2009 BMW K1300GT

[TheBlueStreak]

Well Boys and Girls..

Did you see what the BMW did to the new GT?? https://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/etc/news.jsp..._k1300_unveiled

160 HP, 6 speed, Improved suspension, 1300cc's.....

Hmm, I wonder how Yamaha will respond in 2010?

The way I see it they have to deal with the C-14 and now a hor rod GT.

Comments?

The Blue Streak

 

[rickcorwn]

What'd you say? BMW turned up the heat?

I couldn't help myself B)

 

[Nightshift]

What'd you say? BMW turned up the heat?

I couldn't help myself B)

My feelings exactly. All I hear about BMW bikes thes days is failed shaft drive assemblies and BMW will not even acknowledge there's a problem. :dribble:

 

[rockmurf]

You still have the issues of high cost to buy, reliability, cost of maintenance. The new concourse is more a threat to the fjr because of its price.

 

[dcarver]

I'm a old time, long time, cool-aid drinker.

For the money, for the support, for the cost of ownership.. No.

Wish I could say yes, if only BMW could live up to the 'image'.

 

[El Toro]

There was a thread here on the new K1300 BMWs a month or so ago, and we went through all the crap about the final drive failures. Maybe we can do it again.

 

[kurt]

I know the guy with the infamous flaming final drive. He regrets ever taking that picture. I still love my GS though.

 

[Warchild]

I know the guy with the infamous flaming final drive. He regrets ever taking that picture.

He shouldn't.... this telling photo is likely responsible for keeping many riders from being stranded on the side of the road, looking at a similar picture.... in real life. :glare:

Personally, I never really took to beemers in the past, because they are just.... odd machines. But modern beemers - particularly single-sided swingarm shafties - are simply laughable with regard to drive-train reliability.

Still, the throngs of endurance riders that have had their rallys completely ruined, one-time Iron Butt Rally riders (who have spent *thousands* of $$$ in prepping for this event) who have been left stranded somewhere south of East Jesus, to these poor souls, this **** is no laughing matter whatsoever. The numbers of previously HARD-CORE kool-aid drinkers who have punted this marque to the curb in the past 5 years is simply staggering.

 

[El Toro]

I know the guy with the infamous flaming final drive. He regrets ever taking that picture. I still love my GS though.

I guess he took it in the "heat of the moment."

When we had the thread a month or so ago I started digging into the final drive failure issue, and from the real countable failures I can find, it would appear to me that BMW's response has been responsible. There's a big article about this stuff in last month's BMW Owner's News. The cases that have occured have gotten a tremendous amount of publicity, and this flaming photo gets trotted out regularly.

FWIW, I don't think the K1200GT (which has more power than the FJR) or the K1300GT (which also has more power than the FJR) are competitors for the FJR because of price point. When you buy a BMW, they seem to load them up with options that drive the price up beyond the stripped msrp, and a typically equipped K1200GT this past season would have set you back something on the order of 65% more than the typically equipped FJR A model.

Something about BMW rubs a lot of folks the wrong way. I thought they were overpriced underperformers myself for many years, and the magazine reviewers generally view them as oddballs and write accordingly. I've got two of them now (no Boxers yet) and they're my unexpected favorites.

Honestly, both the FJR and the K12/13GT have a lot to recommend them. Both have good dealers as well as crummy dealers. Both have quirks that many folks whine about, like the ignition switch on both bikes (BMW has offered to replace these for free...how about it Yamaha? ). The BMW final drive problem is NOT widespread among the modern K bikes. I think the list that Dale posted included 4 modern K bike final drive failures. The thread on the corporate site to make a registry of final drive failures included mostly posts from folks who had heard about failures, but less than a handful of first hand reports.

Meanwhile, enjoy the FJR for what it is. Its an exceptionally good Sport Touring bike at a very favorable price point. I was going to buy a K1200Gt leftover 08 this Fall, but when I bought the leftover 06 FJR AE in June, my interest in another K bike diminished, and I'll probably wait for the FIM WSB liter bike before parting with cash for another BMW. The FJR holds its own.

 

[Niehart]

"BMW will not even acknowledge there's a problem"

Mama Yama .. "What ignition problem?'

Just saying ...

 

[RiderCoach Lar]

You still have the issues of high cost to buy, reliability, cost of maintenance.

