2009 BMW K1300GT

[Ignacio]

Yeah yeah yeah, final drives shouldn't fail. And they don't for probably 99% of the population of the BMW bikes. The failures get a lot of publicity, in part because the marque is viewed as odd and overpriced by so many folks.

While we might not ever know if that specific claim is true we DO know that 1 out of 6 BMW final drives fail in every competitive rally the past few years. These are the same rallies that no FJR final drive has failed. The statistics look more and more grim as the failure rate can be predicted with increasing precision.

And I don't think they're getting publicity because of the marquee or price, but because they're leaving riders stranded at the side of the road and losing rallies they'd otherwise win! I'm the winner of one of those rallies because a well serviced final drive couldn't keep from inverting it's guts for 8,000 miles.

But, far be it from me from dissuading you from guzzling the cherry flavor drink. I've found that BMW folks tend to have to come to the realization themself. Doing it on FJR forum probably doesn't do much good.

Meanwhile good luck I really do hope BMW can get it's act together and fix the beloved brand.

 

[FJR1300KEN]

"Break-in' is universally accepted as a non-issue with late 20th century manufacturing processes -- certainly, with 21st century methods modern vehicles are ready to go right off the show-room floor. Rear-drive failures are an automotive industry non-event and have been for decades. Many automotive companies (same/similar technologies) freely advertise no need to open the hood (tune-up, maintenance, etc) for 100K miles.

Well, you're a lot more accepting of the notion that things are ready to go and will last 100K before service.

Last time I checked, 1996 and 1999 were both in the late 20th century, and I had the transmission just totally fail in my 1996 Honda Accord at about 78,000 miles. The Honda rep in California said "Once the warranty is done, even if the whole car just vaporizes, we don't owe you a thing." I thanked them, but I also remembered. I had been keeping two Accords and replacing them every two to three years up to that point. I had bought a 96, 97, 98, and 99. That was the last one.

My 1999 GMC Sierra need a total rear end replacement at 120,000 miles, but it showed the signs through increased noise due to surface fatigue before 100K. The signs were back at 190K, and so it got traded.

And, as I said above, the 08 Tundra has break in rules.

Yeah yeah yeah, final drives shouldn't fail. And they don't for probably 99% of the population of the BMW bikes. The failures get a lot of publicity, in part because the marque is viewed as odd and overpriced by so many folks.

I agree totaly.I spent 20yrs as an automotive technician before switching to M/C's,and I can tell ya that in the 90's Dana/Spicer had a HUGE problem with their differentials to the point they got tired of sending replacement units every time,and sent all the repair tools to the appropriate dealers along with footing the bill on schooling for the dealer tech's.I had first hand knowledge working for Chrysler/Plymouth/Dodge/Dodge truck,andJeep dealers. the numbers were in the 1000's . Hence the problem with the above GMC truck. Theres also problems with lots of other motorcycle manufacturers shaft drivetrains.Hows about the beloved V-Max or the all powerful Suzuki Boulevard M109R.There are hundreds of cases of failure with just those two do to the sheer torque.Lets face it,when you put that kind of raw HP in any machine,and try to keep the weight,and costs down you will have a weak link somewhere.I'm not being partial because I ride a K12R Beemer,its just the reality of the machine.These parts are made by humans and therefor are suseptable to fault.I just try to maintain mine the absolute best I can while having fun,and not being stupid to the point of intentional abuse.I do say KUDOS to BMW for getting in the mix of high HP sport,and sportourers.Thats my .02 cents worth---------------------------Ken

 

[RiderCoach Lar]

... These are the same rallies that no FJR final drive has failed...

And you have FJR-specific, $30/pint final drive oil to thank for that!!

(sorry, Ig, just tryin' to stir up a special Thanksgiving holiday dogpile )

 

[FJR1300KEN]

... These are the same rallies that no FJR final drive has failed...

And you have FJR-specific, $30/pint final drive oil to thank for that!!

