Smokers (BBQ - not grilling)

[Fred W]

Sorry, I meant to describe what happens after unwrapping:

First thing youll notice is the internal temp takes a dive from 205F down below 200 as the outside liquid evaporates. So I leave it unwrapped on the pit, or gas grille or even in the kitchen oven until the temp climbs back up to 203F or so. That takes about 1/2 hour or 45 mins. The goal is to dry the bark. The temp climbing back up tells you the liquid has evaporated, and thats what you are after in that stage.

You could also just leave it wrapped and allow it to rest for an hour but then the bark is a bit softer. The meat tastes just as good either way. Ive done it both ways, and it isnt bad eating without drying, its just traditional to have a harder bark.

And yes, when you wrap the brisket with a cup of broth you can stick the thermo probe right through the foil (on top) and it doesnt leak much steam. Ive not been very successful trying to wrap around an already inserted probe, so just pull it out and then stick it back in.

 

[08FJR4ME]

Off topic but I made Bacon honey corn muffins on the grill yesterday from scratch. Came out great but needed a bit more bacon in them.

Dave

 

[Bounce]

When the internal reaches 205F (usually takes less than an hour) I unwrap the meat and toss it back on the smoker to firm up the bark. Retain the Au Jus from the foil pack as that is the best tasting sauce you could ever ask for.

I recently used the Au Jus from a sous vide steak. Mixed it about 50/50 with Sweet Baby Ray's original sauce. Cut the sweetness to something a little more reasonable and made a great sauce to put into a table-side squeeze bottle.

 

[Knifemaker]

Went to a BBQ cook-off. Some good stuff, oddly high priced ($11 for a brisket sandwich!!) I think some of the proceeds were going to a charity, but it seems they just jacked up their regular prices to cover it. Biggest line was at SugarFire, which is a local BBQ chain and it seems selling Q for a bit less than others.

No show from Pappy's Smokehouse, who makes the best ribs I've had at a comercial establishment.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pappy%27s_Smokehouse

Did see a little smoker I think Fred would be interested in:

Finished up the last of my pulled pork friday, so minus the 1-1/2 pounds I gave my neighbor, I had lunch for two weeks from what I had left.

 

[Fred W]

Yeah, nice pit there. Not quite ready to go back to work yet to pay for it though...

Funny, the Wikipedia link says Pappy’s smokes their ribs for 14 hours?

I’m thinking that maybe they confused the ribs with pulled pork or brisket. Never heard of anyone ever cooking ribs that long. Not even Beef ribs.

 

[Fred W]

Friday, cooked up two 9 lb. pork picnic roasts and three 2 lb. hunks of beef brisket flat. I picked up the little flats at Walmart on a whim to throw on the smoker with the two shoulders. Set up the UDS at dawn with mixed lump and briquettes along with hickory wood chunks, and had everything loaded on the pit before 6 AM. Ran at a steady 235F dialed into the DigiQ stoker. It was running so steady I was able to leave the house to run some errands for a couple of hours in the morning.

Pulled the flats off at around 4PM and wrapped them in foil with a cup of Harpoon Oktoberfest beer (didnt have any beef stock) and just tossed the foil pack back on the smoker since it was still cooking along with the pork shoulders still in their stall. After about an hour the temp probe said done, so I took the foil pack off the smoker and stuck it in the kitchen oven at its lowest setting (170F) to hold for dinner. I didnt bother putting the brisket back on the smoker to dry the bark as they are so small I didnt want to risk drying out the meat too much.

My son, daughter-in-law and I polished off one of the two pounders for dinner Friday and I packaged up the rest for the coming week. Pork took until 8PM to finish cooking and I pulled it that night before heading to bed. Packaged that up into several heavy foil packs the following morning, one of which we had for dinner last night on some crusty rolls I baked in the afternoon. Man was that good!

The remaining 2 hunks of brisket and packets of pulled pork are all going in a cooler with us when we drive out to Michigan tomorrow morning to visit our kids out there and help celebrate our grandsons first birthday.

I have a few photos of this but cant seem to get photobucket to host them correctly off my iPad. It keeps making the extension *.jpeg instead of jpg, for some reason, and this forum software wont accept that. Ill have to figure that out later.

 

[Knifemaker]

I saw the 14 hour line and wondered about that too, thinking yes, it's just a typo. Their ribs are very tender and juicy. Lines start early and he has several smokers going. I'm not sure what temperatures they are cooking at however.

I did find this paragraph online:

"You can get very juicy ribs by cooking them at 135 degrees, but making them tender takes two or three days. At 160 degrees, you get tender ribs in 10 to 12 hours. At 170 to 180 degrees, the meat is noticeably dryer, but the cooking time is a more manageable 6 to 8 hours"*

Cooked at 150-160 a smoker filled with baby backs could take 12-14 hours. Never thought to ask them about this. Cooking that long takes "low and slow" to a spot I'd not heard of. So perhaps that's their secret?

Edit-- likely not. Found another article that says the ribs are cooked for four hours:

"We thought the nations top Memphis BBQ would actually be in Memphis inside Tennessees borders at the very least. We were wrong. And Pappys Smokehouse has the rack to prove it. Pappys pitmaster, Skip Steele, smokes slabs of dry rubbed ribs for 4 hours over apple and cherry wood, giving the pork a sweeter smoke. His ribs have racked up the honors, including Food Networks Top 5 BBQ Ribs in America. Its just one of the reasons why theres a line out the door each day. And when that last slab is pulled out of the smoker, Pappys closes up shop, which means no ribs for you."**

So, without confirmation from Pappy's themselves, I'd believe the 4 hours is the most likely.

Enough so I edited the Wiki page.

*https://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/30/dining/30curious.html

** https://www.goldbelly.com/pappys-smokehouse

 

[Fred W]

Cooking at such a low temp would seem to be a recipe for botulism spore generation.

 

[Bounce]

Friday, cooked up two 9 lb. pork picnic roasts and three 2 lb. hunks of beef brisket flat. I picked up the little flats at Walmart on a whim to throw on the smoker with the two shoulders. Set up the UDS at dawn with mixed lump and briquettes along with hickory wood chunks, and had everything loaded on the pit before 6 AM. Ran at a steady 235F dialed into the DigiQ stoker. It was running so steady I was able to leave the house to run some errands for a couple of hours in the morning.
Pulled the flats off at around 4PM and wrapped them in foil with a cup of Harpoon Oktoberfest beer (didnt have any beef stock) and just tossed the foil pack back on the smoker since it was still cooking along with the pork shoulders still in their stall. After about an hour the temp probe said done, so I took the foil pack off the smoker and stuck it in the kitchen oven at its lowest setting (170F) to hold for dinner. I didnt bother putting the brisket back on the smoker to dry the bark as they are so small I didnt want to risk drying out the meat too much.

My son, daughter-in-law and I polished off one of the two pounders for dinner Friday and I packaged up the rest for the coming week. Pork took until 8PM to finish cooking and I pulled it that night before heading to bed. Packaged that up into several heavy foil packs the following morning, one of which we had for dinner last night on some crusty rolls I baked in the afternoon. Man was that good!

The remaining 2 hunks of brisket and packets of pulled pork are all going in a cooler with us when we drive out to Michigan tomorrow morning to visit our kids out there and help celebrate our grandsons first birthday.

I have a few photos of this but cant seem to get photobucket to host them correctly off my iPad. It keeps making the extension *.jpeg instead of jpg, for some reason, and this forum software wont accept that. Ill have to figure that out later.

I read all of that and came away with: You go to bed around 8pm?

 

[Knifemaker]

Cooking at such a low temp would seem to be a recipe for botulism spore generation.

I'm not sure I'd be comfortable eating ribs cooked at 135 F, but anything over 165 I'd be OK with. Really have no idea how much better ribs would be compared to cooking at 225. I know folks that smoke meats around 180. I was always under the impression anything over 165 for more than ten minutes will kill off most of the bad stuff.

Botulism is a fairly rare event in normal cooking, very few cases reported each year. But stuff like salmonella or E. coli I'm more concerned over. Folks cook meat in sous vide pots at 135 - 145 and don't seem too worried about botulism. Guessing there's some guide for temperature to time to help eliminate possible bacterial infestation.

I know properly made brines, and marinades can kill off bacteria on meat. I'd also wonder if the acidic property of smoke itself can combat the onset of something like botulism?

 

[Blind Squirrel]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_(cooking)

 

[Bounce]

Sous vide swaps temp for time. Lower target temps (usually set to the "doneness" temp) over extended times in sealed-and-submerged bags kills stuff by longer exposure.

 

[Knifemaker]

Sous vide swaps temp for time. Lower target temps (usually set to the "doneness" temp) over extended times in sealed-and-submerged bags kills stuff by longer exposure.

Which I don't see any difference with that and a rack of ribs wrapped in foil in an oven (or smoker) at 160 F for 8 hours. Or not wrapped for that matter, if the only air entering the cooking chamber passes through the much much hotter firebox.

I do follow food safety practices but have never been worried about bacteria with meats I have cooked. Except for poultry... I read over 80% of the ground turkey tested contained salmonella, and over half the raw chicken tested. So I cook the shit out of those, or use an accurate thermometer to make sure.

 

[Fred W]

My concern would be cooking raw, uncured meat at a temperature of 135F as it would spend too much time in the danger zone of bacterial growth. That is said to be when the meat is at between 78 to 95 degrees. You dont want to spend a long time in that zone as it gives the bacteria more time to propagate and reproduce.

That is the reasoning behind smoking meats at 200F or higher, to transition the danger zone quickly as possible without burning the outside of it. Yes, the bacteria would eventually be pasteurized, but spores do not get killed even at a 205F internal temp, and then you ingest them. At least this is what Ive read in some charcuterie and cold smoking references.

On a lighter note, I just got a link to this in some email spam. Not big on the InDian brand of motorcycles, but this one is pretty damn cool!

https://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/indian-and-traeger-team-up-for-wood-fired-custom/

 

[El Toro]

Its awful hard to get the collagen to give it up below 180 F. At 180 F most beef will be fork pullable after the interior temp has been at 180 for 10+ hours, but sometimes it can take 20. Smoking ribs isnt about dissolving collagen though. Brisket is.

FWIW, Im with Fred on the 135 idea. Maybe for something really salty it would be Ok. It sounds more like novelty than good eats.

 

[Fred W]

Ive run some unintentional experiments on fast cooking pork ribs before I understood the correct way to barbecue and I can report they were quite tough and thoroughly disgusting. So while the pork ribs may not need as much collagen breakdown as shoulders or beef ribs and brisket they definitely improve with some.

Since the thinner pork ribs are hard to measure an accurate internal temps on, we are kind of guessing what the meat temps are based on how tender it has become, but I think we do just reach those temps sooner on the lower, bone-riddled mass of pork ribs than on the bigger hunks.

In any case, I do love me some good BBQ pork ribs!

 

[Fred W]

Friday, cooked up two 9 lb. pork picnic roasts and three 2 lb. hunks of beef brisket flat. I picked up the little flats at Walmart on a whim to throw on the smoker with the two shoulders. Set up the UDS at dawn with mixed lump and briquettes along with hickory wood chunks, and had everything loaded on the pit before 6 AM. Ran at a steady 235F dialed into the DigiQ stoker. It was running so steady I was able to leave the house to run some errands for a couple of hours in the morning.Pulled the flats off at around 4PM and wrapped them in foil with a cup of Harpoon Oktoberfest beer (didnt have any beef stock) and just tossed the foil pack back on the smoker since it was still cooking along with the pork shoulders still in their stall. After about an hour the temp probe said done, so I took the foil pack off the smoker and stuck it in the kitchen oven at its lowest setting (170F) to hold for dinner. I didnt bother putting the brisket back on the smoker to dry the bark as they are so small I didnt want to risk drying out the meat too much.

My son, daughter-in-law and I polished off one of the two pounders for dinner Friday and I packaged up the rest for the coming week. Pork took until 8PM to finish cooking and I pulled it that night before heading to bed. Packaged that up into several heavy foil packs the following morning, one of which we had for dinner last night on some crusty rolls I baked in the afternoon. Man was that good!

The remaining 2 hunks of brisket and packets of pulled pork are all going in a cooler with us when we drive out to Michigan tomorrow morning to visit our kids out there and help celebrate our grandsons first birthday.

I have a few photos of this but cant seem to get photobucket to host them correctly off my iPad. It keeps making the extension *.jpeg instead of jpg, for some reason, and this forum software wont accept that. Ill have to figure that out later.

I read all of that and came away with: You go to bed around 8pm?

Haha... sometimes, but no, that wasn’t what I meant. The meat was done at 8PM. I pulled it (shredded it) before I went to bed several hours later. It was still hot as hell two hours after removing from the pit.

 

[El Toro]

Ive run some unintentional experiments on fast cooking pork ribs before I understood the correct way to barbecue and I can report they were quite tough and thoroughly disgusting. So while the pork ribs may not need as much collagen breakdown as shoulders or beef ribs and brisket they definitely improve with some.
Since the thinner pork ribs are hard to measure an accurate internal temps on, we are kind of guessing what the meat temps are based on how tender it has become, but I think we do just reach those temps sooner on the lower, bone-riddled mass of pork ribs than on the bigger hunks.

In any case, I do love me some good BBQ pork ribs!

I do not consider myself to be good at smoking pork ribs. It is one of my disappointments. I think I've mastered brisket, shoulder, chicken and duck, prime rib, etc. The other disappointment (besides pork ribs) is turkey. Those two food items are beyond my skill set. I could make it a quest ... but I'm happier leaving these to others.

 

[Bounce]

I've been doing turkey breasts successfully by setting them on top of one of those "beer can" stands. Most often with either nothing in the can stand or with a small amount of apple juice. Always been great. Brisket is still my windmill.

 

[Knifemaker]

I've only done a brisket twice. First time, came out nice and juicy, but I over salted it during the dry brine.(used it in some chili later and it was great) The other brisket was so-so. Did cook a turkey roast and a turkey breast. The roast was a bit "too smokey" but the breast was excellent. Much better than the one done in the oven.

However, the reason I got into smoking was to do ribs. I started with Saint Louis cuts, tried the 3-2-1 method. Was OK, but eventually just did the 2-3-1 method instead, (no foil, 2 hours bone side up, 3 hours bone side down and sprayed with apple juice, then 1 hour slathered with sauce.) Much better this way. Changed from marinating with Italian dressing to dry brining over night and using a rub before cooking. Used different woods, but now use applewood exclusively for ribs.

Also switched from St. Louis cuts to baby backs. The Louie's I think have a bit more of a "rib taste" but the baby's win for having much more meat. I still spray them "occasionally" with apple juice, but I no longer sauce them. All ribs are dry brined with Kosher salt overnight (and salt is premeasured into a bowl to avoid the above brisket incident ) They are then coated with a non salt rub (A slight variation of Meatheads Memphis Dust) and placed on my rib rack and smoked for 4 hours at 225-235F.

After pulling them from the smoker they are individually wrapped with two sheets of heavy duty aluminum foil, (and either sprayed with the apple juice then, or mopped with BBQ sauce) The ribs we plan to eat that day are put in the oven still wrapped @ 175 (not for more than 90 minutes) and the others are left out to cool some before being put in the freezer. As mentioned awhile back, both me and the wife believe the ones reheated from the freezer later are better.

I usually pick out the baby backs so they are all about the same weight, trying to avoid any much under 4 lbs. I did cook some local ribs, which were smaller and had a bit less meat on them, but they didn't taste any different than the cryo bag ones I get at Walmart, which were much cheaper

I'm pretty sure the 14+ hour dry brine and a good rub are the key to great ribs. As Fred pointed out, you can't really use a temperature probe on a rack of ribs, and although using a rib rack precludes doing the "bend test" I'm pretty confident that my 4 hour time limit works just fine. (This is four hours after the smoker had attained at least 200 degrees)

I do want to add that when I first got into this, I remember reading at "Amazing Ribs" that I should use a scale and measure out the wood I use. I pretty much said F that. I go through a lot of wood in my reverse offset. I use lump charcoal to get bed of coals going, but from there I pretty much just keep adding wood chunks, and I'm very liberal with them. I'd guess I burn up 7-8 pounds of applewood for a 4 hour smoke. (Never really kept count here, could be more) And never had anything yet that I thought was "too smokey", other the the aforementioned turkey roast, which actually didn't taste "too smokey", just tasted more like ham than turkey.

At some point I'll likely build a V shaped grate like Fred did and start using splits of wood instead of chunks.

I likely will try another brisket soon, but the household is pretty much addicted to baby backs now