'm testing it to this extent. Maybe someone wants a battery that doesn't lose its charge and requires no battery tender. Maybe they have a fairly warm garage and this battery would work fine. Maybe they live in Miami, where it doesn't get as cold as it does in my neck of the woods. Whatever. But at least now, we've have a little more info to make an informed decision.

Anyway, this morning it's 31 outside and 41 in the garage. Today's test will be 5 degrees colder than yesterday.

Today's experiment was really cool. For the first time, I can genuinely and consclusively agree with Shorai's (and some forum member's advice) that this battery indeed gets stronger as it is USED. I stood next to the bike and took this picture:

The temp is showing 45, but that's becuase I had the themometer in my pocket for a couple minutes while I was opening the garage door. Bottom right corner shows the 24 hour range... I had a high of 63 yesterday (in the garage) and a low of 41. I assure you, the Shorai was exactly 41 degrees.

1st attempt

Voltmeter at rest 13.3

Voltmeter after key on: 12.8

Voltmeter during cranking: began about 9.0, dropped to 8.0 or so

Crank duration: about 6 seconds

Results: failed

-- cranking speed slow but steady, did not decrease in speed during cranking

2nd attempt (about 1 minute later with the key on and only parking lights on)

Voltmeter with key on: 12.8

Voltmeter during cranking: began about 9, dropped to 7.5 or so

Crank duration: about 6 seconds

Results: failed.

--cranked at a slightly faster speed than last time, no decrease in speed during cranking

3rd attempt (about 1 minute later with the key on and only parking lights on)

Voltmeter with key on: 12.9

Voltmeter during cranking: began about 10, dropped to 9.3 or so

Crank duration: about 2.5 seconds

Results: started

--cranked at a notably higher speed, but still slower than it would be on a warm day... about the same speed as my worn out battery did.

4th attempt (about 1 minute later, I only allowed the bike to run about 5 seconds, still with key on as before)

Voltmeter after key on: 13.0

Voltmeter during cranking: began about 10.9, dropped to 10.2 or so

Crank duration: about 1 second

Results: started

--cranked notably faster speed this time, I could REALLY hear the difference. Started with authority.

I could hear the difference in cranking speed each time I did this today. Make a note of this, this is important:

The total amount of time duration from first crank to start was about 2 minutes and 8 seconds...

... adding up the time I waited.

Gary

crow rider #44

 

[Bustanut joker]

21 in Pontiac right now Gary, light breeze but sunny ... Roll her up here and give it a go!

 

[ionbeam]

Cold weather testing in Spring Hill, Florida = oxymoron. :lol:

Still, we are seeing real life testing at 40º. Every once and a while even this central FL area can see 20s outside. It is important that the battery gets fully charged between tests. Resting voltage is misleading about the charge capacity; being 0.25 volts low indicates a serious state of discharge.

 

[garyahouse]

Excellent thought, Ionbeam. Took the bike out for a couple hours yesterday and can conclude that the battery was in fact at full charge. Let us also remember that one of the plusses about this battery is that it doesn't lose it's charge as it sits in the garage for a few days... like a normal battery might.

Gary

crow eater #44

 

[HotRodZilla]

Excellent thought, Ionbeam. Took the bike out for a couple hours yesterday and can conclude that the battery was in fact at full charge. Let us also remember that one of the plusses about this battery is that it doesn't lose it's charge as it sits in the garage for a few days... like a normal battery might.

Gary

That's IF it's in a bike that doesn't draw from the battery when turned off. The FJR has a small continuous draw for stuff like the clock, so any battery will eventually run down if left in it too long without either the bike being ridden, or plugged in to a charger.

BUT...it's good to see what it's gonna do in real world conditions. I don't think its realistic to think the bike's gonna be on a charger every night in a warm garage. I know mine won't.

That's part of the reason I wrote off this battery a long time ago. Although I appreciate your faith in continuous testing. Maybe I'm too much like my dad, but if I'm gonna pay twice as much for something, I wanna see twice the reward.

Since all the battery's gotta do is start the bike, and the OEM will last for at least 5 years, by my thought, this battery better last at least 10.

I actually see it being functional for racing applications, but not really practical for everyday street use.

 

[garyahouse]

Thanks for the input Z. I'm wondering how much the clock and/or whatever... will drain after a day or a week. Anyway, I'll be sure to run the bike the day before any tests I make. Keep in mind that cold mornings like today don't happen too often around here. For the next week, at least, temps won't get much below about 45 or so around here, according to the local weather boys. It's usually about 10 degrees warmer in the garage. But it'll get good and cold soon enough and i'll post up some more then.

Gary

crow master #44

 

[garyahouse]

21 in Pontiac right now Gary, light breeze but sunny ... Roll her up here and give it a go!

Yeah... then I could do some REAL world cold weather testing. This getting up at 7 am on the weekends to test out the Shorai is fer da birds. You do know that the Exalto has a pretty good snow rating as well?? As long as I keep the front wheel in the air, I should be able to navigate the snowy roads pretty well. I'm sure I can make it by Monday night or so. Uh jist fer fun, how fer is Owosso from Grand Blanc? I used to live there (just west of 75) in an apartment complex around 1992.