(sorry, Ig, just tryin' to stir up a special Thanksgiving holiday dogpile )

Here's something even better.Its called Amsoil severe gear fully synthetic gear oil.Oh,and its halve the price of the OEM stuff.I wouldn't leave home without it!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[wheatonFJR]

Quick, someone run get the crucifix and silver bullet! :clapping: :clapping:

:lol:

 

[FJR1300KEN]

Why,did I say a nasty word(Amsoil)????

 

[wheatonFJR]

ooh, he said it again.

Mommy, please make the bad man go away!

:lol:

 

[Ignacio]

Let's get back to the subject of the thread please and leave the off-topic posts alone.

Thanks.

The Management

 

[str8]

Crap. I was just gonna get my popcorn ready.

 

[El Toro]

Forget Dog Pile Fridays. I think that as far as we're concerned here, we're into the Dog Pile Century on BMWs.

Some K1200LT final drives fail in Long Distance rallys that most motorcyclists would consider an unusual riding format, torches are brought in, cursing and abuse for the expensive kraut krap is generated. Everyone pats themselves on the back for not spending money for such POS motorcycles. It feels good to publically trot out the pictures and the stories again and again. Meanwhile, the specific failures don't seem to show up for whining on the BMW corporate or Kbike forums, and when a thread is started, folks chime in about the stories they've heard, and about the nasty problem, and yet the number of folks with personal experience having suffered the problem just don't show up to complain. Maybe one or two real victims show up from time to time, and I can understand any self righteous indignation they might have about the marque....but there aren't legions of victims showing up because there aren't legions of failures.

The company is rhetorically asked to fix the problem, like if they could switch to the Yamaha Whale Gizz, or if they could replace a bearing, that all would be well. Since they don't "fix the problem" people say they are ignoring it. Meanwhile, the dealers don't pretend to be unaware, and when there is a specific problem, it gets addressed for free.

The problem does occur sometimes. That much is known. The documented history of events is small compared to the population of bikes in service. Replacing a final drive is not a trivial pursuit, so instead of issuing a recall, the company decides to warranty repairs on any bikes that end up with the problem. It turns out that this costs very little because there are very few bikes in need of the repairs.

A foolish design decision they made with the 05 GS series was to "permanently lube" the final drives. A significant number of these failed. BMW fixed them when they failed, and issued a service bulletin to include final drive lube replacement concurrent with 600 mile service.

The company strikes me as quite communicative and responsive.

More importantly, when I study the way they've designed and manufactured the modern K series, I feel the same lust that Dale feels about his FJR. I love the cleverness. I love the small touches that "delight" the customer.

I have some similar feelings about the FJR AE. It is a classy bike too, and it was good enough to drive me off of the idea that I wanted a K1200GT this Fall.

Are the K bikes or the FJRs overpriced for what they are? I dunno... I buy leftovers as a rule, and I never pay more than 65% of msrp. At 65% of msrp, they're nearly all good deals and worth what they cost.

 

[FJR1300KEN]

ooh, he said it again.
Mommy, please make the bad man go away!

:lol:

Sorry,I didn't know it was forbidden territory.It won't happen again h34r:

 

[FJR1300KEN]

I personally feel BMW has made progress by leaps and bounds over the last 5 or so yrs.10 yrs ago you wouldn't see anyone under the age of around 30 on one.Nowadays since the new K-bikes came out,and the others have been updated,and upgraded things are a little different.Sure theres gonna be failures,but there is on all makes,and some of those other makes are also catastrophic.Suzuki is having problems with their Busa wiring harnesses,and the Honda VTX 1300 has a huge recall on the petcocks for leaking when the engine is off(supposed to be vacumn operated).So its everywhere.Its just a matter of what you can or can't live with.

 

[RiderCoach Lar]

Forget Dog Pile Fridays. I think that as far as we're concerned here, we're into the Dog Pile Century on BMWs.

TheBlueStreak asked for comments regarding the new K1300GT....on a FJR Forum. What did you expect?

