2007 Altitude Surging Problem - Members Wanted

[otubrab]

I dropped off my 07 FJR at Adventure last night and picked up my 06 Stratoliner (Hey Medium Al, I have nearly the same collection as you--06 Stratoliner S, 07 FJR1300A, but no blackbird). I told them to keep the FJR for a week, a month, two months, crate it up and send it to Japan if necessary--lets get to the bottom of this.

As luck had it, when I dropped in Chris (the service manager) was reading this forum, and was on the phone with Yamaha discussing their plan of attack.

Here's what I can relay at this time.

1. Adventure Motorsports has in their possession at this time 2 offending bikes--mine and TruWreck's.

2. They plan a multi-day investigation of the problem, including riding both bikes up to the summit of Steven's pass (4200ft, 50miles) this week.

3. Yamaha is supplying technical manpower and is supporting the investigation.

4. The team at the dealership does NOT want additional inputs at this time. They've got all the input from this forum, as well as other sources, and they want to be left alone for the remainder of the week so they can spend hands-on time with the bikes. The Yamaha resources at Adventure for this investigation will NOT talk to customers. This is a technical investigation and they specifically do not want to get bogged down in PR issues now. Please do not contact them this week about this issue. (Of course, you should continue to use normal channels to post information and convey it to Yamaha, including to the dealerships you normally use. Complaints reaching a critical mass is what brought us to this point; further accumulation and publicizing of the information will probably help expedite a solution.)

5. There was an EMU change 06 to 07. The changes are being examined.

6. This will probably take more time than any of us are comfortable with. The investigation at Adventure is just to identify the technical problem. Yamaha's response will then have to be worked out. It was mentioned to me that a recall is a possibility. Nobody knows at this point.

Chris will call me when they learn something. The dealership closes Sunday and Monday. I don't expect a call before Tuesday.

 

[mmonroe]

My name can be added to the list:

2007 FJR1300

North Carolina

Had to stop/start the bike several times on a Deals Gap/BRP/Cherohala trip a couple of weeks ago. A real pain in the....

I would really like to see a fix.

Mark

 

[tophog]

Updated 12:21 PST 6/21/2007

Owners who reported Surging problem

Reported: 36 (sorted by State)

Year State Login

2007 ??? Whichsideup

2007 ??? AGirl

2007 ??? JMC

2007 AK PA1195

2007 AR Wingman

2006 AZ azsporttour

2006 CA co425

2006 CA DMC FJRRider

2006 CA Highlander

2007 CA CALSI

2007 CA dgerharter

2007 CA Gary D

2007 CA rgmax

2007 CA Silent

2007 CA Spunkmyer

2007 CA Superbee

2007 CO Gator1

2007 CO Medium Al

2007 CO seabiscuit

2007 CO Telluride

2006 FL one more bike

2007 NC JeffAshe

2007 NC millsaps

2007 NC sfla02si

2007 NC mmonroe

2007 NC Lil Black Sheep

2007 NV Keone

2007 OR Farkles

2007 OR tophog

2007 OR greg97224

2007 TN fjr07

2007 TN TNT

2007 TX ELP JC

2006 UT Fjrvfr

2007 UK UK-keith

2007 WA otubrab

2007 WA TruWrecks

Owners who have reported no problem

Reported: 9

Year State Login

2006 CA Gary

2006 CO BobG

2006 CT rivgar

ID headude

2007 Iowa okmac

2007 NC bent Aero

2006 NY v65

2007 phoneman91 CA

2006 TX bmwhd

 

[Keone]

Mine To. 2007A

I normally ride around Las Vegas near 3000' Surging/loss of power happends when I cross 6500' as indicated on my Zumo. Once I turn off the bike and restart the bike is fine up to 8500'. I haven't been higher with the bike so I can't comment on elevations higher.

Note: Surging/loss of power doesn't occur on the way down from a higher elevation.

Note: Power Commander Installed w/ 02 sensor disconnected.

I will call Yamaha and also log a complaint there... thanks for consolidating this effort.