Gary

the crowmeister #44

 

[TomInPA]

Thanks for the input Z. I'm wondering how much the clock and/or whatever... will drain after a day or a week. Anyway, I'll be sure to run the bike the day before any tests I make. Keep in mind that cold mornings like today don't happen too often around here. For the next week, at least, temps won't get much below about 45 or so around here, according to the local weather boys. It's usually about 10 degrees warmer in the garage. But it'll get good and cold soon enough and i'll post up some more then.

Gary

Talk about a torture test...I left the bike in the garage November 15 after a short ride. I might get back in May to ride it East. Think it will start?

 

[Hornet Pilot]

One subtle thing you all are overlooking is the 10# impact of the lighter battery on the CG and some what the handling of the bike. I know when I fill the fuel tank there is definitely a 'top heavy' feel compared to say a half tank of fuel. 10# is what, about 1 1/4 gal of equivalent fuel? Feel the difference when trying to pick the bike up off the side stand with a full tank of fuel vs. a half tank! With the battery located quite high above the CG it's weight is not insignificant! Just a thought!

 

[BikerGeek99]

With the battery located quite high above the CG it's weight is not insignificant! Just a thought!

Doesn't mean a damn thing when the bike won't start, though, other than that's 10 less pounds to push.

I, too, experimented with a Shorai, the 18ah. I yanked it and it's been sitting on a bench in the garage for ... uh ... a while. The final straw was when the bike had been sitting for a couple of weeks, plugged into a Battery Tender, and I was going to ride to work. Temperature that day was somewhere in the low 40's or so. Bike would not start. I ordered a Westco from Bike Effects that day.

No way in hell would I ever endorse a Shorai battery.

 

[Hornet Pilot]

I wonder why your experience is so different from others on here (Tomin CA, garyahouse)???

 

[TomInPA]

I wonder why your experience is so different from others on here (Tomin CA, garyahouse)???

How so? I have had only one non-start in cold weather that reset the clocks. I recently moved to Pittsburgh and all I'm saying is that this battery will never be suitable here. Name one person who has ridden in sustained cold weather with a Shorai without trouble. Other than that, I really enjoyed the higher charge state, fast recharge, lightweight and reliability as long as it was above 38 degrees F.

 

[Bustanut joker]

Anal fleas are a real pain in the ass this time of year..

 

[Hornet Pilot]

Ah! My mistake. I thought you had cold weather experience that indicated it started just fine with the Shorai. I guess when the temps get down in the 30's is where it becomes marginal.

 

[garyahouse]

With the battery located quite high above the CG it's weight is not insignificant! Just a thought!

Doesn't mean a damn thing when the bike won't start, though, other than that's 10 less pounds to push.

I, too, experimented with a Shorai, the 18ah. I yanked it and it's been sitting on a bench in the garage for ... uh ... a while. The final straw was when the bike had been sitting for a couple of weeks, plugged into a Battery Tender, and I was going to ride to work. Temperature that day was somewhere in the low 40's or so. Bike would not start. I ordered a Westco from Bike Effects that day.

No way in hell would I ever endorse a Shorai battery.

Somebody's not a happy camper.

That's exactly why I'm doing this post. If ANYBODY on this forum is going to cough up 180 bucks for one of these things, he deserves to know exactly what this battery is capable of, and under exactly what conditions. Those of us who've done it thus far have literally rolled the dice, as the information available up 'til now has been marginal. Biker geek, the information you've provided is so much like what I've read over and over on this forum and others like it. It was aproximately such and such a temperature and the bike wouldn't start. So what does that tell me? I have had so many questions in the past. Under what conditions? How many attempts were made to start the bike? What accessories were left on before and during the start attempts? How long in between attempts? I could go on: you see my point. I want to see if I can answer some of these questions. Needless to say, at this point, the Shorai isn't going to be for everybody. But at least we'll all have some numbers established... and I can work through eliminating some variables so that we've got some accurate and specific information with which to make an informed decision.

What I'm seeing is that this battery performs very differently than any other battery that we're familiar with. Every time I crank the engine when it's cold, the battery gets stronger. On my 5th start the other day, it was cranking the engine like it was 70 degrees out. That was just a few minutes after it would barely turn the engine over on my first attempt. I have some serious experimenting to do.

By the way, I could use some advice here.

When the bike does start on these cold mornings, I shut it off after about 5 seconds and begin the waiting process to try it again. Should I continue to do this, or change my precedure? Maybe I shouldn't let the bike run more than a second or so... to prevent the battery from getting charged by the bike's charging system???

Gary

king of the crow #44

ps. Just thought i'd post up this advice: Shorai's are nothing new. Beginning a couple years ago, our forum has covered the subject of Shorai batteries a number of times. A google search of Shorai/FJR forum turns up a bunch, but none more informative (gotta pick your way through our usual FJR banter) than this one with 122 posts: CLICKY

 

[Fontanaman]

In bought Feb 2010, I bought my new FJR, produced in 2/2009 meaning it sat around for a while. I keep my stock battery, on a tender always, and it is still in fine shape. I have a load tester I use periodically to test the battery.

The only reason I would want a Shorai is to create some space to install a fuse box in the battery box but not at the expense of cold weather performance at twice the cost of a conventional battery. The weight savings argument is kinda odd, as most of us could afford to loose a couple of pounds. For those of you who don't, good for you.

A Shorai might work if all your riding is within 20 degrees of the equator.

 

[Bustanut joker]

Don't ask me how the PO Shaved weight..

 

[Fontanaman]

Don't ask me how the PO Shaved weight..

How did the PO shave weight?