2007 Altitude Surging Problem - Members Wanted

[tophog]

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[greg97224]

Boy, I just joined yesterday after putting a deposit down on a new 07.Coming from a BMW that runs flawlessly.

I am starting to wonder if I shopuld back out of the deal before I get bit.

I have wanted one of these for the last two years but am I making a mistake?

I liv ein Pa which has up and downs everywhere one rides, albeit not to the same degree as the west

I would wait, I spent lots of money on a PCIII and a G2 throttle tube, while I think it made it 70 to 80 percent better, the problem still happens. I tell anyone who asks me the same thing, it isn't worth the heartache. It should be a great bike.

Greg

 

[dwilli]

Add another 07 to the list. It had 648 miles on it. Problem started at about 4500 ft and continued the whole trip, over several altitude changes. Damn near dropped the POS coming out of a hairpin turn at about 10 MPH. I gave it some gas to exit the turn and nothing. Glad I didn't have someone right behind me.

Stock bike, no changes or mods. Just like the F**CKIN' POS came from Yamaha. If I stopped and shut it off, the problem went away for a few minutes. Can't wait to get the bullshit run around from the dealer.

Everyone here with this problem should file a complaint with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (www.nhtsa.gov) this is a major saftey issue.

Has anyone suffered an injury or property damage as a result of this problem?

How long has Yamaha known about it?

Why hasn't someting been done?

Let's face it, Yamaha isn't going to fix the problem until they are forced to do so. It's a money issue for Yamaha. A recall would cost major bucks. We can piss and moan all we want to our local dealers and Yamaha. It's going to take the NHTSA to force the issue. The only way that will happen is if we file complaints.

If you have had a loss or injury as a result of the Surging problem document your injury and/or loss and submitt it along with your complaint to the NHTSA. That's how we'll get this problem solved.

 

[DPS]

After reading about the guy dumping his bike on gravel, I'm going the "Lemon Law" route. We have an agressive policy here in Washington and I think this problem qualifies under the "serious safety defect" guideline - two unsuccesful attempts by the dealer to correct the problem and Yamaha gets their bike back.

Unfortunately, it looks like the proccess takes several months, especially if the manufacturer contests it. I'll see what happens in the next couple weeks before buying something else. Sad, I really liked the bike, until today.

I don't see this problem getting fixed anytme soon and I'm furious they would not even warn new owners of a potential problem. It's summer, the mountain passes are open and, guess what, more and more people are going to discover this the hard way. Someone WILL eventually get hurt.

 

[TruWrecks]

Okay riders. Since I have been requesting VIN information from the owners that have problem bikes, and have only received a handful of responses, I'm going to send private messages to all that are currently on my list.

Again. I'm making a list for my dealer, Adventure Motorsports, and Yamaha. I'm try to identify a pattern on the surging issue.

This information will be kept private from any other third party.

If you have an 06 that is running fine there is no need to give me your info at this time. Right now I only want to identify the 07 FJR's that are having issues, unless I have sent you a message about your bike.

Thanks,

Doug

On a side note: When the FJR is running right, it's the best bike I've owned to date. When it's not it reminds me of my 81 Maxim 550 with two clogged carb jets!

 

[ELP_JC]

Several points. First, just like Stormrider (and DPS with a different bike), I also replaced my flawless-running BMW with this bike, to have something more reliable. But I was a bit more stupid, since I read about this issue, and a friend dealer who sold me the BMW (he lost the franchise since for refusing to go stand-alone) stopped all FJR orders due to being unable to fix customer's problems, and still went with it. But it was just sparsely mentioned a month ago, when I bought it, and never imagined being this bad. My bike has exactly 400 miles after today's trip, by the way.

Now to the good news. After thinking clearly about it, this is a fantastic machine. I had a blast, it's more stable than my BMW was, was more comfortable, and I had a great time when it was running right. And there's not one new bike I want better than this in the market right now, so will be patient to get this fixed. The good news is by restarting once in stabilized altitude, the surging is minor. And when surging, it helps to keep the rpms at 4K or above rpms to avoid the motor falling flat on its face. A PITA, yes, but once I climbed the mountain, it was incredible.. once I adjusted the rear suspension on hard, that is, as I dragged the freaking peg on the first curve, and THAT was more disappointing than the surging. Am happy to say after the adjustment, it has at least the same clearance than my BMW, which is enough for a sport-tourer that doesn't pummel our knees to oblivion. Hope it gets better when I learn how to set up the front suspension better.