...not to mention their highly anemic dealer network (could also fall under "cost to buy" and "cost of maintenance"). Five years ago, the closest one to my house was about 10 miles. After that one closed, the next closest one was about 25 miles. Now THAT one has closed and the closest dealer to me is about 40 miles :blink:

They are, by far, the most beautiful bikes that I have no desire whatsoever to own :no:

 

[doctorJ]

"BMW will not even acknowledge there's a problem."

I think this is the standard business practice of the motorcycle division or has been for as long as I have been following motorcycles with interest (back to the 1150s and not 1100s). You just have to absorb that as part of the "character" and price of admission I suppose. I haven't and won't, but like what I see of the K1300GT (as long as others have it and not me).

doctorj

 

[SkooterG]

"BMW will not even acknowledge there's a problem"
Mama Yama .. "What ignition problem?'

Just saying ...

Faulty valve guides - "The Tick" addressed and FIXED by Yamaha

Faulty ECUs - The 'Altitude' issue addressed and FIXED by Yamaha

The ignition problem is still working it's way through. So far no reports of 08s ignition switches going bad (and there is a new part #) so maybe the 'fix' is closer at hand than we realize. There is an onging NHTSA investigation so something will have to happen. And if you are unaware of the ignition issue it could leave you stranded, though many will be able to get on their way again. When a final drive goes, your fuked. Not going anywhere except to the nearest BMW dealer which could be hundreds of miles away. Period.

Just saying...

 

[Ignacio]

"BMW will not even acknowledge there's a problem"
Mama Yama .. "What ignition problem?'

Just saying ...

There's light years of difference between BMW and Yamaha. The ignition issue IS BEING WORKED. Remember this link?

And the ignition issue is smaller potatoes compared to a final drive failure. One tends to strand you by the side of the road until you jump a couple wires. The other requires a tow truck every single time.

And don't forget Yamaha has demonstrated product support on at least two different occasions. The altitude/ECU issue....they did a recall without any regulator prodding IIRC.

And the immensely huge issue of valve ticking in Gen 1 bikes......all you Gen 2 owners get to thank Yamaha and certain Gen 1 owners for continuing to work towards resolution. Had it been BMW I believe Gen 2 would have to have been Kool-Aid guzzlers. Last report is heads are still being fixed even out of warranty. Another courtesy I don't think one could accuse BMW of emulating.

The reality certainly remains that companies will probably not ever come out and openly admit something like, "Yep. We screwed up. We're sorry. We'll fix it." In fact, they'll rarely say anything.

However, where a recognized issue of BMW final drives has been a problem for many, many years and that problem continues unabated even now that we've watched multiple new product launches. Contrast that with Yamaha that does fix the issues as they come up....sometimes slowly. But there is a HUGE difference between the two companies approach to fixing systemic issues and design defects.

I'm just sayin.....

 

[El Toro]

You still have the issues of high cost to buy, reliability, cost of maintenance.

...not to mention their highly anemic dealer network (could also fall under "cost to buy" and "cost of maintenance"). Five years ago, the closest one to my house was about 10 miles. After that one closed, the next closest one was about 25 miles. Now THAT one has closed and the closest dealer to me is about 40 miles :blink:

I'm not sure if you're talking about the Yamaha dealer network or the BMW dealer network. As far as I can tell, most folks are going to have to drive a good ways to get to a decent dealer with either marque. We've got a Yamaha dealer in town, and its not noted for its excellent service. The nearest dealer with a professional service department is 80 miles away. D&H is probably 220 miles away.

I never wanted a BMW either. I sort of backed into it at BMW Motorcycles of Daytona. These guys have been awesome, and trips to Daytona are generally fun if you don't stay too long anyway. I'm heading to Orlando for the SAE Race Car Data Acquisition and Analysis Seminar next month, and I'll stop by Daytona on my way down, even though its not on the most direct route.

In any event, according to the BMW Owner's News, BMW has been warranteeing the final drive failures that occur, even after the original warranty period is over. It appears that BMW is generous with their customers if the customers follow the rules. They use the word generous in their description of warranty. The two owner's manuals I have now both say that if you have the service done at an authorized BMW dealership, they will be generous with warranty claims. I know this idea would send chills down the spines of most FJR owners because of the general belief that the dealer service departments are not as competent as the guided novices who learn as they go. Maybe that's right. I dunno... Any hint that you had to take your bike to an authorized Yamaha service center for routine maintenance would bring out the claims that litigation and threats of litigation would somehow get satisfactory performance on warranty from Yamaha. Frankly, I hate dealing with lawyers unless the stakes are a heck of a lot higher than getting service done on a bike. If a lawyer can give me good advice on a 6 or 7 figure deal, I don't mind paying for it. I am sure not going to bother with a lawyer on a typical warranty dispute.

