Yami Dealers

[SkooterG]

Words of wisdom. Well said Tony, I think you nailed it.

As always, thanks for your perspective and input.

 

[I'mAllIn]

lotecredneck/Tony,
Thanks for sharing the info and a dealers perspective.  Clearly the FJR came to the USA because the 'presold' method.  It doesn't take long visit to Europe and/or Asia to see that the USA gets less than half of the world's model choices [bikes or cars].  

I look forward to meeting you in person when I pickup my FJR later this year. 

Rublenoon

aka: Young

If you look at the Europe site you will see that we have models that they don't get. This is simply what is popular in each country. We have a passion for a particular type of bike and that passion isn't neccesarily shared by the majority here in the U.S. Cruisers are still the big thing here in the U.S. and it hasn't shown any sign of waivering. Until that changes the manufacturers will continue to feed the U.S. market a steady dose of cruisers.

The manufacurers look at market segments and what manufacturers are the major players in a particular segment and then weigh the evidence to see if the cost of bringing a new model to our country will be beneficial to them. Meeting EPA standards is an expensive proposition!

For arguments sake let say that the Adventure Touring segment sells 2800 bikes per year in the U.S. (I have no idea this is strictly hypothetical) and the manufacturers are BMW with 2 models, Suzuki with 2 models, Kawasaki with 1 model and Triumph with 1 model. This means that if the sales were distributed evenly which they are NOT then that leaves each model a total sales number of 467 units per year!

This would not be cost effectiveI don't believe in the eyes of the manufacturer. The sport touring segment has shown some signs of growth in the past few years, but not the numbers that will excite the manufacturers to bring a lot of this type model to the U.S.

Look at the Kawasaki Concours, it has remained basically unchanged since it's inception and Honda has just recently changed the ST which remained essentially unchanged for 10 years. Both of these are great bikes, there just wasn't enough demand to justify changes every few years like there is in the cruiser and sport bike segments. BMW continues to change their models as this is a company that basically only builds this type of bike and has created a niche market.

This is just my .02 worth.

Regards,

Tony Orihuela

Ditto.

As Tony mentioned numerous times, the PDP simply guarantees a bike to everybody who wants one, which ain't a bad thing. Luckily for me, there are great dealers, like Tony, out there with the foresight to order extra machines for the late buyers, like me.

I too am looking forward to meeting Tony and the gang in April, when I pick up my new bike.

Best regards,

 

[bender]

OK, here is the next question to Tony or anyone who may know:

Are the VIN numbers tied to individual claim numbers and buyer names? For example, if an FJR comes into a dealer, and a claim number holder is not ready to take delivery, can another claim number owner at that dealership take that bike?

The reason why I ask this, is that my dealer ordered two FJR's (one A, one AE) under the owner. The owner is actually going to take the AE. That order was done Sept 28th. I placed an order in November for an A. The dealer promised that I would get the first A that came in. If the VIN is tied to a claim number and that name, then they lose the $500. The dealer says VIN tying was the way it was in the early days, but not now.

Any ideas?

 

[lotecredneck]

OK, here is the next question to Tony or anyone who may know:
Are the VIN numbers tied to individual claim numbers and buyer names? For example, if an FJR comes into a dealer, and a claim number holder is not ready to take delivery, can another claim number owner at that dealership take that bike?

The reason why I ask this, is that my dealer ordered two FJR's (one A, one AE) under the owner. The owner is actually going to take the AE. That order was done Sept 28th. I placed an order in November for an A. The dealer promised that I would get the first A that came in. If the VIN is tied to a claim number and that name, then they lose the $500. The dealer says VIN tying was the way it was in the early days, but not now.

Any ideas?

Bender,

The VIN is no longer tied to a particular order. There is a list of customers and when the bike is sold we simply put the serial number in the field next to the customer name that received that particular VIN. I bet when these things were tied to a particular customer there were problems of epic proportions!

Best regards,

Tony Orihuela

Yamaha Sportscenter

 

[flyinlow]

Tony, I understand your point but there is also the point of "nothing ventured, nothing gained". Everything Yamaha had at the time said the FJR wouldn't sell here, so they came up with the PDP so that they didn't have a bunch sitting around. Well, it appears that the sales for the FJR have been rather good so all the marketing and surveys aren't going to help you. Sometimes you have to take a leap of faith.