Hey, I think Gumba is up to something. Just read an article on Cycle World, and they said raising the idle rpm on the FZ1 the stumbling almost went away. They had no explanation, but tying the knot with what Gumba said, that might be part of the problem. Raising the idle reduces the vacuum when throttle is closed, which might be what's throwing the ECU off. How can it be explained what happened to me? Climbed a small mountain to cross the city, and came back down to the same altitude, then I rode for 40 miles at the same altitude (flat, straight road), and my bike didn't stop surging until I decided to shut off the motor at the border patrol station. Something is confusing the freaking ECU, and it very well could be the excessive vacuum. You also need to remember the FJR, along with the FZ1 is a 'world' bike, which means it's tuned to the most stringent emissions in the world, which is Euro3. And that mandates shutting ALL fuel on decel, something no other manufacturer does. And THAT might be what's causing the excessive vacuum. So one of you guys near a mountain, please try it: it takes two seconds to crank the idle up with the knob on the right side of the bike. Get on your knees, put your head near the right foot peg, and look up into the fairing, and you'll see a knob. If it doesn't help, please report it back here. Crank it to 1200 rpms, like Cycle World did to the FZ1.

Now one final thought: Why in the world did Yamaha fix the FZ1 in '07 and not the FJR, when both were having identical problems??? Bet they raised more hell than we did, huh? Let's start by calling Yamaha PLUS filing that NHSTB report. And no, I won't even waste time taking my bike to my dealer; they're wonderful, but what the hell can the do? They need direction from Yamaha on this one. My buddy who owns a dealership couldn't do squat, and stopped ordering bikes. He didn't want to sell me one. Now I know why.

Bottom line? This is AN AWESOME MACHINE. It's worth the wait IMO. And let's keep looking for other ways to make the wait more bearable. CO changes made almost no difference. I settled on +5 after many changes today, but it DOES NOT get rid of the surging. And neither a TB, BUT if you do a TB after reading this, MAKE SURE the vacuum level is 250mmHg, and not higher or lower. That's going to be critical too if too much vacuum is the culprit. Later gang.

JC

 

[tophog]

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[TruWrecks]

I'm declaring this thread as useful as a mud pie for a forest fire!

I will be starting another thread, hopefully locked, to post updates that might actually help resolve the issue.

I want my FJR to run right, but I don't think Yamaha will move any faster because of the repeated bitching from the same members on this thread. If you have decided to give up on the FJR, then please move on! You're just adding noise to what can be a useful tool in getting thing resolved.

Thank you,

Doug

 

[gumba]

Several points. First, just like Stormrider (and DPS with a different bike), I also replaced my flawless-running BMW with this bike, to have something more reliable. But I was a bit more stupid, since I read about this issue, and a friend dealer who sold me the BMW (he lost the franchise since for refusing to go stand-alone) stopped all FJR orders due to being unable to fix customer's problems, and still went with it. But it was just sparsely mentioned a month ago, when I bought it, and never imagined being this bad. My bike has exactly 400 miles after today's trip, by the way.
Now to the good news. After thinking clearly about it, this is a fantastic machine. I had a blast, it's more stable than my BMW was, was more comfortable, and I had a great time when it was running right. And there's not one new bike I want better than this in the market right now, so will be patient to get this fixed. The good news is by restarting once in stabilized altitude, the surging is minor. And when surging, it helps to keep the rpms at 4K or above rpms to avoid the motor falling flat on its face. A PITA, yes, but once I climbed the mountain, it was incredible.. once I adjusted the rear suspension on hard, that is, as I dragged the freaking peg on the first curve, and THAT was more disappointing than the surging. Am happy to say after the adjustment, it has at least the same clearance than my BMW, which is enough for a sport-tourer that doesn't pummel our knees to oblivion. Hope it gets better when I learn how to set up the front suspension better.