Keone

 

[tophog]

I'm going to continue to update post #102 above with members rather then reposting the same list over and over.

 

[TruWrecks]

Can eveyone listed in post 102 please PM me with your FJR model A or AE and the last 6 of the VIN? I'm compiling a list to see if there's a production trend that may help narrow the window of concerned bikes. I will only share this information with the dealer that currently has my bike.

Thanks.

 

[Lil Black Sheep]

Welp, we need to be added to the list. We went on a 125 mile ride on the Blue Ridge Parkway this past weekend. The higher we climbed in altitude, the worse it got. Dh is not a happy camper as we ride the BRP often cause it's in our backyard.

 

[PA1195]

Questions:

===================================

What is the year of your bike, current mileage and city/state in which you live?

2007 FJR1300A, ~1500 miles, Fairbanks, AK., Stock bike except for Staintune cans

and no tank bag.

Has your bike surged at altitude? If so, have you noticed any pattern as to a particular altitude the surging occurs?

No surging, but no hills over 1000' above 430' with good access roads in Interior Alaska.

Have you experienced surging while changing altitude of 1000' or more without shutting motorcycle off?

No

Have you experienced surging riding at a steady elevation? If so, what elevation?

No - elevation 430' - 1200' MSL

When you experienced surging did you try turning bike off/on? If so, did it correct the problem?

N/A - but doing so correctly resets the ECU to the current atmospheric pressure before the engine starts again, and maybe that's why it works better for awhile for some in my opinion.

Have you contacted the dealer regarding the problem? If so, what has the dealer done to help resolve the problem?

N/A

 

[TellurideFJR]

Having rolled a few more miles on my 07' I have had a few more surging situations. None are as bad as others (bike nearly un-rideable) but still noticable. I do ride ALOT of elevation changes (live in the mountains) and it seems that the problem occurs (for me at least) when descending.

 

[TruWrecks]

Please don't post your VIN on the site. Please PM them to me. It is for your protection.

My dealer was also wants to know how many that have an 06 or 07 that ride with tank bags. You can post that hear, or include it in a PM to me. Thanks.

 

[UK-keith]

My dealer was also wants to know how many that have an 06 or 07 that ride with tank bags.

When I rolled up to my dealers with a tank bag on he said it might be a breathing problem as it may block the venting of the tank. I explined the problem occured both with and without a tank bag on.

 

[tophog]

.

 

[otubrab]

I hadn't planned on posting today, but Chris (from Adventure Motorsports) called last night, so I went in and we discussed the problem again for about an hour.

(If you just jumped to this post and don’t know what I’m talking about, see post #100)

Wednesday’s results:

Unfortunately, the first day of testing did not produce what we had all hoped for. They did not get either bike to fail.

-Both bikes (mine and TruWrecks) were ridden up the summit of Steven’s Pass following the procedures that we each thought would most likely reproduce the surging/stalling symptoms. They also tried some variations on my procedures.

-They put over 100 miles on each bike; on mine, they rode up to the summit a couple of times, and put significantly more than 100 miles.

-They did pull a fault code from my bike, which initially didn’t seem to pertain to the problem, but now they’re not so sure. The Yamaha folks are getting involved with this one, if I understand correctly.

Thursday’s plan (as best I understand it):

-They want to repeat yesterday’s ride in today’s weather. It’s supposed to be cooler, possibly raining on the pass. The last time I repro’d the stall was Saturday, the 16th, in the evening; it was raining, the summit temp was 43. They’re hoping conditions might be similar today. (They are aware that my Pike’s Peak fiasco occurred in good weather conditions.)

-They asked us both to bring in our magnetic tank bags. There is some (weak) information about tank bags affecting fuel system pressure equalization or some other such effect. (I personally don’t think this is it, but they’re investigating all clues. They're aware that I've experienced the problem with and without the bag.)

-I can’t speak for TruWrecks, but there was some discussion of him reproducing his symptoms on his bike while they chased on my bike or another vehicle. I don’t know if the logistics worked out.

-EMU behavior on my bike is being investigated.

-The Yamaha rep. was bringing in various parts to replace, substitute, test on my bike.

