06 Needs New FI Map

Yamaha FJR Motorcycle Forum

Help Support Yamaha FJR Motorcycle Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
You will never be able to fix the throttle response problems on the 06 by trying to play tricks with the fuel map. The root cause of the problem is the non-linear action of the throttle assy due to the newly modified progressive pulley put on the 06 model.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the existing map in the bike that needs fixing, and trying to fix the jerky throttle by changing the map is just plain wrong, as that is not the cause of the problem, and I can prove it (and have on several bikes).

While a Power Commander may be of some value in being able to tweak the map to make the bike run the way you want it to, it is not going to fix the jerky throttle on the 06 all by itself. If you want to fix the problem, you need to go to the source that causes it.
Fred you may be right. I'm no engineer. I just hope there is a fix that just costs a few bucks and is an "easy" modification; for those of us buggers that don't have the expertise to pull the thing apart and engineer your mod. I admit I'd rather work some overtime for a PCIII. Good to have you back.

 
You will never be able to fix the throttle response problems on the 06 by trying to play tricks with the fuel map. The root cause of the problem is the non-linear action of the throttle assy due to the newly modified progressive pulley put on the 06 model.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the existing map in the bike that needs fixing, and trying to fix the jerky throttle by changing the map is just plain wrong, as that is not the cause of the problem, and I can prove it (and have on several bikes).

While a Power Commander may be of some value in being able to tweak the map to make the bike run the way you want it to, it is not going to fix the jerky throttle on the 06 all by itself. If you want to fix the problem, you need to go to the source that causes it.
How do you figure Fred? what you accomplished with a shim, can be accomplished by moving the air/fuel mixture at rpm up/down relative to the throttle position. All you did by putting the shim in is reducing the rate at which the throttle cable accelerates. Now why can't we do the same thing without a shim, but adjusting the fi map? This isn't a carbureated bike! Although I have the utmost respect for the solution you came up with, you aren't exactly close by to help out with this mod and jamming a foreign object in my throttle pully does not seem like a good idea to me.

Ok,

this bike really needs a new FI map to cover the lower end and get rid of the jerky low rpm resonpse. I know about the Fred shim, but frankly, it's just wrong. The BMW K1200S had this problem and BMW stepped up to the plate and fixed it. The question is will Yamaha? How hard can it be for them to reprogram the ECU with the correct FI map?

Giddy'p :clapping:
Cries for more evidence? Need more people to complain? Man they sure jumped on you, didn't they!

Lol, everyone on this forum is too worried about perception. It almost seems like they all work for mamayama or something ;) It's not a problem, it just a coincidence that this post to this point has over 1500 views.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
How do you figure Fred? what you accomplished with a shim, can be accomplished by moving the air/fuel mixture at rpm up/down relative to the throttle position
All you can change with the fuel map is alter how wide the fuel injector pulses are at a given throttle position setting. You can't add or subtract air flow, as that is controlled by the throttle plates themselves. Once the throttle plates begin to open and the engine is off idle, they are the single controlling element for air flow rate changes. Fuel management is there to provide the proper ratio of fuel for the given amount of air coming in, and that ratio is kept in a very narrow range to provide for efficient and clean engine operation and fuel burn.

So the only thing you could do to try to smooth it out with a change to the fuel map, would be to add LOTS of fuel, and make the mixture way overly rich to the point that the engine is near stalling out - in a feeble attempt to tone down the power output at low rpms. The overly rich mixture can and will cause other problems and will most likely result in more carbon build up on your valves and pistons over time as well as possibly clogging up the catalytic converters. The purpose of fine tuning an engine map is for making very small adjustments to correct lean surging or flat spots, not for making large whole scale changes to it. Furthermore, I suspect you would find that there isn't enough adjustability in the map to overcome the airflow rate, so you probably wouldn't be successful anyway.

The manufacture of any vehicle spends literally hundreds of hours with engines on dynos and high dollar (4 gas) gas analyzers as well as on a test track before they get the ignition timing and fuel maps all dialed in for best engine operation, fuel burn, emissions, and drive ability. While it may be set in some respects with regards to emissions, overall it will be a very well developed fuel map that will result in long vehicle life, and efficient and smooth engine operation.