Hey, I think Gumba is up to something. Just read an article on Cycle World, and they said raising the idle rpm on the FZ1 the stumbling almost went away. They had no explanation, but tying the knot with what Gumba said, that might be part of the problem. Raising the idle reduces the vacuum when throttle is closed, which might be what's throwing the ECU off. How can it be explained what happened to me? Climbed a small mountain to cross the city, and came back down to the same altitude, then I rode for 40 miles at the same altitude (flat, straight road), and my bike didn't stop surging until I decided to shut off the motor at the border patrol station. Something is confusing the freaking ECU, and it very well could be the excessive vacuum. You also need to remember the FJR, along with the FZ1 is a 'world' bike, which means it's tuned to the most stringent emissions in the world, which is Euro3. And that mandates shutting ALL fuel on decel, something no other manufacturer does. And THAT might be what's causing the excessive vacuum. So one of you guys near a mountain, please try it: it takes two seconds to crank the idle up with the knob on the right side of the bike. Get on your knees, put your head near the right foot peg, and look up into the fairing, and you'll see a knob. If it doesn't help, please report it back here. Crank it to 1200 rpms, like Cycle World did to the FZ1.

Now one final thought: Why in the world did Yamaha fix the FZ1 in '07 and not the FJR, when both were having identical problems??? Bet they raised more hell than we did, huh? Let's start by calling Yamaha PLUS filing that NHSTB report. And no, I won't even waste time taking my bike to my dealer; they're wonderful, but what the hell can the do? They need direction from Yamaha on this one. My buddy who owns a dealership couldn't do squat, and stopped ordering bikes. He didn't want to sell me one. Now I know why.

Bottom line? This is AN AWESOME MACHINE. It's worth the wait IMO. And let's keep looking for other ways to make the wait more bearable. CO changes made almost no difference. I settled on +5 after many changes today, but it DOES NOT get rid of the surging. And neither a TB, BUT if you do a TB after reading this, MAKE SURE the vacuum level is 250mmHg, and not higher or lower. That's going to be critical too if too much vacuum is the culprit. Later gang.

JC

Several points. First, just like Stormrider (and DPS with a different bike), I also replaced my flawless-running BMW with this bike, to have something more reliable. But I was a bit more stupid, since I read about this issue, and a friend dealer who sold me the BMW (he lost the franchise since for refusing to go stand-alone) stopped all FJR orders due to being unable to fix customer's problems, and still went with it. But it was just sparsely mentioned a month ago, when I bought it, and never imagined being this bad. My bike has exactly 400 miles after today's trip, by the way.
Now to the good news. After thinking clearly about it, this is a fantastic machine. I had a blast, it's more stable than my BMW was, was more comfortable, and I had a great time when it was running right. And there's not one new bike I want better than this in the market right now, so will be patient to get this fixed. The good news is by restarting once in stabilized altitude, the surging is minor. And when surging, it helps to keep the rpms at 4K or above rpms to avoid the motor falling flat on its face. A PITA, yes, but once I climbed the mountain, it was incredible.. once I adjusted the rear suspension on hard, that is, as I dragged the freaking peg on the first curve, and THAT was more disappointing than the surging. Am happy to say after the adjustment, it has at least the same clearance than my BMW, which is enough for a sport-tourer that doesn't pummel our knees to oblivion. Hope it gets better when I learn how to set up the front suspension better.

Hey, I think Gumba is up to something. Just read an article on Cycle World, and they said raising the idle rpm on the FZ1 the stumbling almost went away. They had no explanation, but tying the knot with what Gumba said, that might be part of the problem. Raising the idle reduces the vacuum when throttle is closed, which might be what's throwing the ECU off. How can it be explained what happened to me? Climbed a small mountain to cross the city, and came back down to the same altitude, then I rode for 40 miles at the same altitude (flat, straight road), and my bike didn't stop surging until I decided to shut off the motor at the border patrol station. Something is confusing the freaking ECU, and it very well could be the excessive vacuum. You also need to remember the FJR, along with the FZ1 is a 'world' bike, which means it's tuned to the most stringent emissions in the world, which is Euro3. And that mandates shutting ALL fuel on decel, something no other manufacturer does. And THAT might be what's causing the excessive vacuum. So one of you guys near a mountain, please try it: it takes two seconds to crank the idle up with the knob on the right side of the bike. Get on your knees, put your head near the right foot peg, and look up into the fairing, and you'll see a knob. If it doesn't help, please report it back here. Crank it to 1200 rpms, like Cycle World did to the FZ1.