 

[TheBlueStreak]

I was reading the latest RIDER mag and they gave a quick review of the K1300. They said that the bike also now has a "maintenance free" final drive. I think they may have fixed the problem without telling us they did as to not admit there was ever a problem.

I own an 2008 FJR but have ridden the ST1300 and C-14. In alot of ways the C-14 did soem things better, smoothness and acceliration. I have not ridden the K1200GT but my Brother has, along with the ST & C14, and in his words he said if money was not an option, he would buy the BMW.

I think the FJR needs to get a "real" update, like more power, more smoothness & maybe a lighter weight.

I think it still offers the best package for the price, even though the 2009 MSRP went up by $600 for no improvement in the machine.

I look forward to riding the K1300GT at the Ameracade Rally in June.

Who knows, you might see my bike in the Classified section of this site!?!?!?

 

[camera56]

So this probably isn't the thread then to say that I bought one, huh? Massive end of year discount brought it down to the "stupidly expensive" from the "galactically expensive" category.

 

[beemerdons]

https://www.bmwmoa.org/ownersnews/BMWMOA_ON_Nov_08.pdf TheBlueStreak: As everyone that knows me in person and on this FJR Forum will tell you, I have been a BMW Loyalist for 40+ years and after returning from Mexico 10/21, 529K miles

SkooterG "****" routinely calls me a "Fat Nazi BMW *******"! Between taking him to lunch on Saturday at 2PM (he doesn't buy his own lunches) and getting off the phone with him 20 minutes ago, he called me a "Fat Nazi BMW *******" seven times

After we retake the Sudetenland; Hans, Dieter and I'll deal with Greg Marbach; perhaps a nice vacation camp near Dachau!

In the link above my BMWMOA friend Bill Shaw has written an updated and revised report of the Motorcycle Consumer News Article that he co-wrote with Anton Largiader, Technical Editor of BMW Riders Association "On The Level" and Paul Glaves, Technical Editor of BMW Motorcycle Owners Association "BMW Owners News". These three are "THE FD EXPERTS."

If you wanted to send me a mailing address at [email protected] I would be happy to print/send the eight pages to you.

This is a long article, but two paragraphs from Bill jumped out at me: 1) "No one we've spoken to knows the number of final drive failures for sure since BMW is replacing failed final drives as a whole unit and apparently sending every one back to Germany instead of repairing them." 2) "There is little doubt that BMW Motorrad has a serious and growing public relations problem. However, this appears to stem more from its refusal to acknowledge if there is a problem than the final drive failure rate. Unfortunately, BMW is not as forthcoming on this issue as its customers would like." Bill noted IBR and SPANK.

I've two of my three BMW's with the potential for a final drive failure: R1150RT and R1100GS; not an issue on new F650GS.

How does this affect me personally? Not a bit, I ride like hell on all three of my Beemers! How does this relate to my BMW MOA Club #89 "AZ Beemers"? After 15 years as a member, 10 of which were as a Club Officer; we've had two members with a final drive failure: Brad Zimmerman and Michael Sutherland. Wolfhound, vectervp1, SkooterG, BadCat and rest of Arizona FJR Forum have all ridden repeatedly with these men. Excellent mechanics, who maintain their BMW's very well!!!

I feel like a damn traitor saying this, my BMWMOA #24810 is from 1979 and BMWRA #21856 is from 1982: At this point in time I'm recommending to those who ask me: Wait until next Spring, to see if BMWNA and BMWAG addresses this problem!!

 

[Ignacio]

They said that the bike also now has a "maintenance free" final drive. I think they may have fixed the problem without telling us they did as to not admit there was ever a problem.

Oh yes. Just to clarify these would be "NEW new" maintenance free final drive I believe.

IIRC the "OLD new" maintenance free final drive released a few years back were intended to fix the final drive issue. However, it wasn't too long after those drives started to fail and that owners were forced to start swapping final drives as a twisted form of preventative maintenance and/or tapping them for a drain plug and convert them to a maintainable final drive.

Those drives also grenade with similar frequency to the early "original" final drives....and added barrels of Kool-Aid to the party.