The root cause of the problem is that the throttle plates open too far and too fast at small throttle grip angles, and the reason this happens is the progressive pulley. This causes large scale changes to the incoming air flow rates and very small changes in the throttle grip result in larger changes at the throttle plates, making it hard to control the bike at low rpms.

I am sure there are plenty of other ways to fix the throttle pulley than using the copper shim like I did. You could probably remove the pulley from the throttle body and you would be able to work on it better. I made certain when I put the shim in mine that there was no way it could come out, and I very carefully shaped it to fit the pulley and stay held in, so it is more like a custom made part for the pulley, and is not a "piece of FOD" just jammed in the throttles. FOD is defined as a Foreign Object, this is a custom made part designed with a purpose and made to fit and held securely in place.

Someone else used a rubber O ring, and that is also probably a good idea, and may actually be better than my copper shim, if you can be sure it won't move once inserted. There are probably other ways to attack this problem as well, for instance you could mill the groove deeper that the throttle cable fits in at the leading edge of the throttle grip itself to create a reverse progressive pitch throttle grip to counteract the progressive pitch on the pulley.

Sometimes I wonder if someone at the vendor that builds the throttle plates didn't read the blue prints wrong and make the pitch on the throttle pulley exactly opposite of what was intended. I could understand making the throttle plates open faster at high throttle angles, but I don't understand doing it at low throttle angles where you need fine controllability and I am also surprised Yamaha didn't discover this in testing of the bike and correct it.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Well, I'm hoping the PCIII will have some effect in fixing the flatspots at low rpm and smooth out the power delivery (assuming that the issues surrounding the flatspot are emissions related). If mamayama kept the engine lean at low rpm before the closed loop system kicks in, that could also explain the abruptness before the power kicking in?

If the problem ultimately amounts to reducing the rate of phsically opening the throttle plates, then we will just have to have you over to the west coast for a visit to do the Fred H. mod :)

I read quite a few reviews of the fzr and the reviewers have blasted the new bike for low rpm flatspots at low rpm as well.

 
Fred,

I agree with you !00%, but, my bike will still surge ever so slightly in those 20 MPH zones with steady state throttle. With steady state throttle at low RPM, (granted this is a tiny fraction of the time on a bike) the throttle linkage is not the factor. This trait shows the mapping problem. When you are getting jerked around when trying to be smooth applying the gas, this shows the linkage problem. Bottom line, as far as I can tell, is the bike needs all four mods. Five really. No six.

Throttle slack adjustment

Throttle spring mod

Barbarian adjustment

Your linkage mod. (I prefer to insert an O-ring using your theory)

Setting the idle to 1200 RPM's (No more stalling when you pull the clutch in. I too almost dropped mine due to this)

Grip Puppies for a slower throttle response.

Once all of these are done the bike is so close to perfect I can live with the little 20 MPH surge that remains. Not worth the money for a PCIII to me.

The bottom line is: there are enough improvement areas to go around. No one silver bullet here.

Glad to see you back!

bob

 
I have done all the mods listed above except the Fred mod and feel it will be the answer for my abrupt throttle response off idle. At this point (4000 miles) I am very happy and have very little surge, just the damn throttle opening too fast (and closing too fast) makes it tough in the low speed twisties... I have an '06A number 0078.

 
Robert,

Before you go and do something drastic such as introducing a foreign object into your throttle linkage, take a look at the posts regarding the pciii for the 2006 FJR. Fred is a professional and understands the risks he's taking by jamming (sorry Fred couldn't resist) a foreign object in his throttle linkage. The rest of you you amatuers may be better served by inserting a much more complicated piece of electronic gear between the ecu and the fuel injectors ;)

 
Robert,Before you go and do something drastic such as introducing a foreign object into your throttle linkage, take a look at the posts regarding the pciii for the 2006 FJR. Fred is a professional and understands the risks he's taking by jamming (sorry Fred couldn't resist) a foreign object in his throttle linkage. The rest of you you amatuers may be better served by inserting a much more complicated piece of electronic gear between the ecu and the fuel injectors ;)
+1

Well said.

 
You will never be able to fix the throttle response problems on the 06 by trying to play tricks with the fuel map. The root cause of the problem is the non-linear action of the throttle assy due to the newly modified progressive pulley put on the 06 model.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the existing map in the bike that needs fixing, and trying to fix the jerky throttle by changing the map is just plain wrong, as that is not the cause of the problem, and I can prove it (and have on several bikes).

