Y.C.C.S....

[bramfrank]

How can they possibly take a 2010 product and rebrand it as 2011? I would think if someone bought a 2011 branded product, then did the math on their VIN, that would lawsuit time.

Bingo. It is illegal as heck to do that.

The serial number has the model year embedded and it and the plate has the date of manufacture stamped on it.

A 2010 is just that a 2010, no matter when they sell it.

The point is being beaten to death for no reason - Yes. They make a 2011 AE/AS. And if you live in the US and unless you are willing to pay a huge premium (because Jap bikes cost a whole lot more in Europe than they do here) you aren't going to be buying one anyway. However if you HAD to have one and there were none to be found, then now you know you can fly to Germany, Italy, Spain, Greece or wherever (just stay out of France, because the darned bike is hugely detuned for that market and stay away from British bikes because the reflector is designed to right hand drive scenarios), plunk down about $23K and then pay a few thou to ship it here where it may or may not be licensable.

 

[palerider]

How can they possibly take a 2010 product and rebrand it as 2011? I would think if someone bought a 2011 branded product, then did the math on their VIN, that would lawsuit time.

Bingo. It is illegal as heck to do that.

The serial number has the model year embedded and it and the plate has the date of manufacture stamped on it.

A 2010 is just that a 2010, no matter when they sell it.

The point is being beaten to death for no reason - Yes. They make a 2011 AE/AS. And if you live in the US and unless you are willing to pay a huge premium (because Jap bikes cost a whole lot more in Europe than they do here) you aren't going to be buying one anyway. However if you HAD to have one and there were none to be found, then now you know you can fly to Germany, Italy, Spain, Greece or wherever (just stay out of France, because the darned bike is hugely detuned for that market and stay away from British bikes because the reflector is designed to right hand drive scenarios), plunk down about $23K and then pay a few thou to ship it here where it may or may not be licensable.

Just want to get the facts straight--don't you think that's a good reason?

 

[palerider]

Note: It isn't discontinued, but Yamaha in North America isn't importing them . . . there are a bunch in dealer's showrooms (more likely in the warehouse out back) and if you were really desperate for one you could import one from Australia or Europe . . .

You're basing this conclusion on what special knowledge?

Just noticed this question:

Well, there's the fact that the announcement they made stated it (can't find a copy online, mind you) and the fact that they sell a 2011-labelled FJR1300AS in Europe (it's black).

Just Google 2011 FJR1300AS

When you google that you get a page about the A, no mention of the AS/AE. If you can find that announcement you refer to, I'd appreciate it. I see no evidence anywhere that any new auto-clutch models are being produced. It appears that the only "new" auto-clutch bikes available are the result of Yamaha selling off the existing inventories.

Actually I thought the AS is not too hard to find via Google.

Here is the page on Yamaha Europe website:

Yamaha Europe Latest AS page

And here is the specific "proof" of the 2011 AS model, the download page for the owners manual:

2011 AS Owners Manual

At lest that shows that Yamaha Europe is still handling the AS as having a 2011 model year.

Thanks for that. The question is not whether they're still SELLING AS models as new (which could be just left-over inventory), the question is whether they're still PRODUCING new AS models, which I would take as good news. They may just be selling sufficient numbers in Europe to justify continued production.

How can they possibly take a 2010 product and rebrand it as 2011? I would think if someone bought a 2011 branded product, then did the math on their VIN, that would lawsuit time.

Like this other guy, you're talking out of your *** too.

They're already branding 2010 bikes as 2011. Notice the bike hasn't changed? They assemble the same parts in 2011 that they did in 2010 and they call it a 2011. Then they stamp the VIN as a 2011. The don't all at once assemble every bike they might ever need until the end of time, stamp them with that model year, and then rent a huge warehouse to store them in and hope they sell them. They order the parts for the number of bikes they think they'll need for that year. If the bike sells well, they order more for the next year. If it doesn't meet sales expectations, they have parts left over and can continue to assemble (and VIN stamp) bikes the next year as 2011 bikes.

There's a lot at stake here for auto-clutch owners. I don't know the exact current state of the US law, but it used to be that once a model was discontinued, the vehicle manufacturer no longer had to keep parts available after seven years. For people who change bikes often, that's not an issue. For those of us who thought they were mated to their bikes for life, it is an issue. If Yamaha have discontinued production of the AS/AE, IOW if they're no longer manufacturing the auto-clutch specific parts, that means that longer-term parts availability is limited. As far as how they can take a 2010 auto-clutch product and rebrand it as 2011, they don't have to do that. Just like they do with the 2010 standard bikes (or as any manufacturer does with any product that reamains unchanged from model year to model year, in 2011 they assemble auto-clutch bikes out of parts still in inventory and call them 2011 bikes once they're assembled.

