So I Think I'm About To Know A Dead Guy
- Thread starter Ari Rankum
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Fastfar
Well-known member
...it's been pretty much covered...except, when it happens... send flowers and a nice card
v65
ouch
Ten years ago I had a student hell bent on getting a Gixxer. This is the kid that liked to brag about how his first ride on a motorcycle he took his friends TL1000 for a ride through a ditch. The kid had more tickets from driving cars than I cared to count. Anyways, I finally got smart as he was getting serious about getting a bike and asked him about insurance. The Gixxer was going to be something like $7000 and the insurance was $7600/year! No bike for him.
P.S. In NY no insurance = no plates. Maybe not the same everywhere.
P.S. In NY no insurance = no plates. Maybe not the same everywhere.
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Ari Rankum
NAFO Karting Champion, 2012
Thanks for all the thoughtful comments and opinions. I especially liked the "borrow the bike and throw it down the road before he does" as a sort of a "What would a Shaolin priest do?" sort of an action. The drop a dime suggestion was interesting, as I do think it would get the bike towed, but I think I can do better - there's no reason I can't look Jonathan in the eye if I feel he and his bike need to be separated. Calling the cops right in front of him would be better.
I left out some useful info (not on purpose) and some questions made that clear. (Sorry that this is about to become really long winded.)
The parents: he was abandoned (pretty much) by his "real" father and taken in by this family. The patriarch of his new family is his biological dad's brother. The family is central American. So there are some cultural aspects. Jonathan is now the new, and only, son in the family, with three half sisters. The patriarch has an obvious fondness for the son, so he gets a very, very long leash. I'd talk to the father, but there are issues. He speaks almost no English, and my Spanish is not what it was in college. Carla does not get very far with the father, given the status of the son (I think this is cultural), so she's reluctant to bring the motorcycle up with him much. Even when I'm only trying to compliment the father on the restaurant, we mostly nod and smile a lot. I don't think I'd do an appropriate job of trying to help him understand how letting his son have that motorcycle may kill him - soon.
It was the sister, Carla, who came to me and warned me that Jonathan was considering buying a bike and that she thought Jonathan was the last person who should have a motorcycle. Carla is the smart one. Having listened to a few of Jonathan's stories, especially the very high energy demolition of his vehicles, I completely agreed. So I started, long before he bought the bike suggesting that people who send four wheelers careening down the streets (after tossing them out) to a fiery end, generally, fare far worse on two wheelers. I mentioned losing limbs and life.
The gear: he said the dealer picked out a mesh jacket for him. I told him I really don't think much of mesh jackets and that he'd be safer in something made in a bit heavier construction, even if it's uncomfortable. I asked him what kind of mesh jacket he bought. He said he skipped it. I asked him what he bought instead. He said, nothing. He had no gloves. He had no boots. I didn't ask where his helmet was when I didn't see it in the restaurant or on the bike.
The training: When I found out he had ridden the bike to the restaurant, I remarked that I thought he had no license. He admitted he didn't. I asked him what the hell he was thinking. He said the class was 25 hours, and he didn't want to take it. Obviously, some of you guessed right about his general attitude. I completely agree with the many of you who commented that the kid believes he's indestructible.
I, on the other hand, more so than for any other person, feel this kid is going to bin this bike very, very badly. I believe in spidey sense, and it won't let what I think is a very bad future outcome out of my head.
I left out some useful info (not on purpose) and some questions made that clear. (Sorry that this is about to become really long winded.)
The parents: he was abandoned (pretty much) by his "real" father and taken in by this family. The patriarch of his new family is his biological dad's brother. The family is central American. So there are some cultural aspects. Jonathan is now the new, and only, son in the family, with three half sisters. The patriarch has an obvious fondness for the son, so he gets a very, very long leash. I'd talk to the father, but there are issues. He speaks almost no English, and my Spanish is not what it was in college. Carla does not get very far with the father, given the status of the son (I think this is cultural), so she's reluctant to bring the motorcycle up with him much. Even when I'm only trying to compliment the father on the restaurant, we mostly nod and smile a lot. I don't think I'd do an appropriate job of trying to help him understand how letting his son have that motorcycle may kill him - soon.