While a Power Commander may be of some value in being able to tweak the map to make the bike run the way you want it to, it is not going to fix the jerky throttle on the 06 all by itself. If you want to fix the problem, you need to go to the source that causes it.
Fred,

I'm not sure what you mean by throttle response problems but I can't see how your shim in the pulley could fix the problem I keep reading in this thread. That is the jerky surging at steady low rpms. Whenever I would go through a 20mph school zone I would feel it and I am not moving the throttle at all. I tried the Barbarian jumper mod and that helped but it was still noticeable. I put in the PCIII and problem solved. I can go through that long 20mph school zone and it runs smooth as silk.

 
I'm not sure what you mean by throttle response problems but I can't see how your shim in the pulley could fix the problem I keep reading in this thread. That is the jerky surging at steady low rpms. Whenever I would go through a 20mph school zone I would feel it and I am not moving the throttle at all. I tried the Barbarian jumper mod and that helped but it was still noticeable. I put in the PCIII and problem solved. I can go through that long 20mph school zone and it runs smooth as silk.
Bingo!

As unfortunate as it is that these issues are encountered with the FJR in "stock" form, I am glad you were able to find a solution to the problems.

 
The Fred H Mod was the answer all along ! It changes the profile of the pully and you don't get a 1/3 throttle with very lttle input anymore. When done right the Fred H mod will not move & fits nicley in the groove with cable running over top when wire is smoothed for cable to ride on. 90% of jerky off/on is now gone & am able to ride twisties with confidence again, probably 10% is backlash in drivetrain ...

This is the easiest fix and most complete for the problem until a new pully is offered. My background was building,servicing, selling parts & service manager for a few motorcycle shops over 10 years & 40 + years riding ....

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The Fred H Mod was the answer all along ! It changes the profile of the pully and you don't get a 1/3 throttle with very lttle input anymore. When done right the Fred H mod will not move & fits nicley in the groove with cable running over top when wire is smoothed for cable to ride on. 90% of jerky off/on is now gone & am able to ride twisties with confidence again, probably 10% is backlash in drivetrain ...This is the easiest fix and most complete for the problem until a new pully is offered. My background was building,servicing, selling parts & service manager for a few motorcycle shops over 10 years & 40 + years riding ....
Huh?

Please explain to me how changing the profile of the throttle cam or "pully" as you say has any effect whatsoever on steady throttle surging as fjrbob and others describe above. All those years of experience must have taught you to alter the laws of physics?

 
All those years of experience must have taught you to alter the laws of physics?
crylarfing.gif
crylarfing.gif
crylarfing.gif
crylarfing.gif
crylarfing.gif
crylarfing.gif
crylarfing.gif


 
I stated it fixed the jerky on/off throttle or didn't you read my post ? I don't have a surging problem, may have bee fixed by either the TBS I did or the mod to allow richening the FI, but I know what worked for me..end of story. If you haven't tried it or done anything else to help, you're just wasting others time. Now you can go and play your games on someone less experienced.....

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I stated it fixed the jerky on/off throttle or didn't you read my post ? I don't have a surging problem, may have bee fixed by either the TBS I did or the mod to allow richening the FI, but I know what worked for me..end of story. If you haven't tried it or done anything else to help, you're just wasting others time. Now you can go and play your games on someone less experienced.....
Go back and read the original post and what most of us have been saying in this thread. The problem we are talking about is the jerky surging at low, steady rpms. There is no way that changing the throttle pulley is going to fix this. If you don't have the surging problem...that's great, but I don't see how Fred's pulley shim is the fix for this threads described problem. You mention the mod to allow richening the FI, which I am guessing you mean the Barbarian jumper mod. That helped, but not completely for my bike, and again points to the original problem with the FI map.

