Do you “Hang Off” your FJR ??????

[jjsC6]

Good luck with trying to use logic. People are convinced that hanging off has made them the next world superbike champion despite the fact that most of them have never been on a race track.

Ummm Lots in there that are pretty general

I hang off, mildly to increase my ability to react. As I stated above I do it when sitting bolt upright would be fine for a given corner and speed.... assuming no problems.. But the extra attention to making it all right, including line, give me the ability to pull hard to the inside, if needed, to avoid that cell phone texting soccer mom in my lane oncoming

I have to agree with ExSkiBum.. It is about doing it and nailing it.. Seldom is it about speed for me.. After I exit a corner and pull hard... I get off the throttle.. I dont care to race from corner to corner.. I like the corner and that is where I have fun.

There are too many personalities and too many different styles, intents, and skill levels for such a general statement

Yeah, I knew my comment was going to take some pretty severe criticism. If I came across as a bit arrogont, or whatever, I give you credit for picking up my tone. I've been in this discussion on two different forums in the past week, and I don't mind admitting that I'm getting a little irritated by so many people proclaiming that hanging off is the holy grail of going around corners and if you aren't doing it, you should take up another hobby or at least switch to cruising on Harleys. At this point, I don't remember which forum it was, but someone actually said that in one of the threads.

I happen to think that there actually are some downsides to hanging off (for street riding), and I also think that people can have just as much fun in the twisties and be just as fast - at least on street bikes in street riding conditions - as those who are hanging off. I'm living proof of that. So is the guy I ride with every week who owns both a FJR and a Ducati 1198S. Neither one of us does more than a very slight shifting of weight, yet I'd bet that not many people take curves any faster than we do when the conditions are good.

I'm not saying that people should not hang off - I'm a believer that different people will be successful in their hobbies with different styles. I'm not slamming hanging off. I realize that I did sort of imply that in one of my replies, and for that I don't blame some of you for taking issue - my bad!

I would honestly be surprised if anyone here would tell you either hang off or buy a car... That is not usually the tone here.. This group since I have known them are very "Ride you own Ride" oriented.

The only other thing is your proclamation to being such a good rider therefore bla bla bla.. I am sure I can learn from you but I am also sure you would be surprised at the level of riding ability of many of the boards inhabitants herebouts

Remember, if you have to "tell" someone you are fast,, pretty,, smart,, whatever.. then there is a problem... and fast here is both subjective and relative to whom you are speaking to/with..

I can usually spot a skilled rider by the nature of their posts over time.. Then I get to ride with many from here too.. and for that I feel lucky

No worries from me.. I dont take myself that serious anyway.. it is exhausting

My proclamation to being a good rider is to allow people to understand who it is that is offering them advice. In my case, I actually can quantify how good I am by pointing to my record roadracing. When I read threads offering advice, I find it helpful to know what qualifies the person giving the advice. To offer an example, if Freddie Spencer came on this forum wouldn't it make a difference to you that his advice might be more meaninful than some asshat who has been riding a bike for 6 months and it's a Bergman? (yes, an extreme example, and no - I'm damn sure no Freddie Spencer. Just having a little fun to make a point).

To your comment "if you have to "tell" someone you are fast....". This is an internet forum - nobody here has seen me ride, so the only way I know to qualify myself it to "tell".

If anyone is offended, I apologize. Just don't blame me for being offended by people giving me advice who have never done what I've done.

By the way, I wish you lived near me. I think if you knew me in person you'd have a different opinion. I don't take myself seriously either, I don't try to blow my abilities out of proportion and I'm actually a pretty nice guy. Sometimes I just can't help but express my opinions a little bluntly - just like you have in your response.

 

[wheatonFJR]

...That's a pretty unfair and even arrogant comment. I don't think that I'm a superbike champion, and I don't think anyone who has posted a similar perspective here does, either.
The comment you're addressing also fails the logic test by its omission of relevant facts. Countersteering is the main component in making a bike's steering work. No one here is disputing that. But if it were the only issue, then it shouldn't matter what the hell the passenger or rider is doing on the bike. She leans hard right as you take the bike left? No problemo if only countersteering matters.

