Tranny (shifter) bokerforked (Found: star cam broke off the shift drum!)

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Five years ago, when I swapped out the motor in Frankenbike, many following along made comments like "Wow, I wouldn't have the nerve to do that!"

Let me tell ya.....swapping a motor is child's play compared to this.

Walt, you are a stud!
Us old-timers will remember that I'm not the first to venture where others fear to tread..... Ponyfool did this in 2008 with his '06. I found his thread, but the picture server he used is dead, and he's not active any more so no comparisons possible..... Still, having remembered that it had been done by someone in his garage helped me out a bit, psychologically.

 
"wfooshee" <--- translation ---> "fearless studly wrench dude"

Once it's buttoned up, you will have the serene knowledge of what your machine can do.

 
"wfooshee" <--- translation ---> "fearless studly wrench dude"
True, dat.

Once it's buttoned up, you will have the serene knowledge of what your machine can do.
This is coming from a guy who has never had to live with his own paint work.

Only you know where all the flaws are...

But I'm sure that our stalwart, studly wrench dude will make no "holidays" on his repair job. ;)

 
Just a suggestion / thought,

While the engine is out, on my old 04, I was starting to get some oil leakage from the large O-ring that goes in the groove on the output shaft assembly (with bearing), held in with three bolts.

You can only change out that seal with the engine out. Its cheap enough and with the age of the bike, probably flattened..

BTW, on the FZ6 forum, there were a couple of full engine tear downs. The FJR and FZ6 are extremly similar inside (but no balancers) overall...

 
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That bearing assembly has to come out to do the case split, so we're already there! Another one on the middle gear shaft.

 
I beliieve the one that was leaking on mine was the larger diameter seal, that went on the drive assembly right toewards the outer edge.

I didn't screw with mine (it didn't drip but was definitly wet with oily dirt at the bottom edge of it. Just something you may want to consider replacing while there..

 
I'm happy to hear that *something* helped you out psychologically. It took all of an internet to do it!

 
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Forks and gear shafts from hppants arrived yesterday, and there is a very significant difference in appearance!!!! Forks look brand new! Haven't looked real closely at the gear dogs yet, just opened the package to check that everything was there. Looking forward to starting reassembly tomorrow, but will only get to a certain point. The 10 single-use bolts are back-ordered, I don't expect to see them until next week at the earliest, so the case will not go back together yet.

 
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I don't have an angle gauge, I had planned on making a template that would place 0 at the position the breaker bar started, with a mark at 120. Still measured, just not a mechanical device. Just have to retain the template with something to keep it from moving once I start.

OTOH, getting one of those isn't exactly going to break the bank, is it?

 
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Walt, got a simple (?) project for ya while the lump is apart...

Take out the balancers and weigh them. I'm dying to know how much heft they add to the FJR motor.

No pressure....JUST DO IT!!! :D

 
I don't have an angle gauge, I had planned on making a template that would place 0 at the position the breaker bar started, with a mark at 120. Still measured, just not a mechanical device. Just have to retain the template with something to keep it from moving once I start.
OTOH, getting one of those isn't exactly going to break the bank, is it?
My feelings exactly, you've spent all this time & money aiming for a perfect job.....................

 
OTOH, getting one of those isn't exactly going to break the bank, is it?
My feelings exactly, you've spent all this time & money aiming for a perfect job.....................
When you are done with it you can mount it on the wall like a trophy.

You can pay it forward to someone.

You can sell it to someone here on the Forum (that has second gear popping out).

I've seen this style for ~$10 for the big spenders.

torqueanglegauge_700.jpg


 
Walt, got a simple (?) project for ya while the lump is apart...
Take out the balancers and weigh them. I'm dying to know how much heft they add to the FJR motor.

No pressure....JUST DO IT!!!
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No. That's too much work!!!!

Ahhhhh-hahahahahahahahaha!

Wait.... this question from a man with one sitting in the garage doing nothing????!?!?!?!??

 
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Some comparisons made today, and the tough decisions of re-using my parts or using Patriot's parts sent over by our pal hppants. Tough decision there.....

Center shift fork (4th and 5th)

Center%2520fork.jpg


And my statement earlier that this is the 5th gear fork and thus worn heavily is half wrong. It is the 5th gear fork, but the grungy side is the side for 4th gear!!!

Here's my third gear wheel, looking into the groove the worn fork rides. This wheel is moves left to engage 5th, and right to engage 4th.

3rd%2520gear%2520wheel%2520mine.jpg


Here's the same wheel from Mike's transmission. Note the ridge on the 4th-gear side of the fork groove which is gone on mine!

3rd%2520gear%2520wheel%2520Mike%2527s.jpg


Another comparison. The 4th-gear dogs on mine.....