 
O.K. missed it . Just stated the things that fixed, for the most part, my problems......Guess warpchild is the physician then ?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I stated it fixed the jerky on/off throttle or didn't you read my post ? I don't have a surging problem, may have bee fixed by either the TBS I did or the mod to allow richening the FI, but I know what worked for me..end of story. If you haven't tried it or done anything else to help, you're just wasting others time. Now you can go and play your games on someone less experienced.....
Go back and read the original post and what most of us have been saying in this thread. The problem we are talking about is the jerky surging at low, steady rpms. There is no way that changing the throttle pulley is going to fix this. If you don't have the surging problem...that's great, but I don't see how Fred's pulley shim is the fix for this threads described problem. You mention the mod to allow richening the FI, which I am guessing you mean the Barbarian jumper mod. That helped, but not completely for my bike, and again points to the original problem with the FI map.
I have no idea whether Fred's mod works because I haven't tried it, but on what solid factual evidence-based basis can you say it won't. Until you try it on your bike and conclude "problem not solved" you're simply guessing. A non-linear throttle mechanism where, at low end, a small twist produces a large change in signal to the FI system, could very produce a surge-like effect.

CDR said:
I stated it fixed the jerky on/off throttle or didn't you read my post ? I don't have a surging problem, may have bee fixed by either the TBS I did or the mod to allow richening the FI, but I know what worked for me..end of story. If you haven't tried it or done anything else to help, you're just wasting others time. Now you can go and play your games on someone less experienced.....
Go back and read the original post and what most of us have been saying in this thread. The problem we are talking about is the jerky surging at low, steady rpms. There is no way that changing the throttle pulley is going to fix this. If you don't have the surging problem...that's great, but I don't see how Fred's pulley shim is the fix for this threads described problem. You mention the mod to allow richening the FI, which I am guessing you mean the Barbarian jumper mod. That helped, but not completely for my bike, and again points to the original problem with the FI map.
I have no idea whether Fred's mod works because I haven't tried it, but on what solid factual evidence-based basis can you say it won't. Until you try it on your bike and conclude "problem not solved" you're simply guessing. A non-linear throttle mechanism where, at low end, a small twist produces a large change in signal to the FI system, could very produce a surge-like effect.
To add ... everyone talks about steady throttle. On my machine, if I actually hold the throttle steady, the engine runs at a constant rpm. How can you be sure you aren't making small change in throttle position, and creating a surging problem that way. To counter your argument then, how does changin the FI map affect performace at any single throttle setting, as it too will be producing a constant feed for a constant input from the throttle.

 
If you are referring to "lean surging" which is caused by the mixture being too lean, you are correct, a shim won't do anything to address that. However, my 06 didn't have a significant lean surge issue, and what little it did have, was removed by increasing the base fuel mixture setting by about 7 increments on all cylinders (after changing one wire on the ECU [barbarian Mod]).

The "sensitive throttle" issue is a whole other animal, and is indeed caused by the new progressive pitch pulley on the 06, and this is what the shim fix is for, at least until someone comes up with a better solution.

IN MY OPINION, there is absolutly no need for spending money on a "Power Commander" for this bike.

 
To counter your argument then, how does changin the FI map affect performace at any single throttle setting, as it too will be producing a constant feed for a constant input from the throttle.
it's been well-documented for the past 3 model years that the EFI mapping has to be extra lean to address EPA requirements. "The surge" (as seen on various different EFI bikes from BMW to the Feejer) is often a result of being on the cusp between 2 different parts of the map. Since it's a digital medium and not analog (like a carb) the computer can get into a mode where it's jumping back-and-forth between the upper and lower maps when in this "cusp". This leads to surging when under a steady throttle with no load (cruising in traffic at 25 to 30 mph on a level road). The PC3 is used to modify how the EFI doles out fuel so that the off-throttle result isn't chopped to 0 (zero) fuel and can richen the air:fuel mix so that transitions between sections of the EFI map aren't as abrupt/damatic. All of these work in concert to address the lean surging being discussed.

 
IN MY OPINION
:clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

Good post Fred!

I will say though, that I RESPECTFULLY disagree.

While I beleive the final verdict has not been reached on this issue, from the reports of those now installing a PCIII, it seems to be solving not only the "lean surging" condition but also the "sensitive throttle" issue. (Just as your shim does) I know the PCIII I installed on my 04 greatly increased what I call "throttle response" and which I believe to be the same as what you call "sensitive throttle".

So though both your shim and the PCIII seem to address the symptoms of whatever problem there is, I am personally not convinced that we have identified the Root Cause. And though I lean towards fuel mapping, unfortunately, I believe that convincingly identifying the root cause will be difficult to do.

Perhaps in the end, the root cause is a combination of both - fuel mapping AND the progressive throttle pulley.

 
Top