2006 FJR1300AE

[C&C]

Does the "E" shift still have a clutch handle to get you from stopped, in first, to moving? How does that part work? (Just asking cause I'm not gonna get one.)

 

[Randy]

No clutch lever. Just hit the gas and go - like you do in a car.

 

[RonBB]

Generally I'm in favor of having options for just about anything in life's journey. The E shift option is acceptable & good as an option, althought I don't think I personally would want it on an FJR-Maybe a 4 wheeler. I am generally against having no or few options. Personally I don't think I would want an FJR with linked brakes. They apparently have taken the option of not having them away. I may someday be forced into a bike with linked brakes to get a bike close to what I want. However, the manufacturers should expect that the fewer options available to get what we want, the more we will look to see how close we can get to what we want from their competitors. Personally (Are you listening Yahama) I don't want linked brakes on a "Super Sport Tourer" and it's not about money, or costs for it.

 

[brownant]

Logged many many miles on dirt roads and enough on packed sand and muddy with my Gold Wing, which is a bloated linked-braked sumo-wrestler of a bike, and had no (zero) problems with the linked nature of the brakes. In fact, running the '05 FJR with ABS posed greater problems on dirt than the Wing has. IMOH.

- brownant

 

[RadioHowie]

Sorry, I prefer to shift myself. Even my car (55 Chevy) is manual. I pulled and rebuild the engine last year and thought about switching to an auto, but just didn't seem right. Too much fun to drive the other way.

Once again, either some of you don't get it, or are being obstinate numbskulls just to get your post count up.

The Yamaha E-Shift is NOT an automatic transmission.

It is NOT a continuous variable transmission.

It is NOT a two speed transmission as in the old Honda CB750A.

It IS a manual, 5 speed transmission...the same exact transmission that's been in the FJR since it was first concieved, designed, built and delivered.

What is the E-Shift? It's an automatic clutch, hence no clutch lever. The driver STILL has to shift from 1st to 2nd to 3rd, etc. The only difference is you don't pull in the clutch lever to make the shift...you push a button.

Is this too difficult to understand? Pull in a lever...or push a button. YOU still control the upshifts and downshifts. There are still clutch plates in the motor. There is still a clutch release rod going through the engine case to a release bearing. There is still a shift lever by the left foot peg for shifting up and down.

The only difference is now there's a computer controlled servo that's replaced the clutch lever and you can shift with your fingers or your foot.

How does the bike move forward from a dead stop? If it's anything like the paddle-shift cars on the market, the ECU compares the engine speed with road speed and determines the clutch needs to be "pulled in" since the road speed is 0 and the engine speed is idle. Increase the engine speed with the throttle and the ECU engages the clutch, just like the driver would, but infinitely smoother, and the vehicle moves forward.

Do you get it now? Or are some of you going to be pinheads who refuse to understand that there are benefits of automation?

 

[RadioHowie]

I'm not even talking about the clutchless bike--I don't like that they've added even more weight, but some may like it. I KNOW that draggers like the electric clutchless shifting that kills the engine briefly when you are shifting. So maybe it WILL help. But I also suspect that the after-market kits for clutchless, push-button shifting add a hell of a lot less weight.

But...but...but...I expect that is a terrible misconception.

The aftermarket kits aren't replacing the clutches and attendant hardware already on the bikes they're installed on, so you STILL have the weight of the lever, the remote reservoir, the clutch master cylinder, the hydraulic line, the slave cylinder and the fluid...not an inconsequential amount of weight, I'd wager. The aftermarket kits are add-ons...not replacements.

With the Yamaha E-Shift, you're replacing most of that hardware with an ECU controlled servo.

You may not want to admit it, but it WILL shift faster and smoother than you ever can.

And you will NEVER stall at a traffic light by letting the clutch out before you've given it enought gas.

Don't ask me how I know.

 

[gr8eyes]

Good explanation Radiohowie. I'm not interested in it but I can see why some are. If your not quit griping about it, you've got the A model.

And, does 18 more lbs make that much difference in 0-60 times. Really. so it'll now go 0-60 in 11.09 sec instead of 11.07. What is everyone crying about, really.

Go home, get laid and you'll feel better tomorrow.

 

[RadioHowie]

And, does 18 more lbs make that much difference in 0-60 times. Really. so it'll now go 0-60 in 11.09 sec instead of 11.07.

The 18 pounds, if that's what the E-Shift costs the FJR, isn't gonna cost the bike anything in 0-60 times, 'cause the E-shift is gonna get back more than the .02 seconds you've allotted by being able to shift faster.

 

[ionbeam]

(gr8eyes @ Sep 30 2005, 01:06 PM) And, does 18 more lbs make that much difference in 0-60 times. Really. so it'll now go 0-60 in 11.09 sec instead of 11.07.

Hopefully your 0-60 times will be more like 3.0 seconds

It ain't 'bout the tranny, it's all the clutch. Feejer is very smart (ECU has plenty of HP left). Known values: rpms, VSS (vehicle speed sensor) tells the ECU if you are moving and how fast (mph) as well as rate of mph change, gear selection, rate of throttle change and % of throttle change. Calculations are made based on these inputs and the clutch will be actuated as required (within a performance range that Yamaha has predetermined). It is the performance range that Yamaha will allow that concerns me.