It was the sister, Carla, who came to me and warned me that Jonathan was considering buying a bike and that she thought Jonathan was the last person who should have a motorcycle. Carla is the smart one. Having listened to a few of Jonathan's stories, especially the very high energy demolition of his vehicles, I completely agreed. So I started, long before he bought the bike suggesting that people who send four wheelers careening down the streets (after tossing them out) to a fiery end, generally, fare far worse on two wheelers. I mentioned losing limbs and life.
The gear: he said the dealer picked out a mesh jacket for him. I told him I really don't think much of mesh jackets and that he'd be safer in something made in a bit heavier construction, even if it's uncomfortable. I asked him what kind of mesh jacket he bought. He said he skipped it. I asked him what he bought instead. He said, nothing. He had no gloves. He had no boots. I didn't ask where his helmet was when I didn't see it in the restaurant or on the bike.
The training: When I found out he had ridden the bike to the restaurant, I remarked that I thought he had no license. He admitted he didn't. I asked him what the hell he was thinking. He said the class was 25 hours, and he didn't want to take it. Obviously, some of you guessed right about his general attitude. I completely agree with the many of you who commented that the kid believes he's indestructible.
I, on the other hand, more so than for any other person, feel this kid is going to bin this bike very, very badly. I believe in spidey sense, and it won't let what I think is a very bad future outcome out of my head.
Patriot
Isabella is Lazarus
Call the cops; I'm sure Carla would agree ANYTHING to get him off the streets and get his attention...
It's a no brainer
You'll feel bad if he demises himself, but you won't forgive ya good self if he takes out a whole family in a mini van in the process
Just sayin'
Best of luck and karma
Mike in Nawlins'
It's a no brainer
You'll feel bad if he demises himself, but you won't forgive ya good self if he takes out a whole family in a mini van in the process
Just sayin'
Best of luck and karma
Mike in Nawlins'
painman
Well-known member
All I can come up with is just pray.....without really knowing the circumstances or real particulars. Other than that hopefully you can steer him in the right direction. Its a gamble either way. Its too bad I've known alot of guys like him growing up. Some made it most didn't. Unfortunately I'm dealing with a 22 year old stepson who is not using good sense right now so I can relate. Sometimes we just have to really let them go to find out for themselves and thats when all we can do is pray. That's the hard part. Hopefully he makes the right decession. PM. <><
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doctorJ
Well-known member
Stupid hurts. And it will for him too I imagine. As has been said, I would be more concerned about the other possible people who may be involved in some way in his accident/demise.
doctorj
7xray
Well-known member
Wow, what a tough deal, Ari. I wonder if the partriarch has any peers or priests or someone that he respects and who could act as an interpreter? Or maybe a bilingual cop? That way you could take your concern to the old man, although it sounds like the kid probably wouldn't listen to him either.
Good luck. You are a real gent to be caring and wanting to help.
7X
Good luck. You are a real gent to be caring and wanting to help.
7X
Mooseonagoose
Well-known member
Write the condolence letter now, stamp it & put it on the shelf, ...it'll save time later, all you'll have to do is post it! Yeah, pretty crude remark I realize, but...
The kid doesn't know shit, doesn't particularly wanna know shit, and is obviously completely convinced that no one older than his peers knows shit either! ...Brick Wall syndrome!
Although, returning to my initial comment, ...there may be an approach therein. You do have open communication with the sister, you therefore may have a translator. If you feel as strongly about this as I perceive you do, then write a heartfelt letter 'mano a mano' to the father, telling him honestly of your concern for his son [i don't know whether you're a father or not, but if so phrase it from one Dad to another, ...but anchor it in as much common ground as you can dig up]. Compose the letter and have his sister translate it for you, then re-write it in your hand and see that he gets it [if she doesn't care to, you llikely know someone who could/would]. What made me think of this approach was a momentary inclination I had to suggest actually sending a pre-emptive condolence, but that might not be well rec'd.
If you were to do this and the worst case scenario nonetheless occurs, I know better than to believe it'll keep you from the hurt, [...it oughta] but that's the price you pay for listening to your conscience and travelling lifes road w/ your heart chakra open!
The kid doesn't know shit, doesn't particularly wanna know shit, and is obviously completely convinced that no one older than his peers knows shit either! ...Brick Wall syndrome!