As I’ve mentioned before, they’re carefully following this forum. If you can think of anything that might be helpful, please post. At this point, the main emphasis is again reproducing the symptoms in the presense of the appropriate (technical) eyes; the minor emphasis is further exploring the (weak) leads they have (the error code from my bike, info on effects of magnetic tank bags, etc.).

Pertinent info might be any of the following physicals, especially patterns:

At the time of surge/stall:

1. how long had you ridden since last engine shutoff ? (time)

2. was current ride segment (since last engine shutoff ) part of a longer ride?

3. how far had you ridden since last engine shutoff (distance)

4. elevation changes, both since last engine shutoff and overall for (multi-segmented) ride, both positive and negative

5. fuel level

6. how many LCD temp segments showing

7. outside air temp

8. other weather information

9. fuel mileage

10. electrical system anomalies (fuses, questionable connections, etc)

 

[greg97224]

You can add me to the list also, thought I had the problem solved with a PCIII and a G2. The issue is much better, but it is still there. Went on a ride around Mt. Hood (around 4500') and it happened again, pretty discusted.

 

[Medium Al]

This has happened to me at least 5-6 times. All on several 100 mile to 250 mile trips (bike has 600 miles total now). No tank bags, various weather conditions, fuel levels, and so forth. See below for more info.

At the time of surge/stall:1. how long had you ridden since last engine shutoff ? (time)

20-45 minutes, long enough to climb 1500 ft vertical or so, from anywhere starting at 5000 ft to starting at 10000 ft.

2. was current ride segment (since last engine shutoff ) part of a longer ride?

Both. For example, happened multiple times in each ride, beginning and at several spots along the way, only similar feature was 1500 ft or so of elevation change (up).

3. how far had you ridden since last engine shutoff (distance)

Anywhere from 20 to 50 miles. After shutting off engine, p[roblem goes away until climbing 1500 ft or so again.

4. elevation changes, both since last engine shutoff and overall for (multi-segmented) ride, both positive and negative

Total about 7500 ft vertical, individual 1500-2500 ft up, maybe 1000 ft down max some segments. Does not happen when starting up high and descending. It does happen when starting up high, coming down 1000 ft, and coming back up 2500 ft so so without stopping.

5. fuel level

Anywhere from full to half tank.

6. how many LCD temp segments showing

Anywhere from 1 below even (1 below mid point) to mid +2. Seems to run hot at high altitudes and climbing, even in low ambient temps. This is normal for all my bikes though.

7. outside air temp

Varies from 42 degrees (top of pass) to maybe 85 (start).

8. other weather information

Happens at low humidity, mid, and full up rainstorm.

9. fuel mileage

mid 40's

10. electrical system anomalies (fuses, questionable connections, etc)

None.

PCIII installation helped to mitigate approx 50% severity but did not elimnate it. These guys should not be swapping out parts until they can duplicate the problem on a customer bike as is.

 

[mmonroe]

Pertinent info might be any of the following physicals, especially patterns:
At the time of surge/stall:

1. how long had you ridden since last engine shutoff ? (time)

2. was current ride segment (since last engine shutoff ) part of a longer ride?

3. how far had you ridden since last engine shutoff (distance)

4. elevation changes, both since last engine shutoff and overall for (multi-segmented) ride, both positive and negative

5. fuel level

6. how many LCD temp segments showing

7. outside air temp

8. other weather information

9. fuel mileage

10. electrical system anomalies (fuses, questionable connections, etc)

1,2,3) I had just filled up in Cherokee NC and rode straight to the Blue Ridge Parkway two up. One on the Parkway the elevation changes almost immediate upwards. I dont remember the exact distance but I had to pull over the stop/start the bike within probably 10-15mi and then again after another 10-15mi. After those two episodes and once I got past Mt Mitchell, the bike did fairly well.

4) Several thousand feet

5) Filled to the top at Cherokee

6) All of them

7) Around 60F, plus or minus

8) Crisp sunny morning around 9:00am, hardly a cloud in the sky

9) In general, the bike has been getting high 40's. On the last leg of the trip it went 227mi on 4.57 gallons of fuel.