......however, I'm sure the New new ones will finally be fixed. I hear various BMW purchasers are holding their breath.

 

[El Toro]

I've two of my three BMW's with the potential for a final drive failure: R1150RT and R1100GS; not an issue on new F650GS.
How does this affect me personally? Not a bit, I ride like hell on all three of my Beemers! How does this relate to my BMW MOA Club #89 "AZ Beemers"? After 15 years as a member, 10 of which were as a Club Officer; we've had two members with a final drive failure: Brad Zimmerman and Michael Sutherland. Wolfhound, vectervp1, SkooterG, BadCat and rest of Arizona FJR Forum have all ridden repeatedly with these men. Excellent mechanics, who maintain their BMW's very well!!!

I feel like a damn traitor saying this, my BMWMOA #24810 is from 1979 and BMWRA #21856 is from 1982: At this point in time I'm recommending to those who ask me: Wait until next Spring, to see if BMWNA and BMWAG addresses this problem!!

So you've been involved as a major participant for nearly 30 years, you've been involved in club level activities for 15 years, you've had two club members during this period that have had final drive failures, and you're telling people there's a problem and that they should wait to see what BMW does.... Huh???

I think the kool aid is being served by more than one marque here.

Regarding the idea of replacing whole units and sending the failed units back to Germany, this makes perfectly good sense. BMW does not have R&D staff for their motorcyle activities in the US so sending failed units back to the Vaterland makes perfectly good sense.

Maybe no one knows how large the problem is.... but this by itself is evidence that the problem is small. You say yourself that you've had two failures in your club during the last 15 years. How large do you think the problem is? Its not stopping you from riding yours.

Sigh.... :headbonk:

 

[Warchild]

Jeeze, El Toro, you've got this Kool Aid thing pretty bad....

According to MotoScribe Tom Austin, 20% of all BMW's entering in the 2007 Iron Butt Rally had hard drive failures. Just in that one event.

Here is a snippet from his final report:

The Tarnished Blue and White Roundel
A disproportionate number of the DNFs fall on the shoulders of BMW. BMW failed several riders, demonstrating that they are no longer capable of building motorcycles that can run 11,000 miles in 11 days without a significant fraction experiencing a catastrophic drivetrain failure of some sort. BMW of North America has requested contact information for the riders who experienced failures. The riders BMW should be more concerned about are the thousands of unsuspecting souls who will breakdown in the future because the company has lost its previous ability to either design durable drivetrain components or (more likely) adequately monitor production and assembly quality. It's way, way past time for BMW to fix its drivetrain reliability problems. A good start might be to acknowledge that there is a problem.

This passage comes from what was one of THE MOST hard-core Beemerphiles that ever walked the face of the earth. Seriously. There was no one on the planet who was more of a BMW fanatic than Tom Austin. His veins ran blue with BMW blood.

Until this year.

He has now punted every single BMW bike out of his considerably large garage (at least 3-4 very late-model Beemers). He rides a GL1800 now. It is still shocking every time I see him on it.

 

[El Toro]

Well, I agree there's kool aid being served. This guy's hyperbolic report about the thousands of folks who will be stranded is just crap. I'll bet there haven't been a thousand failures in the whole history of the so called final drive problem. You guys even have Beemerdon convinced that although his final drives aren't failing, other folks who might buy BMWs will have final drive failures if BMW doesn't do something soon.

Yup... no doubt there's kool aid involved, but you ain't gonna get me to take a sip.... no how, no way....

I'm headed to the beach. :beach:

Hey, one good thing's come of this for me. I was among the first in line to bash the H-D's even though I've never owned one. Not doing it any more. When one marque's forum spends its time bashing another marque's bike, you've got to wonder if there's some deep rooted psycho-drama in play, and I'm just not gonna be a participant any more. :banned:

Now Guzzi is another matter.

Hey, I thought BMW's were junk until I found myself with one in the garage. I thought Guzzi's were really neat.... until I found myself with one in the garage. :haha: