Smokers (BBQ - not grilling)

[gixxerjasen]

Yep, he's got a big trailer style pit. I'm in love with the square firebox because he places his next sticks on the top of it and they are dry and hot when he tosses them in and begin burning immediately. Some will even catch fire on top of the firebox if he isn't careful. It's a nice setup and way more than I'll ever be able to have or need.

 

[Knifemaker]

Yeah, I got a nice big square box on mine. I took a temp reading once while doing a smoke...810 degree F. Could do a pizza on it I bet. I stack up chunks there and have seen them start to burn.

 

[Bounce]

I've got a friend who burns sticks only, and will proudly show you the pretty much clear smoke coming out of his smoker. Food that comes off of it is darn good too.

I bet it is good. From what I've read, the "creosote" issue only seems to crop up on folks that aren't managing their fires properly. If you are doing it right, you won't have a problem with getting a "creosote taste" on your food.

The key seems to be maintaining a HOT and well ventilated fire.

Hot doesn't work when running a low-and-slow smoker like a kamodo. 12 hours at 225 for a pork shoulder is about right.

I guess it depends on if you're grilling or smoking or doing offsets.

 

[Fred W]

I think running a "hot fire" is a relative thing. What you do not want to do is choke the fire inlet air down to the point that the wood is smoldering. That is what causes the creosote, and I'm starting to believe that this has been my problem with my UDS all along. The UDS is so tight, and the heat being directly below the cooking grid, you have to choke the fire air to keep the temps down, like you said.

When smoking with just wood, you want any wood to be burning, not smoldering, and just keep the size of the fire down by feeding less fuel to keep the heat output from running away. It means tending the fire a lot more. Many bigger pits have two air inlets to the firebox, one below the grate to feed the fire, and one above the fire to mix with the smoke and heat and lower the temperature of the gas going into the cooking chamber.

Pitmasters will tell you that you need to keep the smoke moving well through the cooking area too. They say that stale, slow smoke is bad. Well moving, light blue or invisible smoke is good. At least that is what I am learning.

 

[Knifemaker]

^ Yes what Fred said...."HOT" being subjective, I did take it to mean having your fire hot enough so the wood burns, not "bakes".

They also said to build a fire to match your smoker, in the case of a drum smoker where the fire is right below the food, you don't want to build too big a fire that requires you to starve it of air. It may mean spending more time adding smaller amounts of fuel as opposed to stuffing the firebox so you don't have to.

My FB does have two vents...one on the side and one on the door just under the grate...I've found keeping the lower one open and adjusting with the other seems to work best. Keeping the smoke flowing (even if it's basicly clear) not only prevents "stale" smoke, but also if you do get some wood that takes more time to catch, the food is subjected to the "bad smoke" for a much shorter time.

I do seem to be using a lot of fuel, but being new at this I have no reference on what's really too much. For a six hour smoke on the ribs, I go through 1-1/2 large bags of charcoal and about 3/4 of a 5 gallon bucket of large wood chunks.

 

[Bounce]

WOW! That IS a lot. I'll use one "chimney" of chunk charcoal and may need to add some later when doing a 12+ hour smoke of larger hunks of animal. For the smoke I add about 2 large handfuls of seasoning wood (soaked in water for at least 30 minutes before, adding it to the top of the burning coals right before putting on said animal chunks).

I'd swag that I get at least 4 chimneys from 1 large bag.

(I don't used that processed charcoal. It will last longer but it changes the flavor.)

 

[Knifemaker]

I've been using Kingsford "Lump Briquettes"

https://www.kingsford.com/products/100-natural-lump-briquets/#PBuKmYVWAME9PuX2.97

I think last time I did notice I used less fuel. I do have a bag of regular lump charcoal that I have mixed in durring a smoke. I'm going to try and use more wood and less charcoal on my next cook. I do know with a reverse flow it takes longer to get the food grate up to tempature. I can see how a drum or vertical smoker might use less fuel..

 

[Fred W]

Well, this weekend I'm going to try using Kingsford Apple wood briquettes.

I've got a couple racks of baby backs and a ~ 6 lb pork loin that I'll be smoke roasting, so it won't be a terribly long cook, maybe 5-6 hours total.

I think the offset smokers are always going to use more fuel due to the indirect nature of the heat and the massive amount of surface area that is losing it constantly throughout the smoke. You'd have to insulate the cooking chamber and the fire box to come anywhere near the fuel efficiency of a vertical cooker. But with the increased efficiency comes the conundrum of having to choke the fire down to a smolder.

 

[gixxerjasen]

If you are using low fire temp and slow air movement, like the minion method, you'll use less fuel. If you use hot firebox with lots of air movement, you'll user more fuel. Easy peasy, just depends on what kind of smoker you have, what you are cooking and how you are cooking it. My UDS is low and slow, but my smoke is not clear for sure. Far from ideal, but also far from expensive.