And we still come back to the observation that modern K bike final drive failures appear to be few and far between. All BMW final drives are not the same. The new K1300 series will have a new final drive, and maybe this time there won't be any failures. I dunno.

Then we come back to the observation that when you break in a drive shaft driven bike, you are lapping in the mating gear surfaces and this will affect their life. Surface fatigue eventually leads noise, and then to bending fatigue, and finally to catastrophic failure. I often wonder how many of these drive shaft failure bikes were broken in using an accelerated engine break in strategy.

Even my 08 Toyota Tundra gave rules for break in which appeared to me to be driveline related rather than engine related.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

You still have the issues of high cost to buy, reliability, cost of maintenance.

<snip>....In any event, according to the BMW Owner's News, BMW has been warranteeing the final drive failures that occur, And we still come back to the observation that modern K bike final drive failures appear to be few and far between. All BMW final drives are not the same. The new K1300 series will have a new final drive, and maybe this time there won't be any failures. I dunno.

Then we come back to the observation that when you break in a drive shaft driven bike, you are lapping in the mating gear surfaces and this will affect their life. Surface fatigue eventually leads noise, and then to bending fatigue, and finally to catastrophic failure. I often wonder how many of these drive shaft failure bikes were broken in using an accelerated engine break in strategy.

The question remains: why even have any rear-drive failures? Especially after building them continually for lifetimes..... Has 'Industrial Senility' set-in?

"Break-in' is universally accepted as a non-issue with late 20th century manufacturing processes -- certainly, with 21st century methods modern vehicles are ready to go right off the show-room floor. Rear-drive failures are an automotive industry non-event and have been for decades. Many automotive companies (same/similar technologies) freely advertise no need to open the hood (tune-up, maintenance, etc) for 100K miles.

It seems to me.... that involvement with any retrograde engineering must be for the entertainment value of the buyer/rider...? :huh:

 

[El Toro]

"Break-in' is universally accepted as a non-issue with late 20th century manufacturing processes -- certainly, with 21st century methods modern vehicles are ready to go right off the show-room floor. Rear-drive failures are an automotive industry non-event and have been for decades. Many automotive companies (same/similar technologies) freely advertise no need to open the hood (tune-up, maintenance, etc) for 100K miles.

Well, you're a lot more accepting of the notion that things are ready to go and will last 100K before service.

Last time I checked, 1996 and 1999 were both in the late 20th century, and I had the transmission just totally fail in my 1996 Honda Accord at about 78,000 miles. The Honda rep in California said "Once the warranty is done, even if the whole car just vaporizes, we don't owe you a thing." I thanked them, but I also remembered. I had been keeping two Accords and replacing them every two to three years up to that point. I had bought a 96, 97, 98, and 99. That was the last one.

My 1999 GMC Sierra need a total rear end replacement at 120,000 miles, but it showed the signs through increased noise due to surface fatigue before 100K. The signs were back at 190K, and so it got traded.

And, as I said above, the 08 Tundra has break in rules.

Yeah yeah yeah, final drives shouldn't fail. And they don't for probably 99.9% of the population of the BMW bikes. The failures get a lot of publicity, in part because the marque is viewed as odd and overpriced by so many folks.

 

[Joe2Lmaker]

They are, by far, the most beautiful bikes that I have no desire whatsoever to own :no:

:blink:

I don't see the beauty.

The side bags are the only aesthetically pleasing thing on the whole bike.

 

[RiderCoach Lar]

I'm not sure if you're talking about the Yamaha dealer network or the BMW dealer network. As far as I can tell, most folks are going to have to drive a good ways to get to a decent dealer with either marque. We've got a Yamaha dealer in town, and its not noted for its excellent service. The nearest dealer with a professional service department is 80 miles away. D&H is probably 220 miles away.

Dude, are you serious!? You're comparing BMW's dealer network to Yamaha's?

Here, let me clarify my statement: I live near Chicago (pretty big place). BMW has 2 dealers within a 50 mile radius of Chicago (that's down from about 3, five years ago). Yamaha has at least 10 that I know of. One is 2.5 miles from my home. The next closest is 6 miles. Fortunately I don't have to drive far to get to a "decent" Yamaha dealer. I DO, however, have to drive very far to find ANY BMW dealer.