when to switch to synthetic

[v65]

I enjoy some technical exchange

So Jestal have you taken into account relativity? As the FJR travels faster those chemical bonds will elongate, advantage synthetics! Kidding, love your posts.

 

[evil_henchman]

OK... I'll bite. Explain to me how/why synthetics have better pH buffering capabilities.
As far as I know the base stock...i.e..."synthetic" as opposed to conventional......has little to do with the pH buffering. That is all in the additive package. The same additive package could/would be in synthetic or conventional oils. So why would synthetics be better?

Conventional and allegedly synthetic oils processed and blended at the same refineries and sold at every cut rate store in the country have the same additive packages? Shocking. I’m just speechless. But you're right. It's academic.

Don't be shocked. The additive packages that enable the base stock to meet the SM performance requirements are made by only a few companies, such as Paramins. Many different oil brands use the same or similar additive packages for their oil that all come from the same source.

That was sarcasm. :lol:

Having blended millions of gallons I know full well that the same additive packages are used and more often than anybody would like to believe, the same finished product that goes into el cheapo conventional bottles goes into bottles marked "full synthetic" at your major retailers. And believe it or not they're not breaking any laws by doing so. On the outside chance that somebody like GM bust's 'em on a spec infraction they'll apologize, promise to not let those "accidents" happen again, and it's business as usual. Like I said, the major oil companies are the biggest crooks on the planet. If you're going to go synthetic, spend the bucks and get 'em somewhere besides Walmart.

 

[warsw]

All in all I am tiring of this. I enjoy some technical exchange but all I get from you is no facts of your own, a constant request for test data and then a change of subject when I provide some relavent information that flys in the face of your preconceived notions. If you want to bring some of YOUR data to the table showing the superiority of synthetics and how wrong all of us are that are running or promoting use of other types of oil I will be glad to listen. I am as openminded as anyone but I have yet to hear anything from you that would change my mind. Just a bunch of inuendo, repetition of various marketing hype and old wive's tales.

I'm sure you are getting tired but before you stop and rest read. I know you will just tell us all, that nothing said here is factual and don't believe what you read and we should just believe what you say but, try to have an open mind and you might just learn something. There is even more info out there if you would like me to direct you.

 

[jestal]

gone

 

[DrQ]

Can you use the same synthetic for your car in your bike? Is there a different polymer lenth between these two and does it matter?

 

[Toecutter]

Can you use the same synthetic for your car in your bike?

Depends on what you're using in your car. If it has the starburst "Energy Conserving" symbol on the container, then no.

Did you read the FAQ's and bin o' facts yet?

 

[DrQ]

Can you use the same synthetic for your car in your bike?

Depends on what you're using in your car. If it has the starburst "Energy Conserving" symbol on the container, then no.

Did you read the FAQ's and bin o' facts yet?

Just regular Mobil 1 synthetic. Costco will sell me a 6-pack for $28. The local dealer wants 12.99 per can of "motorcycle" Mobil 1. Is it really any different? I'll check the bin-o-facts.

 

[Toecutter]

Is it really any different?

Yeah, and over time, the friction modifiers in the Costco stuff will undo the friction needed to make your clutch hook up. I use the Delo 400 15W40 from Costco, available for $9.00 a gallon last time I bought some, and may be cheaper now that oil prices are down a bit.

If you really must use synthetic, you really need the right kind. Mobil sells a grade without friction modifiers, I think it has a red cap on the bottle, and may be available from Wal-Mart.

The bin 'o facts, upon checking, doesn't seem to have the right oil info, like what grade is proper. Synthetic or not, I think it's CL-4.

It's just best to go and first do a search under the "Member" tab in the upper right area of each page, then find "Jestal" and read all his posts. You'll get an education about oil that will make you the envy and/or bane of all your gearhead buddies.

 

[Bustanut joker]

Oh yeah Bob, Go ahead, keep stirin' the pot

:jester:

 

[jestal]

gone

 

[Bustanut joker]

Gotta do something during the winter. Not enough snow to ride my sled and sitting on the FJR in the basement making vroomm-vroom noises is not hacking it......