All that aside, I don't know exactly when they stamp the VIN on a bike (do you?), nor do I know what the rules are in Europe, Asia, and/or Australia (do you)?

So until somebody knows something definitive, all this is just speculation, and blow-hards making authoritative statements don't further the discussion..

 

[bramfrank]

If the bike is assembled in 2011, then it is a 2011 . . . . manufacturers can introduce models in advance of the calendar year, mind you, up to one year less a day in advance, which is why the 2007 Concours was introduced as a 2008 model.

Using your logic, since there have been no significant changes since 2006, all FJRs built since the introduction of the model would be 2006s or perhaps because there were no changes whatsoever except paint color since 2009, they should all be 2009s.

FYI, the VIN is applied when the bike is built (as in when it goes down the assembly line) and the VIN plate reflects that as well.

As to whether they're making parts or using their bins, in the US the manufacturer still has the obligation to support the product for 7 years from date of last MANUFACTURE. Just because they didn't order actuator solenoids from their supplier doesn't absolve them of the responsibility - if they have to go out and have a run done, then they must.

Now, for US buyers; does that seven year clock start ticking based on the parent company's last date of manufacture of the model? Or does it apply to the date of the last manufactured unit imported to the country and sold domestically? After all, Yamaha USA is a separate corporate entity . Perhaps the clock starts ticking only when the last unit of the last model year is sold?

THAT I have no clue about.

But they ARE selling 2011s in Europe - and they are manufactured for the 2011 model year by Yamaha in Japan. That much is certain.. .

 

[bramfrank]

I'm denied access to edit posts, so this has to be in a separate reply:

Heck with the exception of color, the old C10 had no changes whatsoever to the design from 1994 through 2006, which was the last year of manufacture - The bike started life as a parts bin machine - beyond some specific parts and the frame there was nothing special about the model and they didn't order some parts for literally more than a decade, using up their inventory..

By your logic, all those machines would have been 2004 models and they could have denied parts to owners even before the model was discontinued.

 

[palerider]

I'm denied access to edit posts, so this has to be in a separate reply:

Heck with the exception of color, the old C10 had no changes whatsoever to the design from 1994 through 2006, which was the last year of manufacture - The bike started life as a parts bin machine - beyond some specific parts and the frame there was nothing special about the model and they didn't order some parts for literally more than a decade, using up their inventory..

By your logic, all those machines would have been 2004 models and they could have denied parts to owners even before the model was discontinued.

If they're manufactured from the same parts, then they effectively are 2004's, just VIN-stamped and marketed as 2005s or whatever year. That's common with vehicles that don't change from year to year (or the manufacturer makes some trivial change--color or tail-light shape--and proclaims it a newer, better model). That happened with my 2006 Honda CR-V, which had a different color turn-signal lens from the 2005 but that was otherwise identical.

And I still can't find anywhere, European or otherwise, any Yamaha marketing material for a 2011 AS, only A. Dealers may be selling them, and Yamaha may be assembling them from parts inventories, but that doesn't mean that Yamaha is continuing to order parts for them, and it doesn't mean Yamaha hasn't discontinued them.

 

[bramfrank]

Fine. COntinue to live in denial and when you go to sell your Honda, remember that it is really a 2005, so it isn't worth as much as a 2006 would be.

 

[bramfrank]

By the way, the owners manual for the AS on the Euro web site was initially released in July 2010, making it co-incident with the release of the 2011 model year machines.

Further, if you go to Yamaha's Portuguese site and select the FJR1300AS you have a comparison drop box for the 2010 and 2011 model years - different photos come up (though the only real difference is that photo and the bike's colors).

Links (note th page titles on the Tab in your browser, by the way):

2011

https://www.yamaha-motor.pt/pt/produtos/motociclos/desportivasturismo/fjr1300as.aspx?view=explore&year=2011#

2010

https://www.yamaha-motor.pt/pt/produtos/motociclos/desportivasturismo/fjr1300as.aspx?view=explore&year=2010#

It's real. There is an '11 YCCS machine for sale out there.

 

[cruppelt]

Like this other guy, you're talking out of your *** too.

:******:

That's from me to you while talking out of my ***.

I have been a Mechanical Engineer working in/with/for product production environments for 25 years. I started designing sawmill machinery, went on to custom wafer handling, tons of robotic manufacturing cells, automatic pcb test machinery, ink cartridge production, printers, oscilloscopes and now signal analyzers.

When you finish assembling, no matter what parts are in the assembly or how old they are, it will have the year on it from when you finish the assembly. The important part here is really when you buy it and when the warranty starts.