 

[Bounce]

Found some light reading

https://www.bonappetit.com/test-kitchen/cooking-tips/article/everything-you-need-to-know-about-charcoal-from-briquettes-to-binchotan

https://virtualweberbullet.com/charcoal.html

 

[Fred W]

That second link seems to be a more balanced look at the briquette vs lump debate. People get all worked up about the "unnatural additives" in briquettes, but there are no additives that are actually harmful. The coal (mineral) fractions may not give you the flavor that you are after, but it is not any more harmful than the byproducts of burning wood (smoke).

I get that being frugal some folks want to use as little fuel to cook as possible. But I'm thinking the most frugal could cut down a tree, dry the wood, and then cook with that for free (except for the labor).

 

[08FJR4ME]

Well, this weekend I'm going to try using Kingsford Apple wood briquettes. I've got a couple racks of baby backs and a ~ 6 lb pork loin that I'll be smoke roasting, so it won't be a terribly long cook, maybe 5-6 hours total.

I think the offset smokers are always going to use more fuel due to the indirect nature of the heat and the massive amount of surface area that is losing it constantly throughout the smoke. You'd have to insulate the cooking chamber and the fire box to come anywhere near the fuel efficiency of a vertical cooker. But with the increased efficiency comes the conundrum of having to choke the fire down to a smolder.

Fred,

I used the applewood briquettes a couple of weeks ago and they were great. I also used some apple wood to go along with them but the flaver was definately more noticable.

Dave

 

[Fred W]

Thanks, Dave. I do have some apple wood chunks I could supplement with. Living in a town with 4 active orchards has its advantages.

I read on the bag (I know, huh? What kind'a guy reads the instructions?) that they recommend enhancing the apple smoke flavor by adding unlit briquettes throughout the cooking. Since I'll be using a modified minion method with a good sized charcoal basket (12 x 12 x 6") I should be getting smoke from unlit coals all the way through the load. How many 1/2 cu ft. re-loads it takes to go 5-6 hours is the question.

I'm considering not adding any wood this time just to get a feel for how much flavor the briquettes give on their own. The Kingsford flavor wood series is not that much more than the basic blue, so I can see this being an easy way to go if it works out, and with no chance of creating any creosote flavors since the wood is all char already.

Josie prefers a more subtle smoke flavor, so that is what I'm shooting for here. Dry-brined the meat this morning in anticipation of cooking tomorrow. Results to follow!

 

[Knifemaker]

Looking forward to your report Fred.

I found both articles interesting and liked the link to the "Naked Whiz's lump data base" ...as I was going to grab another bag of lump at Walmart today and the Royal Oak they sell seems to have a good rating.

I used some apple chunks on my turkey cook, and was pleased with the flavor. Perhaps if you want to avoid that "creosote flavor" you could use apple chips instead of chunks..as they tend to burn quickly.

We just bought a chainsaw....so I'll be harvesting some of my own wood this summer... And that will save us a few bucks, however to be honest...if I have to buy an extra bag of charcoal to end up with the ribs tasting like they did........its money well spent

 

[Bounce]

Something you may already know is that the smoke flavors the cook during the first ~3 hours of a slow cook. After that there's no need to add flavoring accent woods. By then you've working on breaking down the connective tissues and building a bark.

Personally I find milder flavors (including apple) best with something like a pork tenderloin. For butts, ribs, and brisket I've had guest say they prefer mesquite or hickory.

My preference for lump charcoal is because of the different flavor. As I read the two articles I realized the debate seem to roil around safety while I was focusing on the flavors the briquettes created. I suspect it's the binders and fillers since I assume sawdust is indiscriminate instead of matched. Where if I buy hickory lump, it's all hickory.

 

[Knifemaker]

Something you may already know is that the smoke flavors the cook during the first ~3 hours of a slow cook. After that there's no need to add flavoring accent woods. By then you've working on breaking down the connective tissues and building a bark.

That's not entirely true. You can get more smoke flavor anytime durring a cook if you baste the meat or add moisture in some way.For info on that and a lot more to read.. See here:

https://amazingribs.com/tips_and_technique/zen_of_wood.html

I mop my ribs with BBQ sauce for the last hour of the cook and the smoke does flavor the sauce. I also spray down the ribs at the three hour mark with apple juice, and from what I can see, it does add more smoke flavor to the meat.

 

[Bounce]

Oh... one of THOSE people...

If you're breaking the bark with a mop of some kind, then sure... :crazy:

 

[Blind Squirrel]

Dry-brined the meat this morning in anticipation of cooking tomorrow.

Brine is a solution of salt in water. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brine Are you referring to a salt based rub?