Now one final thought: Why in the world did Yamaha fix the FZ1 in '07 and not the FJR, when both were having identical problems??? Bet they raised more hell than we did, huh? Let's start by calling Yamaha PLUS filing that NHSTB report. And no, I won't even waste time taking my bike to my dealer; they're wonderful, but what the hell can the do? They need direction from Yamaha on this one. My buddy who owns a dealership couldn't do squat, and stopped ordering bikes. He didn't want to sell me one. Now I know why.

Bottom line? This is AN AWESOME MACHINE. It's worth the wait IMO. And let's keep looking for other ways to make the wait more bearable. CO changes made almost no difference. I settled on +5 after many changes today, but it DOES NOT get rid of the surging. And neither a TB, BUT if you do a TB after reading this, MAKE SURE the vacuum level is 250mmHg, and not higher or lower. That's going to be critical too if too much vacuum is the culprit. Later gang.

JC

 

[tophog]

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[Ignacio]

I'm declaring this thread as useful as a mud pie for a forest fire!
I will be starting another thread, hopefully locked, to post updates that might actually help resolve the issue.

I want my FJR to run right, but I don't think Yamaha will move any faster because of the repeated bitching from the same members on this thread. If you have decided to give up on the FJR, then please move on! You're just adding noise to what can be a useful tool in getting thing resolved.

Thank you,

Doug

Sometimes there are just people that are negative fordes and nothing will every satisfy them...and they seem to want to make people feel miserable along with them.

May I resuggest an old board feature? My Controls, Manage Ignored Users, and then add whoever you want to the list...or clicky here. You can even add me if you want.

I've used it one other time before.....and found the thread made way more sense and left systolic/diastolic intact.

 

[TruWrecks]

My comments aren't targeted at any one member. If anyone thinks it was directed at them, maybe they need to examine their own behavior.

 

[DPS]

Sorry all, but I've got to agree with tophog on this. If I seem overly negative it's for two reasons:

1) As a first time Yamaha owner, I have no brand loyalty.

2) I know first hand what this type of problem and bad internet feedback can do to a product. I watched the market value of my new 2000 ZX12R drop almost 50% after one year for problems less severe than this - it wouldn't go 200mph and some early ones had bad fuel gauges and leaking fuel tanks.

As owners, we all share a financial interest in this. If Yamaha doesn't work this real fast, just owning a 2007 could be a financial burden even if you don't experience the problem first hand.

Personally, I've got to believe they already worked the technical side and now we're just waiting for the lawyers and accountants to do their jobs. I would think Yamaha (and/or their vendors) have lab test setups that can feed any possiible combination of inputs into an ECU - they could probably duplicate the conditions on Mars if they wanted - all they needed to know was it's related to altitude changes.

IMHO, only when the cost of inaction/delay exceeds the cost of permanent fixes and/or work arounds will they act in our benefit. The sooner they reach that threshold, the happier we'll all be. Like it or not, those of you who choose to wait patiently for something to happen will benefit from those of us on a different course.

....that's my $.02 worth, and now I'll just "move on".....

 

[Last Chance]

Man, get the popcorn. I'm following this thread and will continue to do so. I've had a lot of problems with "Twitchy" throttle and done ALL the fixes developed by this board to date!!!

I haven't had the opportunity to do any real touring over large mountain ranges so I don't know if this problem and the "twitchy" throttle I've been battling are related. So I will wait and see.

The first real test for me will come on the way to WFO-6. I've developed an emergency procedure that I will be practising shortly. Simply shifting to neutral then shutting the key off to reset the ECU for 10 seconds (while at cruise speed) and restarting the engine.) :lol: :drinks:

I've got the idle up as high as it will go. I don't have any problem now with the twitchy problem. I wish I could adjust the idle down a tad but, hey it runs great.