10) none that I am aware of

Mark

 

[PA1195]

Suggestion: If for some reason the Yamaha folks can't reproduce the surging issue as described by the owner, may I suggest that whoever owns the bike with the issue offer to ride with a rep on the pillion seat if at all possible if they need to experience the problem real-time...may be of some help to all concerned.

Also, on page 7-1 of the '06-07 Service Manual it shows the fuel tank breather hose that connects to the nearby tank overflow hose, both of which join another single hose that drops down the left side of the bike...we've all seen them when removing the tank for maintenance...if that's the tank's air source, how would a magnetic tank bag affect the fuel venting system as mentioned in an earlier post #112?...bad magnetic flux JuJu interfering with the fuel pump assembly?...just some thoughts to chew on and hopefully the Yamaha test folks can duplicate the situation.

Gary in Fairbanks

 

[TruWrecks]

BTW I'm keeping all of the information that I collect highly confidential. It will only be shared with Yamaha and Adventure Motorsports as needed.

I usually get the surging on rides more than an hour. I suggest he rides it over Stevens Pass to Blewitt Pass. That will make for about 2 hours of riding with over 40 miles of uphill climbing.

 

[superbee]

At the time of surge/stall:

1. how long had you ridden since last engine shutoff ? (time)

about 30 minutes

2. was current ride segment (since last engine shutoff ) part of a longer ride?

yes

3. how far had you ridden since last engine shutoff (distance)

30 miles

4. elevation changes, both since last engine shutoff and overall for (multi-segmented) ride, both positive and negative

1000 to 2000

5. fuel level

half a tank

6. how many LCD temp segments showing

4 - 5

7. outside air temp

80's

8. other weather information

dry, sunny

9. fuel mileage

42

10. electrical system anomalies (fuses, questionable connections, etc

none

11. no tank bag.

I can reproduce the stumbling/surging problem almost at will. It happens anytime I ride for at least 30 mins between 3500 and 5000 rpm (3rd-5th gear) while climbing on twisty or straight roads (changes of at least 1000'), then either come to a stop (traffic sign or light) or slow down to 5mph (behind slow traffic) and then trying to speed up again, it stumbles and surges. Sometimes minor other times severely that requires ignition shutoff. Bleeping and downshifting seems to reduce the severity of the stumble but it doesn't stop it from hapenning. A couple of times I rev'd it up to 8000 with the clutch in and it cleared up the stumble or choking as I call it. The same happens on descents but to a lesser degree.

I followed the recomendations of Ed Sorbo that posted earlier on this thread and kept the rpms high and bleeping after every downshift. By shifting often between 4th ad 3rd gears to keep the rpms up it almost eliminated the surging that occured before while going up the mountain. But the problem returns if I slow down or stop as I mentioned above.

It would be nice if Yamaha would also select a couple of bikes with the problem here in So Cal and try to reproduce by going up to the mountains we all go to. Perhaps someone on this forum with a close relationship with their dealer can convince them to invest time and money into this. I've checked with my dealer and called two others but they were unaware of the problem or just not interested in getting involved.

I think all our hopes are riding on the results from otubrab and TruWrecks test bikes.

George.

 

[TNT]

I rode mine up over the Cherohala again today. I've never been so disappointed in a motorcycle before. I'm about ready to sell it.

At the time of surge/stall:

1. how long had you ridden since last engine shutoff ? (time)

30 minutes

2. was current ride segment (since last engine shutoff ) part of a longer ride?

Part of a longer ride

3. how far had you ridden since last engine shutoff (distance)

35 miles

4. elevation changes, both since last engine shutoff and overall for (multi-segmented) ride, both positive and negative

from 2000 to 5300 the surging got worse after returning to lower altitude.

5. fuel level

nearly full tank

6. how many LCD temp segments showing

4-5

7. outside air temp

76

8. other weather information

sunny and low humidity

9. fuel mileage

46 mpg

10. electrical system anomalies (fuses, questionable connections, etc)

none