Ain't that the truth, though a coupla lowbrows blew through my back yard last night <_< 3 whole inch's of snow here an the locals are getting restless.

I get to set in the garage firing the feej and the rebel, yeah the doors are open so it's cold but, at least the neigbors don't think I'm nuts.... yet

:jester:

 

[warsw]

All in all I am tiring of this. I enjoy some technical exchange but all I get from you is no facts of your own, a constant request for test data and then a change of subject when I provide some relavent information that flys in the face of your preconceived notions. If you want to bring some of YOUR data to the table showing the superiority of synthetics and how wrong all of us are that are running or promoting use of other types of oil I will be glad to listen. I am as openminded as anyone but I have yet to hear anything from you that would change my mind. Just a bunch of inuendo, repetition of various marketing hype and old wive's tales.

I'm sure you are getting tired but before you stop and rest read. I know you will just tell us all, that nothing said here is factual and don't believe what you read and we should just believe what you say but, try to have an open mind and you might just learn something. There is even more info out there if you would like me to direct you.

I was particularly interested in this statement;

Group I Mineral Oils Group II Mineral Oils Group III Mineral Oils Group IV PAOs Group V Diesters Base Oil Visc. Flash

Point Pour

Point VI Visc. Flash

Point Pour

Point VI Visc. Flash

Point Pour

Point VI Visc. Flash

Point Pour

Point VI Visc. Flash

Point Pour

Point VI

100 Neutral 4.1 380 +15°F 97 4.1 410 +20°F 102 4.2 410 +25°F 127 3.8 437 -92°F 123 3.6 460 -67°F 148

200 Neutral 6.1 420 +15°F 96 6.4 435 +25°F 103 7.0 460 +20°F 135 5.9 469 -83°F 135 5.5 485 -65°F 150

325 Neutral 8.4 435 +15°F 95 --- --- --- --- --- -- --- --- 8.4 507 -74°F 132 --- --- --- ---

450 Neutral 10. 455 +15°F 95 12. 500 +20°F 101 --- --- --- --- 9.5 527 -85°F 130 --- --- --- ---

As you can see in the table above, synthetics offer real advantages when your engine is very cold and when your engine is very hot. The viscosity numbers shown above are at 212°F. At 32°F the PAOs and Diesters have about one third the viscosity of the mineral oils, meaning they pump through your engine three times better. Since about 75% of all the wear on your engine happens in the first five minutes after you start it up, synthetics offer an advantage in significantly reducing engine wear.

And this;

To make a 10w-40 oil, the manufacturer would start out with a 10 weight oil as the base stock. All by itself, this oil would thin out so much at normal operating temperatures that the oil film would be useless. So, they add these very special very long molecules, the VIIs. The VII molecules are as much as 1000 times as long as an oil molecule. The VII molecules curl up in a little ball at room temperature, but as the temperature gets higher they uncurl and stretch out, like a cat sleeping in the sunlight. The more stretched out the molecule is, the more it impedes the normal flow of the oil, thus raising the effective viscosity. Now, this sounds just a little too good to be true. Well, there are two catches: first, these molecules are not lubricants, so the more of them that you add the less oil you have sitting around lubricating things. Secondly, these VII molecules can be broken into pieces by various pressures and forces, like being squeezed through the transmission gears in a motorcycle or the hydraulic valves in a diesel engine. Every time a VII molecule gets broken, the oil loses some of its high temperature viscosity. Synthetic oils made from pure PAOs and/or Diesters typically have very few VIIs, so these oils are far less subject to viscosity breakdown due to shearing of the VII package. As a result, synthetics are far more stable in a motorcycle engine.

And this;

In 1994, Dr. John Woolum tested the viscosity of several 10w-40 oils in his motorcycle. He found that all of the petroleum oils had lost highly significant amounts of viscosity within 1500 miles. Only Mobil-1 held up in his test.