I find the comments about the "high vacuum" at idle and ECU "out of range" intriguing. Lots of good ideas flowing and something is bound to come of it.

As to what Yamaha will do? I have confidence they will do their best to solve the problem. It is in their best interest to do so.

Since I love this bike 99.9% of the time, I'm willing to wait. Besides I tend to keep my vehicles till they fall apart and I see no reason yet to do otherwise.

LC

 

[ELP_JC]

Let's keep this in subject folks. And anybody who currently owns an '07 FJR is part of this group, so let's not exclude anybody just because they're less tolerant than us. I'm also a first time Yamaha owner, and am a bit frustrated as well, but we're together on this, so let's just focus on 3 things:

1- Force Yamaha to solve the problem asap. And we're doing that already by calling Yamaha CS (was useless for me) and filing an NHTSB complaint.

2. Keep trying to find as much info as we can ourselves.

3. Keep trying to find temporary fixes to alleviate the problem.

I have a question on #2. Does anybody know if the ECUs can be swapped between an '06 and '07? They should be the same other than mapping, correct? If somebody is brave enough to try that, it'd be great. I'd just buy one from a yunkyard and call it a day if that's the solution. We only need an '06 donor, so no risk to that bike at all. And an '07 beta tester. If all the sensors are the same, I see no risk at all. But leaving closer than 120 miles from a mountain would be nice too.

And on #3, can somebody else near the mountains please try raising the idle to 1,200 rpm and give it a shot? This has absolutely zero risk of anything happening, and could very well improve things. Good day folks.

JC

 

[tophog]

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[gumba]

Let's keep this in subject folks. And anybody who currently owns an '07 FJR is part of this group, so let's not exclude anybody just because they're less tolerant than us. I'm also a first time Yamaha owner, and am a bit frustrated as well, but we're together on this, so let's just focus on 3 things: 1- Force Yamaha to solve the problem asap. And we're doing that already by calling Yamaha CS (was useless for me) and filing an NHTSB complaint.

2. Keep trying to find as much info as we can ourselves.

3. Keep trying to find temporary fixes to alleviate the problem.

I have a question on #2. Does anybody know if the ECUs can be swapped between an '06 and '07? They should be the same other than mapping, correct? If somebody is brave enough to try that, it'd be great. I'd just buy one from a yunkyard and call it a day if that's the solution. We only need an '06 donor, so no risk to that bike at all. And an '07 beta tester. If all the sensors are the same, I see no risk at all. But leaving closer than 120 miles from a mountain would be nice too.

And on #3, can somebody else near the mountains please try raising the idle to 1,200 rpm and give it a shot? This has absolutely zero risk of anything happening, and could very well improve things. Good day folks.

JC

The 06 ECU has been replaced by the 07. You can still order the 06 PN but they will send you the 07.

 

[ELP_JC]

In case you haven't noticed Tophog, ALL improvements posted on this board are due to 'experimenting' (CO adjustments, throttle cam, spring relax, etc), so nothing wrong with that. If you don't want to go beyond a certain point, fine, but many of us don't mind.

It usually takes a long time for a manufacturer to fix something, even when we have basically the same problem as the FZ1s, which were fixed already. That's why I want to find a cure on my own if it exists. A simple ECU change on identical bikes doesn't sound like a farfetched solution, at least to me. And neither raising the darn idle to 1,200rpm; zero risk there. I'm just proposing possible solutions to our problem, that's all. Nobody has to do them, but don't shut them down either. Good day.

JC

 

[ELP_JC]

The 06 ECU has been replaced by the 07. You can still order the 06 PN but they will send you the 07.

That's interesting. But I was referring to an actual '06 ECU. And if our '07s ran like an '06 (most likely), I'd buy one from a junkyard. Imagine how much a new ECU is from a dealer? I wouldn't do that. Or even better just replace the chip, or reflash it with the '06 data. But I'm getting way ahead of myself here; we first need to know if the solution works, and we have to try it to find out.

To put my money where my mouth is I'd volunteer to try an '06 ECU, if it's as simple as I'm assuming. We might need a computer to 'initialize' it with a VIN or something. I just don't know. It's just an idea. Take care.

JC

 

[tophog]

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