We've also had discussions about weighting the outside peg here. Different uses on the street. No one here (so far as I am aware) is trying to match the lean angle of pro racers on the street. Why would we want to? We don't have the rubber they do, or the safety of a controlled environment, and so I don't get taking the extreme example of what works there and applying it to riders here who are not trying to do that.

I wish we could have a discussion like this (of how many now on this forum??) without one or two "experts" calling anyone who uses an athletic approach a squid or suggesting he thinks he's a superbike champion. The other hyperbolic extrapolation in that is to suggest that most everyone in this discussion who admits to moving on the seat or "hanging off the bike" is comparable to what Rossi or Mladen look like coming through a corner (knee down, elbow an inch off the track). Truth is that we who do move on the bike (I've ridden with several) are probably closer to the conservative unmoving position of the critics here than to what you see on nearly every turn in Superbike or MotoGP competitions.

I'm with Mr . exskimeister. Good posting.

I move off the seat because it makes me feel more comfortable in the corners...gives me some more reserve lean in case the curve tightens up. I know I am no racer, and know people who are faster on the curves than me that do not move off. Sometimes they laugh at me...but that makes no difference to me.

 

[Cdogman]

If anyone is offended, I apologize. Just don't blame me for being offended by people giving me advice who have never done what I've done.
By the way, I wish you lived near me. I think if you knew me in person you'd have a different opinion. I don't take myself seriously either, I don't try to blow my abilities out of proportion and I'm actually a pretty nice guy. Sometimes I just can't help but express my opinions a little bluntly - just like you have in your response.

JJ, we don't have a problem and blunt works well for me. In fact I prefer it over tap dancing.

I too apologize then.. I am sure you can understand we get many an asshat here telling us how great they are offering advice, many that think ST boys are not real riders or we would all be on an 09 R1, with turbo, nitro, and stacked power commanders.. .. only to find out they "Know Someone" who is fast.. and his fast buddy knows someone even faster because they watched it on TV once while sharing a grape soda

I honestly don't know if I am fast or not.. But I do enjoy and try to do my best.. I would never be a road racer, even when I am not overweight and in extreme fighting trim I exceed the 240lb mark (I am a big boy, bigger now, but big when I am not bigger.. err umm yea thats it)

I seek the perfect line, nirvana is not defined by speed.. ... I know I am "usually" good enough so that when I over cook a corner I am fine. I have the ability to hold my line, pull it down farther.. and try to stifle a girl like giggle and I feel the tires bite while I roll on (zoooooooom ) :yahoo:

No worries

 

[BwanaDik]

My girlfriend does...usually screaming in semi-drunk warbling tones " Lemmeoffthisfukinthang "....until she forgets after a month or two and climbs back on....silly girl Myself..only to fart...its waiting for the right corner thats tricky !

Bobby

Finally! A sensible answer. I hang off to fart as it's poor form to stand on the pegs a waft away with the wifey on the back. But you can end up with the wrong kind of "skid marks" if leaning off too hard, thereby spreading your.......ah, never mind.

Have I told you guys about the bathrooms I've seen??

 

[exskibum]

Myself..only to fart...its waiting for the right corner thats tricky !

Finally! A sensible answer. I hang off to fart as it's poor form to stand on the pegs a waft away with the wifey on the back.

Not sure how I missed Bobby's post -- some fine understanding of riding technique right there. Those are the kind of postings where you can tell the experienced riders from the FNGs.

But Bwana -- I have issues with your reply, esp., the bolded part. You must be a squid and thinking you're MotoGP material if you're gonna tell me that standing up or lightening the load on the sphincter without hanging off is "poor form"!! You're ignoring the increased probability of sharting from the strain of hanging off . . . and that can be dangerous. Surely, the wifey would understand if you took the time to explain the possibility of a shart induced high side when you're hanging off the seat.

You know, some of this stuff just isn't safe anywhere but the track.

 

[Cdogman]

Surely, the wifey would understand if you took the time to explain the possibility of a shart induced high side when you're hanging off the seat.
You know, some of this stuff just isn't safe anywhere but the track.

I never gave it that much thought.. No wonder my suspension is never stable on a straight..