The biggest problem with the US market is the requirement that manufacturers maintain parts for 7 years. So if you introduce a bike and it flops, you now have to maintain parts for 7 years for a bike no one wanted. The rest of the world is typically three years. Thats why we won't see bikes like the KTM Super Duke or the MotoMorini Corsaro. Honda won't sell the CB1000F naked here for the same reasons.

Kawasaki and the Concours have it wrong. That bike is so old and out of date its amazing. The sales, contrary to what a Kawi rep tells you, are not brisk. Granted, everyone they sell is alot of profit because the tooling was paid for years ago. I know a few Kawasaki owners who are chomping at the bit for a modern version that will compete with the FJR.

 

[lotecredneck]

Tony, I understand your point but there is also the point of "nothing ventured, nothing gained". Everything Yamaha had at the time said the FJR wouldn't sell here, so they came up with the PDP so that they didn't have a bunch sitting around. Well, it appears that the sales for the FJR have been rather good so all the marketing and surveys aren't going to help you. Sometimes you have to take a leap of faith.
The biggest problem with the US market is the requirement that manufacturers maintain parts for 7 years. So if you introduce a bike and it flops, you now have to maintain parts for 7 years for a bike no one wanted. The rest of the world is typically three years. Thats why we won't see bikes like the KTM Super Duke or the MotoMorini Corsaro. Honda won't sell the CB1000F naked here for the same reasons.

Kawasaki and the Concours have it wrong. That bike is so old and out of date its amazing. The sales, contrary to what a Kawi rep tells you, are not brisk. Granted, everyone they sell is alot of profit because the tooling was paid for years ago. I know a few Kawasaki owners who are chomping at the bit for a modern version that will compete with the FJR.

Yamaha was reluctant in my opinion to bring the FJR in the U.S. due to the poor response the GTS recieved in 1993 and 1994. If the actual sales numbers that have been speculated for the GTS are correct, (712) for both years then I wouldn't take that chance either based on that information!

The GTS was very expensive and had features that shocked the motorcycling public, but was in fact a VERY GOOD motorcycle and even today has a cult following much like the V-Max.

If Yamaha took a chance and brought the MT-01, which I hope they DO NOT bring, how many do you think they would sell? What about the TRICKER? There are certain models that simply won;t sell in this market in the numbers that would make it feasible for Yamaha to make that move.

The FJR has put to rest the fact that the U.S. market won't support that type of motorcycle and if hadn;t been for the PDP program we would have never known that! This program is a great platform to introduce questionable models to the U.S. market to see if there is in fact a market here to support that item. This would be a perfect program for the TDM900 because the dealer network would never support this bike due to the poor sales of this model in '92 and '93 even though this is one of Europe's top selling motorcycles.

Best regards,

Tony Orihuela

Yamaha Sportscenter

 

[madmike2]

Well spoken, TOny. Well spoken.

 

[S76]

This is a very interesting thread. Thanks for all the information and enlightenment. It does however, bring up some questions in my mind that others may know.

About how may FJR's are sold each year in this country?

And how does this compare to other popular models?

Is the FJR still a small part of the big picture?

Thanks

 

[lotecredneck]

This is a very interesting thread. Thanks for all the information and enlightenment. It does however, bring up some questions in my mind that others may know.
About how may FJR's are sold each year in this country?

And how does this compare to other popular models?

Is the FJR still a small part of the big picture?

Thanks

Bob,

Yamaha is very tight lipped with production and sales numbers. There have been speculated sales figures, but they are just that. It is my understanding that the '06 has sold exceptionally well, but it is a miniscule figure compared to the cruiser segment.

I do believe that there will be considerably more of the FJR sold in the U.S. this year than the FZ1 if the numbers I am hearing are correct.

Tony

 

[gr8eyes]

Take this with a grain of salt, but I remember seeing figures in the 1200 to 1300 the first year. 1500 to 1600 for the 04. They may have been guesses though. Don't remember seeing 05 figures. These figures were on the fjrowners site a couple years ago IIRC.

Glenn

Which, if correct would be miniscule compared to the cruiser segment as well as the sportbike segment.

Tony why would Yamaha be reluctant to make these figures public?

 

[lotecredneck]

Take this with a grain of salt, but I remember seeing figures  in the 1200 to 1300 the first year. 1500 to 1600 for the 04. They may have been guesses though. Don't remember seeing 05 figures. These figures were on the fjrowners site a couple years ago IIRC.
Glenn

Which, if correct would be miniscule compared to the cruiser segment as well as the sportbike segment.

Tony why would Yamaha be reluctant to make these figures public?