What you really want to know, but are not asking for, is what the intentions are of Yamaha Japan for continuing or stopping the AE/AS model world -wide once the current part inventory runs out. Well, you can let everybody else know what you found out when you come back from the secret Yamaha board meetings in Japan.

 

[palerider]

Fine. COntinue to live in denial and when you go to sell your Honda, remember that it is really a 2005, so it isn't worth as much as a 2006 would be.

Denial of what? I have no idea what you're talking about. A 2006 is still a 2006.

 

[palerider]

Like this other guy, you're talking out of your *** too.

:******:

That's from me to you while talking out of my ***.

I have been a Mechanical Engineer working in/with/for product production environments for 25 years. I started designing sawmill machinery, went on to custom wafer handling, tons of robotic manufacturing cells, automatic pcb test machinery, ink cartridge production, printers, oscilloscopes and now signal analyzers.

When you finish assembling, no matter what parts are in the assembly or how old they are, it will have the year on it from when you finish the assembly. The important part here is really when you buy it and when the warranty starts.

What you really want to know, but are not asking for, is what the intentions are of Yamaha Japan for continuing or stopping the AE/AS model world -wide once the current part inventory runs out. Well, you can let everybody else know what you found out when you come back from the secret Yamaha board meetings in Japan.

Well bully for you. I'm not the one making authoritative-sounding statements about what Yamaha is and isn't doing.

 

[ScottyUSN]

It's clear the AE's flooded the US market placing the power of supply and demand in the buyers favor. One of my main reasons for buying the AE was price.

I don't believe Yamaha is anywhere near giving up on the AE/AS model. I suspect once Yamaha USA feels the supply and demand returns in the sellers favor they will bring it back to the states in smaller numbers that allow Yamaha to sell the machines at a price point that turns a profit. That of course will not happen as long as leftovers remain on the shelf.

 

[smellthat?]

I suspect that within the seven years part deal that has been discussed (ad nauseum) a new model will be released at least I hope so. Said it before - I love the AE and would definitely buy another one in the future.

 

[palerider]

I suspect that within the seven years part deal that has been discussed (ad nauseum) a new model will be released at least I hope so. Said it before - I love the AE and would definitely buy another one in the future.

Since it's been mentioned in this thread exactly once, you have a very low nausea threshold.

 

[cruppelt]

Well bully for you. I'm not the one making authoritative-sounding statements about what Yamaha is and isn't doing.

I guess that must be me then, since I so clearly stated that I know exactly what Yamaha is doing.

I understand that you think some of the answers are not very meaningful, but you are just coming strongly across as the answer police, which is not a particular endearing trait considering what kind of board this is.

Is it Friday yet?

 

[Barry 07 FJR1300AE]

I'll just convert my AE to an A when AE specific parts are no longer available!!! Don't say it can't be done!!! Now who's **** is bigger!!! You bickering old men crack me up!!! It's Friday for me!!!

 

[cruppelt]

I'll just convert my AE to an A when AE specific parts are no longer available!!! Don't say it can't be done!!! Now who's **** is bigger!!! You bickering old men crack me up!!! It's Friday for me!!!

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

 

[smellthat?]

I suspect that within the seven years part deal that has been discussed (ad nauseum) a new model will be released at least I hope so. Said it before - I love the AE and would definitely buy another one in the future.

Since it's been mentioned in this thread exactly once, you have a very low nausea threshold.

Dude you spent several posts complaining about whether the damn this was actually in service so you could still get parts - it was a running theme of your posts. Excuse me that you didn't reiterate your thoughts each time you posted another stupid point when others were trying to provide some help.

 

[palerider]

Well bully for you. I'm not the one making authoritative-sounding statements about what Yamaha is and isn't doing.

I guess that must be me then, since I so clearly stated that I know exactly what Yamaha is doing.

I understand that you think some of the answers are not very meaningful, but you are just coming strongly across as the answer police, which is not a particular endearing trait considering what kind of board this is.

Is it Friday yet?

Hey, I've got a great idea! Don't participate in a thread you don't find useful!

 

[palerider]

I suspect that within the seven years part deal that has been discussed (ad nauseum) a new model will be released at least I hope so. Said it before - I love the AE and would definitely buy another one in the future.

Since it's been mentioned in this thread exactly once, you have a very low nausea threshold.

Dude you spent several posts complaining about whether the damn this was actually in service so you could still get parts - it was a running theme of your posts. Excuse me that you didn't reiterate your thoughts each time you posted another stupid point when others were trying to provide some help.

So on your planet, adding an "ad nauseum" comment is considered "trying to provide some help?"