These are just a few examples, there are more. It kind of makes me think that maybe, just maybe, their are a few other benefits to using synthetic oil in my FJR.
Here is some more good stuff that may be of some interest read

This is a book writen by Dave Mann a Detroit Michigan Lubrication Specialist & Truck/Automotive Engineer with 21 years industry engineering experience.

He made a very "bold" statement;

Synthetic motor oil use is one of the fastest growing automotive maintenance and performance products on the market. In this day and age of high-performance synthetic lubrication it just doesn’t make any sense to use petroleum oil, yet every day millions of people still do, because they don’t know the facts. After years of trying to convince certain manufacturers to use a high quality extended drain interval synthetic in the U.S. I have concluded that it will most likely never happen due to reasons other than technical and engineering issues. In my opinion these issues center around cost, profits, service work, parts sales and product life cycle issues.

Now how do you think he might have come to that conclusion. "I DON'T KNOW" Maybe he just forgot to talk to you first.

Like I said before, the information is out there. All you need to do is look.

I too am tiring of your know it all misguided information. You are like a cult leader, with a great ability to sway people with bad information, remember “Jonestown"

You can carry on spreading your bad information and I am sure you will still have your followers. I just hope, out of all this crap, that the forum members learn to not take anyone’s (yours or mine) word for it and take a little time to research for themselves.

I am total done. I will not get on another oil thread, so have at it "continue to baffle us with BS. I will not listen or believe a word.

 

[jestal]

gone

 

[DrQ]

Oh yeah Bob, Go ahead, keep stirin' the pot
:jester:

Hey Hey... Looks like i'm headin to Wal Mart. . .

 

[SkooterG]

Now how do you think he might have come to that conclusion. "I DON'T KNOW" Maybe he just forgot to talk to you first.
Like I said before, the information is out there. All you need to do is look.

I too am tiring of your know it all misguided information. You are like a cult leader, with a great ability to sway people with bad information, remember “Jonestown"

You can carry on spreading your bad information and I am sure you will still have your followers. I just hope, out of all this crap, that the forum members learn to not take anyone’s (yours or mine) word for it and take a little time to research for themselves.

I am total done. I will not get on another oil thread, so have at it "continue to baffle us with BS. I will not listen or believe a word.

Dang, you are coming on pretty strong there warsw. Getting close to the "personal attack" threshhold that is prohibited in our forum guidelines. Take the emotion out of it. Nothing wrong with a good debate, but don't be getting all pissy.

I am total done. I will not get on another oil thread

Hmmm.....I love when folks make such bold statements. They usually turn out to be false bravado. Youse all just can't stay away! Tell you what, if you are serious, how about you pay me a dollar every time you violate your own manifesto?

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

My TESTING has proven that the engine doesn't really care. Too bad that doesn't fit your preconceived notions.

"When to switch to synthetic"? By the overwhelming preponderance of data presented in threads on this forum:....NEVER....

Am I reading what's been presented correctly -- never?

If so, what's the reasoning for GM mandating on some models (I think you've, jestal, mentioned, elsewhere -- e.g. new Corvette) use of synthetic (factory fill?) lubes?

 

[Bustanut joker]

Cult leader...???? Exactly who is associated with a cult? There is a "cult" of synthetic fanatics out there too....!!!!

Ohh yer makin it real easy to start sumpin here, I.....

:jester:

 

[SkooterG]

Cult leader...???? Exactly who is associated with a cult? There is a "cult" of synthetic fanatics out there too....!!!!

Ohh yer makin it real easy to start sumpin here, I.....

:jester:

But it's not Friday yet!

 

[Bustanut joker]

Cult leader...???? Exactly who is associated with a cult? There is a "cult" of synthetic fanatics out there too....!!!!

Ohh yer makin it real easy to start sumpin here, I.....

:jester:

But it's not Friday yet!

Yeah, but I'm feeling like Odot about now, a little macallans did the trick sure seems like friday now

:jester:

 

[Rickster]

and so......

the consensus is?

(lol)