Although, returning to my initial comment, ...there may be an approach therein. You do have open communication with the sister, you therefore may have a translator. If you feel as strongly about this as I perceive you do, then write a heartfelt letter 'mano a mano' to the father, telling him honestly of your concern for his son [i don't know whether you're a father or not, but if so phrase it from one Dad to another, ...but anchor it in as much common ground as you can dig up]. Compose the letter and have his sister translate it for you, then re-write it in your hand and see that he gets it [if she doesn't care to, you llikely know someone who could/would]. What made me think of this approach was a momentary inclination I had to suggest actually sending a pre-emptive condolence, but that might not be well rec'd.
If you were to do this and the worst case scenario nonetheless occurs, I know better than to believe it'll keep you from the hurt, [...it oughta] but that's the price you pay for listening to your conscience and travelling lifes road w/ your heart chakra open!
odot
CC member # 17,----- DUP member # 7, mensa club m
Ari.....when did you become a troll?
Yeah, I don't want him t-boning my wife when she's taking the kids to school or the playground.
MojaveFJR
Well-known member
Let me guess, no insurance either. No way could he afford insurance after two wrecks in that period of time and being 20 on a gixxer.
WOW.
WOW.
Ari Rankum
NAFO Karting Champion, 2012
I'm going to talk to the father. You just gave me another angle to come at him with, though. It just occurred to me that Jonathan, at 20, is probably still a dependent. As such, his bullshit antics are putting all of his father's assets at risk should he seriously hurt someone or some family. In addition to talking to him about how Jonathan is likely to be hurt, I can surely talk to him about how his whole family may be hurt (financially, and otherwise). Just as many of you seem to find the parents negligent, I'm sure an attorney could make a jury feel the parents should have known better.
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v65
ouch
Check post 42 for a related story. Maryland has mandatory insurance, how did he get a plate without it?
dhalen32
Well-known member
Ari:
I did not read the whole thread so I apologize if these steps have already been suggested. See if you can get him into an MSF BRC class, followed by an ERC on the GSX-R, followed by the new ARC-ST class on his bike and then perhaps a track school. I have a good friend (MSF MSRC Instructor and racer) who mentors young sportbike riders in the military stationed at Virginia Beach. Perhaps he could help your young friend. If these things don't slow him down on the street perhaps it will get him onto the track to get his thrills.
Dave
I did not read the whole thread so I apologize if these steps have already been suggested. See if you can get him into an MSF BRC class, followed by an ERC on the GSX-R, followed by the new ARC-ST class on his bike and then perhaps a track school. I have a good friend (MSF MSRC Instructor and racer) who mentors young sportbike riders in the military stationed at Virginia Beach. Perhaps he could help your young friend. If these things don't slow him down on the street perhaps it will get him onto the track to get his thrills.
Dave
Ari Rankum
NAFO Karting Champion, 2012
I asked him about this. I said, don't you need insurance to get plates. He said yes. I asked, don't you need proof of a motorcycle endorsement to get insurance? He said yes. Not sure how he got insurance if that's the case (if he did). There are two weaknesses in the Maryland system. 1) All you need is a policy number to get the plates - he may have just provided the number from his wadded up car. Second, there's no requirement to carry proof of insurance in Maryland.
Tell you what, though. When I heard the bike was outside, I immediately asked if there were plates on it. (I don't trust this kid). Then I asked how he managed that. Then I followed up with a question about whether the plates on his bike actually belong on someone else's bike. Get the picture? If not, imagine Bart Simpson, surrounded by empty candy wrappers, the day after Halloween, perhaps still wearing his costume. IOW, someone who's normally a spaz, but who, on a sugar high, is out of control.
Ya know, the more I think about this - the more I'm wondering if he skipped the whole insurance thing and stole some plates. The bike was backed up a minor incline, ass end facing the rear wall of the restaurant. It was parked in a pain in the ass way that most experienced riders wouldn't do (nose down at risk of rolling off the side stand, and backed up this incline by hand). One explanation is that someone didn't want the tag to be visible to passing patrol cars.