4th%2520gear%2520dogs%2520mine.jpg


.... and on Mike's

4th%2520gear%2520dog%2520Mike%2527s.jpg


Now for some fun. If you want to see how the shifting works in this thing, read on. If you already understand the shifting, or if you could care less, then go find something else to do. I've always been a little curious about this myself. I've seen the Youtube videos about motorcycle shifting, but some of them suck, although some are rather clear. Most show 6-speed boxes, though, and I was wondering how our missing ratio compared to those.

Here's a shot of the transmission shafts set as they would be in neutral. The shaft at the top is the input shaft, driven by the clutch. The shaft at the bottom is the output shaft, driven by whichever gear pair is actually engaged. In neutral, it's obviously not driven. The big gear on the right of the output shaft is splined to the shaft, and drives the middle gear shaft, which has the bevel gear which drives the output shaft to the u-joint to which the drive shaft to the rear wheel is attached.

If the crankcase were made of Star Trek's "transparent aluminum," this is the view you'd have from behind the engine looking forward, assuming the shift drum and forks were also transparent.
smile.png


The gear pairs are labelled 1 through 5. One wheel for each gear is splined to its shaft, the other freewheels, allowing all the gears to stay meshed all the time, giving the term constant-mesh gearbox. Selection of ratios is done by sliding some of the wheels back and forth so the dogs on the sides mate, locking adjacent wheels together.

On the input shaft, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd are splined to the axle (1st is actually machine as part of the axle!) while 4th and 5th spin freely. On the output shaft, 4th and 5th are splined to the axle while 1st through 3rd spin freely. You'll notice that the gears are not in order on the shaft. The idea is that each gear wheel is adjacent to the other type of wheel, free, spline, free, spline, etc. Gear selection is done simply by sliding a wheel into the adjacent one, locking them together so that the free wheel is no longer free. When both wheels of a specific ratio are locked to the shaft, that ratio is selected, as all the other ratios have one wheel spinning freely. So as pictured, with no dog engaged, the input shaft is driven by the clutch but each ratio has one wheel spinning freely, so there is no propulsion.

Shifting%2520neutral%2520labelled.jpg


Now you kick the shifter down into first (or up for you AE guys....) and the right-hand fork moves to the right, sliding the 4th-gear output shaft wheel into the 1st-gear output shaft wheel, which until that point was free-spinning. First gear's wheel is now locked to the axle by being engaged with the next wheel over, which is splined, and transmits the torque into the axle. I drew a line showing the engaged gears, and a box showing the engaged dogs.

Shifting%25201st%2520labelled.jpg


Now the same illustrations for 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th.
The right fork is returned to its neutral position, and the left fork slides the 5th-gear output wheel into the 2nd-gear output wheel. 2nd-gear output was free-wheeling, now it's locked to the shaft by the splines on the 5th-gear output wheel.

Shifting%25202nd%2520labelled.jpg


3rd. The left fork moves across its neutral position, all the way to the right, and engages third gear on the output shaft.

Shifting%25203rd%2520labelled.jpg


4th. The left fork returns to its neutral, and the center fork slides the splined 3rd-gear wheel into the freewheeling 4th gear wheel on the input shaft.

Shifting%25204th%2520labelled.jpg


And 5th, also handled by the center fork on the input shaft.

shifting%25205th%2520labelled.jpg


Now back to that thought about our missing ratio..... To put a 6-speed in the FJR, which so many people seem to think is a Necessary Thing (I am not among them....) you would have to add a pair of wheels and size all the wheels differently, change which pairs the sliding wheels engage and which order, and either make the axles longer for room, or make the gearwheels thinner so they all fit. Longer axles means all-new castings for the crankcase, and thinner gearwheels probably means weaker gears. Oh, yeah. New shift drum to make the extra selection.

 
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Thanks for taking the time to make a load path diagram for the transmission!

Some comparisons made today, and the tough decisions of re-using my parts or using Patriot's parts sent over by our pal hppants. Tough decision there.....

Center shift fork (4th and 5th)
Center%2520fork.jpg
You can see witness marks near the C5 embossing showing that it's slightly bent. It definitely looks much better than the one to the left, but I'm not so sure I'd install this guy.

Longer axles means all-new castings for the crankcase. Thinner gears probably means weaker gears.
And that's why IMHO it'll never happen. At least not for a Yamaha model called "FJR1300". I completely agree with you about not needing a 6th, however I'm sure Yamaha's next iteration of super sport tourer will have it, whatever it's called.

 
Thanks for the pic's! Its pretty much the same set as Yamaha's years gone by.

Just curious, how many miles difference between the two transmissions?

And while I'm asking, (W/O starting an oil thread), what oils (generally) have been used in each engine?

There obviously is substantially more wear on your old shirter fork (as well as the rest).

Are you planning on just swapping the entire gearbox? Seems if nothing is wrong with Radios box/shifter, that'd be the way to go..

You probably already know, but once the cases are buttoned back up, its a good idea to rotate the input shaft while rotating the shaft and shifting thru the gears, just to make sure there's no binding/issues..

 

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