It is easy for the ECU to see that VSS = 0 (you are stopped), RPMs are at 1,000 (idle), no change in the throttle and you are in 1st gear -- when throttle % suddenly changes the ECU looks at rate of change and % of change then engages the clutch at a rate that has been programmed in. In theory small % of change and slow rate of change should produce a slow, light engagement; a large % change and fast rate of change should produce fast, firm engagement. Has Yamaha programmed in wheelies? While under way, clutch actuation is often coupled with retarding the timing and/or a small fuel trim so the clutch doesn't have to completely disengage. [Whaddya suppose happens when you become detached while riding your too automatic FJR and you forget to down shift leaving you sitting at a traffic light in 5th gear? Do ya suppose that fancy new gear indicator will flash angry red at you :lol: ]

I would hope to get very aggressive clutch engagement at New England Dragway. I would be :angry01: :angry02: :angry2: :angry03: if I couldn't effectively race my bike.

Alan

 

[RadioHowie]

Excellent analysis and your point of pre-programmed engagements is well taken.

Fuzzy-logic stuff. The ECU could be programmed to "remember" a sequence of recent shifts, so heavy traffic situations could be remembered for smooth, easy shifts. The same fuzzy logic could be employed for hard banging shifts as you strafe every apex on the Dragon's Tail.

However...your assessment that you've become too detached while riding your "too automatic" FJR and left it in 5th gear is off the mark. There's absolutely nothing more "automatic" in shifting a paddle-type transmission than shifting a clutch-type transmission. It's still up to the driver to "get it right". If you forget to downshift the AE, you're gonna stall it just like you would the A-model if you try to start off in 5th gear. BUT, you MAY be spot on in the gear indicator flashing at you like some nagging fishwife if you are stopped and the bike is not in 1st gear. That would be VERY easy for Yamaha's engineers to program in.

Oh, another good point about 3.0 second 0-60 times. Haven't tried it on my FJR yet, but on my ZRX, 0-60 doesn't involve a 1-2 shift, so the type of clutch doesn't come in to play. :bigeyes:

 

[twowheelnut]

Hmmm, and what about holding the gear you've chosen? I would hate to think that the ECU will also choose the next gear (up or down) when I want to hold that gear.

The tip-tronic in my Vdub holds the gear to redline before deciding that I don't know what I'm doing and shifts for me. Same when rolling to a stop; if I don't bump the gear selector down, the ECU will do it for me.

 

[RadioHowie]

Very good questions.

Is the AE simply an autoclutch? Or is it gonna be an autoshifter like the TipTronic.

Nothing on any Yamaha website indicates the E-Shift is anything but an automated clutch. Nowhere is there the slightest indication it's gonna shift up or down without input from the driver. You wanna float the valves and air-mail a piston? Go ahead...E-Shift will let you.

We'll know 100% for when someone drives one.

 

[ionbeam]

The info I have read seems clear that the transmission is exactly the same E Shift and non E Shift. The E Shift is clutch only. All gear selections are manual.

However...your assessment that you've become too detached while riding your "too automatic" FJR and left it in 5th gear is off the mark. There's absolutely nothing more "automatic" in shifting a paddle-type transmission than shifting a clutch-type transmission. It's still up to the driver to "get it right". If you forget to downshift the AE, you're gonna stall it just like you would the A-model if you try to start off in 5th gear.

I was just setting the stage, it would have been too short and simple to just say, "So there you sit at the light in 5th gear, you dumb ass ."

Alan

 

[RadioHowie]

That would be too funny....

Remember the Nissan Maxima "your door is ajar"

No, you stupid bitch, my peanut butter is IN a jar!

Voice prompts --

"Downshift, you newbie retard!"

"Countersteer, you're gonna stick me in a ditch!"

"Go buy a Harley, you worthless POS!"

The possibilities are endless.

 

[GJA]

Apparently "All the rider does is tell the ECU to change gears by either a pair of buttons on the left handlebar (thumb operated for downshifts, index finger for upshifts) or a lever residing in the conventional gear lever's location, which is attached to a sensor unit, not the transmission.

Y'all can have that one. I'll pass and hang onto my beautiful 05 that shifts fine just the way it is, thankyouverymuch.

I have my euro -04 ticker at Yamaha to get a new cylinder head and I wiill be glad to drive with it next summer again, I am not interested in a scooter.

 

[LiquidSilver]

Would a motorcycle be born gay, or is it made that way by its environment?

 

[yanktar]

Well, we don't KNOW if the AE is heavier than the A do we? Yamaha conveniently leaves that number for the AE off their specifications. And it's not just 18lbs heavier, it's 18lbs ON TOP of the 29 pounds heavier than the older ABS model.

My objections to the new bike is it is a lot heavier and adds LBS, but doesn't address the alternator or fuseblock issues.

When Honda introduced the CBX people's eyes popped. It was a TRUE 11.55 second bike--in 1979/1980. But a couple of years later the "same" bike couldn't get into the low 12's and people lost interest. Honda had cheated on the electricals and carburation because it was a little cheaper. When the bike was set up with the older peripherals, it got its speed back.

Nobody likes the new model being slower than the previous model. Well, ALMOST nobody (Hi there, ScooterG )

 

[radman]

Yuck. There's a lot I'll accept in the way of technology, but shifting (and clutching) are skills I took years to develop to the degree they are at now, I'll be damned if I'm giving them up to no new fangled doohickeys now.

Now, maybe you young un's can tell me how this thing keeps startin' without havin' ta tickle the carbs?

 

[RadioHowie]

Ahhhh, now we're getting to the crux of the matter.

It's not whether the technology is good or just "wow".

It's that you're a crusty old phuquer who refuses to accept change.

:aaevil:

 

[Knifemaker]

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Not sure why everyone is all upset at the AE version..if you do not like it don't buy it...I am getting the Cobalt Blue one. Not because I think the AE one is stupid, but because I just like to shift on my own, thank you..

KM