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Rubbersidedown
Active member
As a young rider, I think I am uniquely qualified to say, you can't fix stupid. If no one bothered to teach him good driving techniques in a car, he sure as hell won't make any better decisions on a bike. And if he is oblivious as the forces that make a motorcycle work and unwilling to learn, he will crash it long before he can figure them out on his own.
I have a friend who just finished telling me he was doing 80 at night with a knee down on some local back road, and when I brought up the subject of counter steering, he told me who ever told me that must be an idiot. People, especially my age, don't want to be bother to active learn something they think they can just pick up by doing. Problem is you'll figure out how to ride a hearse before the motorcycle.
I don't sympathize, because these are the people who deserve to get killed on bikes and ruin the image for everyone else. Unfortunately, as others have said, he might take someone else with him along with ruining his family's lives. Although come to think of it the kid is more likely to kill someone with a 3000 pound car than a 350 pound bike, and it sounds like he is bound to kill himself in either.
If you think he stole the plate, call the police and report it. The bike will get impounded and he'll pay some fines and then if he ever does try to get insurance legitimately, it will be too expensive and he'll go buy another cage to wreck.
I have a friend who just finished telling me he was doing 80 at night with a knee down on some local back road, and when I brought up the subject of counter steering, he told me who ever told me that must be an idiot. People, especially my age, don't want to be bother to active learn something they think they can just pick up by doing. Problem is you'll figure out how to ride a hearse before the motorcycle.
I don't sympathize, because these are the people who deserve to get killed on bikes and ruin the image for everyone else. Unfortunately, as others have said, he might take someone else with him along with ruining his family's lives. Although come to think of it the kid is more likely to kill someone with a 3000 pound car than a 350 pound bike, and it sounds like he is bound to kill himself in either.
If you think he stole the plate, call the police and report it. The bike will get impounded and he'll pay some fines and then if he ever does try to get insurance legitimately, it will be too expensive and he'll go buy another cage to wreck.
Leartech
Well-known member
Ari,
I am not normally one to comment on such things. I am sorry you find yourself in this position. Personally, if you think this kid is capable of all of this with the plates and insurance, then the time to talk to an officer is here. Next chance you get, write down whatever plate number is on the bike, and then find an officer. Tell him a short version of the story and I bet he would run the plate. Until he proves that he is trying to do the right thing, it might also be time to walk away. Finally, I might let the family know that if he does hurt an innocent person in the process, you will be there to do whatever it takes to help the family of the innocent. If that means ruining his family financially, so be it. By turning a blind eye to what the kid is doing, his family will bear some of the responsibility of whatever happens.
Maybe it will work out. I suspect you have a gut feeling though, and those are hard to ignore. You have made a good effort. Start preparing yourself to walk away from it.
Bryan
I am not normally one to comment on such things. I am sorry you find yourself in this position. Personally, if you think this kid is capable of all of this with the plates and insurance, then the time to talk to an officer is here. Next chance you get, write down whatever plate number is on the bike, and then find an officer. Tell him a short version of the story and I bet he would run the plate. Until he proves that he is trying to do the right thing, it might also be time to walk away. Finally, I might let the family know that if he does hurt an innocent person in the process, you will be there to do whatever it takes to help the family of the innocent. If that means ruining his family financially, so be it. By turning a blind eye to what the kid is doing, his family will bear some of the responsibility of whatever happens.
Maybe it will work out. I suspect you have a gut feeling though, and those are hard to ignore. You have made a good effort. Start preparing yourself to walk away from it.
Bryan
Braenen
Well-known member
Find a cop. Ask to have coffee with him at a Starbucks and discuss the situation with him. Give him the VIN and the plate numbers. He can check the registration very quickly and tell if the plates are stolen. If they are and you know where the bike is, it gets towed that day.
Tell Mr. Officer where and when he will be riding and let him do a safety stop. Driving without a license, no insurance and stolen tag can be a very very expensive mistake. It might be enough that he cant get the bike out of impound.
Worth a try...
Tell Mr. Officer where and when he will be riding and let him do a safety stop. Driving without a license, no insurance and stolen tag can be a very very expensive mistake. It might be enough that he cant get the bike out of impound.
Worth a try...
El Toro Joe
FYYFF
If I were you I'd take out a million dollar life insurance policy on the kid