Glenn,

I have often wondered that myself! All the oem's are reluctant to release any sales numbers other than by segment. I think they feel it will be used by one of the other manufacturers somehow to beat them at something!!

The only way to obtain any type of information is from state registrations and that won't show unsold units in dealers inventory. I'm hearing that the '06 sales are appoaching 5 digits which is still a paltry number compared to the cruiser numbers.

Tony

 

[madmike2]

Ithink I read somewhere that ont of the sites was of the opinion that the '03 numbers were closer to 2,000 with the '04s closer to 3,000. But as you say, its all a mental exercise without hard numbers.

 

[BobbyBlue]

Thanks Gents for some very good interesting banter !

Tony, I had the pleasure of attending the final week of "The Art of the Motorcycle" in Memphis in late Oct. and towards the end there was a pristine GTS next to The Britten V1000 next to a Duc 916...man it was AWESOME !!! And Thanks for your perspective ! PDP,STP,PCP, or BVDs, lots of us are just happy Mammy Yammy imported ze machine for our conspicuous consumption as we feejer fodder make up a very small boil on the great butt of YamaMama.....time for my pills.....

Bobby

 

[Groo]

Tony,

Thanks for all the input... it's nice to be able to hear from an existing dealer to help take some of the mystery out of what Yamaha is doing in the background. And as you mentioned, for someone like me who was willing to wait 6 months, I got the bike at a significant discount to what I would have paid otherwise... and it gave me half a year to build up a farkle-pile...

 

[TPadden]

... and it gave me half a year to build up a farkle-pile... 

.... gives me the chance to make the decision between a BMW K1200GT and the FJR!

 

[SkooterG]

.... gives me the chance to make the decision between a BMW K1200GT and the FJR!

It doesn't matter which one you choose. I mean, you are probably one of these guys that never rides the dang bike anyways. Just like to collect garage queens.



[SIZE=7pt]Very impressive list of skoots you got there![/SIZE]

 

[TPadden]

It doesn't matter which one you choose.  I mean, you are probably one of these guys that never rides the dang bike anyways.  Just like to collect garage queens.

Yep - it took all of 10 months to take the K1200LT off it's 3 year 36K mile warranty ...... that's why I'm taking it easy on the R1150RS.

All the bikes in my stable were purchased new and I'll never understand how people sell bikes with less than 10K on them. My wife lets me get whatever I want as long as I put at least 20K on a bike before I get rid of it ....... and I can convince her they all have a different purpose and more importantly are a different color.

My youngest son gets the FZ1 this summer, so there will be room for another BLUE bike ....... my decision is get rid of the LT and get a GT or keep it and add an FJR ...... currently leaning towards the FJR.

 

[SkooterG]

....... my decision is get rid of the LT and get a GT or keep it and add an FJR ...... currently leaning towards the FJR.

Well...........

I am obviously biased, but given your propensity for kraut krap, I think its time to try something a little different - the FJR!!!!

My highly edu-macated guess is that you will love it. But if you don't, sell it before you put your 20k on it and tell your wifey that it was the fault of some moron that goes by SkooterG on the FJRForum!

Oh, and welcome to the nuthouse!

 

[MCRIDER007]

The FJR has put to rest the fact that the U.S. market won't support that type of motorcycle and if hadn;t been for the PDP program we would have never known that! This program is a great platform to introduce questionable models to the U.S. market to see if there is in fact a market here to support that item.

Tony, thank you for your insight but once the market for the FJR was established, what is Yamaha's rationale to continue the PDP since neither the dealers or the customers like it?

An even bigger mystery is Yamaha's allocation system for new/sport bikes. Once the decision is made to bring a model to the US, such as the new FZ1, why doesn't Yamaha produce enough bikes to meet the dealers' requests? It seems that if the dealer is willing to order/buy XX number of FZ1s then he has assumed the risk for selling them and Yamaha should be more than willing to manufature same. I would like to buy a 2006 FZ1 but none of the dealers in my area were allocated any because they didn't sell an FZ1 last year -- which means they will not sell any this year either. They used to call that Catch 22.

 

[TPadden]

I am obviously biased, but given your propensity for kraut krap, .....

Thanks for the welcome; my wife would understand your math!

2 Kraut vs 4 Jap = ?????

Anyone else would mention the lack of Eye-Tie! Even though I still have my 1975 Moto Guzzi 850T, that I bought in Milan and toured Europe on in 75, I don't list it because it needs 2 tires and a battery and I currently don't ride it.

We agree though - everything I've read about the 06 FJR leads me to think it will be a keeper.