 

[Fred W]

Dry Brining - The idea is that you get the salt part of your rub on early so it can be absorbed into the meat. Then the rub you put on for flavor before cooking has no salt in it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Well, I had an interesting cooking session on Saturday, and I think that I learned a few things. You will recall that I planned to use charcoal only (no added smoking wood) and that I used the Kingsford Apple Wood Charcoal briquettes.

I found that I could fit the entire 15 pound bag of charcoal into my new 12 x 12 x 6" charcoal basket, and that was almost enough fuel to last through the entire 6 hours of cooking. I did add a little extra regular Kingsford blue towards the end of the ribs' crutch time (while it was still wrapped so no ash would get on the meat) so that I'd have enough fuel for the final push.

I was very surprised by the amount of smoke generated using just the charcoal, bot the Apple Wood enhanced and the plain blue generate a lot of smoke as the charcoals are getting lit. And this was not smoke of the desirable thin-blue variety. Because I was using a "Minion" approach with the large basket, which has a lot of unlit charcoal, the first ~2-3 hours of cooking produced a steady plume of heavy white smoke from the pit's exhaust. After all the coals were completely ashed over the heavy smoke subsides. Then when I added some more unlit blue briquettes to the top at the 4.5 hour mark, back came the heavy white smoke again.

I had previously thought that the white smoke I was getting in my UDS was from the liberal number of wood chunks I had added to the basket. Now I'm starting to think that it was just the charcoal briquettes all along.

Another observation is that, compared to the sweet smell of wood smoke that I can get when using a propane burner for heat and wood chunks in a cast iron fry pan for smoke, the smoke from the charcoal briquettes has a slight sour smell to it. I suspect that may be sulpher from the small part of the briquettes that is made of mineral coal.

Both the ribs and pork loin were cooked to perfection. The 6 lb loin was done (143 internal) in 2 1/2 hours, so it was wrapped and sat in a Faux Cambrio to finish, until the ribs were ready. The ribs received a modified 3-2-1. Modified because the last time I thought that they were a bit mushy with a full 2 hour crutch. So this time I cut the crutch time down to 1 1/2 hours and made the final step 1 1/2 hours for a firmer bark. That seemed to work very well.

We had guests for dinner Saturday, and everyone really enjoyed the meal. They said they were the best ribs they had ever had, better than at any of the local BBQ joints. Since we were so busy enjoying ourselves (there may have been some adult bevs involved) there were no Que-View photos taken. (sorry

)

I still detected a "rough" component to the smoke flavoring that I would like to get rid of, and I'm starting lean to the idea that it is caused by using charcoal, not by creosote from the smoking wood as I had envisioned. When I mentioned that flavor to my guests they said they didn't taste it, but you know that the cook is always the toughest food critic.

Next time I am going to try using only straight lump charcoal, no briquettes at all, and adding a small amount smoking wood to the basket. I can always fall back to using the propane burner and wood chunks, but I want to see if I can get as good results with charcoal.

 

[Knifemaker]

Yes, most of the white smoke I see comes from adding cold charcoal to the fire box. I think you'll even get that with lump charcoal, but not sure. After noticing this, I try now to get add only charcoal I've already started in the chiminey. As for adding wood, sometimes you'll get some heavy smoke from that too, but it doesn't smell the same, so it might just be moisture in the wood, and it doesn't last long anyway if the wood catches quickly.

I start out with 2 chiminey of the "lump briquettes" and only add the wood after I put the ribs in. Sometimes I will toss in a few unlit coals, and they will put out heavier smoke, but again not for long. I did try the "minion method" but found I wasn't getting the heat I needed until all the briquettes caught any way.

I'm going to try using more lump for the next cook, mostly to get less ash.

As for dry brining... I sprinkle the ribs pretty well with Kosher salt and let them sit overnight. But the next day I rinse them off with cold water, pat them dry with towels, then rub them with olive oil before coating them with the rub. (No salt, and I use a large aluminum pan for the rub so I can just flip the racks around in the pan to coat them)

I don't crutch the ribs, but as mentioned at 3 hours I hose them down with apple juice (you can use just water really). I'll hit them again at 4 hours with the juice and then at 5 I sauce them. Same as the rub, heated sauce in the aluminum pan so I can just dip them and get them back in the smoker. (I don't remove the ribs to spray them of course.)

Speaking of "dry brining"...I do this to steaks that I cook on my grill. I sprinkle them all over with kosher salt, and let them sit 10-15 minutes on a plate. The salt pulls water out of the meat, you can actually see it puddle on top. Again, I wash the salt off under the faucet and pad the steaks dry. The lightly season and grill. You're not removing "juice" from the steak, just water...which allows the meat to cook, not "steam".

I was unsure about this and compared two ribeye's ...one I just didn't pre salt. The one I did was noticeably more tender...