 

[Fred W]

Myself..only to fart...its waiting for the right corner thats tricky !

Finally! A sensible answer. I hang off to fart as it's poor form to stand on the pegs a waft away with the wifey on the back.

Not sure how I missed Bobby's post -- some fine understanding of riding technique right there. Those are the kind of postings where you can tell the experienced riders from the FNGs.

But Bwana -- I have issues with your reply, esp., the bolded part. You must be a squid and thinking you're MotoGP material if you're gonna tell me that standing up or lightening the load on the sphincter without hanging off is "poor form"!! You're ignoring the increased probability of sharting from the strain of hanging off . . . and that can be dangerous. Surely, the wifey would understand if you took the time to explain the possibility of a shart induced high side when you're hanging off the seat.

You know, some of this stuff just isn't safe anywhere but the track.

Sorry, that's where you are way off the (skid) mark. Haven't you heard?

"Shart happens"

 

[Karmak]

exskibum, when you say-

"But for me, if I'm in the moment like I try to be, my body position is set to address what is most likely to be the challenge in front of me -- which is how I've trained myself to try to see every corner or section I approach. If my weight was in my butt on the seat, I'd have a lot less athletic basis from which to react than with the method that Toe or I or JB or the dogmeister are suggesting, with our weight on the balls of our feet and moving on the pegs to best prepare the bike for each dynamic attitude we'll have to put it in. But that's me-"

If you re-read my post, I said "too far from one side of the bike or the other..." That is not to say all my weight in the center of the seat. I am referring to "hanging off" as opposed to shifting weight to one side or the other. I would love to see someone who is hanging significantly off to one side get back to the middle, or other side as quickly as would be necessary in some situations I have encountered.

As to "...my body position is set to address what is most likely to be the challenge in front of me...," I would ask what challenge around any given blind corner is "most likely" to be in front of you? Is it most likely to be a turkey (guy up here was just wiped out by one yesterday)? a deer? a family of geese? a bean truck? a tractor? a guy across both lanes pulling a cart with a lawn tractor? a dog? A partridge in a pear tree, three french hens, two maids a-milking, two turtle doves, Lords a-leaping? Oops, got sidetracked. However, all (and more) of the first group above have appeared in front of me unexpectedly at one time or another. Oh yeah, a turkey vulture also.

Kidding aside, I move from one side to the other, but avoid being significantly off, just in case. However, if your sight line is clear and the road is free from gunk, more fun to you!

 

[BwanaDik]

Myself..only to fart...its waiting for the right corner thats tricky !

Finally! A sensible answer. I hang off to fart as it's poor form to stand on the pegs a waft away with the wifey on the back.

Not sure how I missed Bobby's post -- some fine understanding of riding technique right there. Those are the kind of postings where you can tell the experienced riders from the FNGs.

But Bwana -- I have issues with your reply, esp., the bolded part. You must be a squid and thinking you're MotoGP material if you're gonna tell me that standing up or lightening the load on the sphincter without hanging off is "poor form"!! You're ignoring the increased probability of sharting from the strain of hanging off . . . and that can be dangerous. Surely, the wifey would understand if you took the time to explain the possibility of a shart induced high side when you're hanging off the seat.

You know, some of this stuff just isn't safe anywhere but the track.

I'm not sure it's safe anywhere.

Question: "What's the smartest muscle in the body?"

Answer: "The sphincter. It can tell the difference between a solid, a liquid, and a gas"

Unless you're in my industry where we have a thing called a "misible fluid" where it's a combination of all three but has all the same specific gravity (triple point).

Don't ask me how I know.....

 

[jjsC6]

If anyone is offended, I apologize. Just don't blame me for being offended by people giving me advice who have never done what I've done.
By the way, I wish you lived near me. I think if you knew me in person you'd have a different opinion. I don't take myself seriously either, I don't try to blow my abilities out of proportion and I'm actually a pretty nice guy. Sometimes I just can't help but express my opinions a little bluntly - just like you have in your response.

JJ, we don't have a problem and blunt works well for me. In fact I prefer it over tap dancing.

I too apologize then.. I am sure you can understand we get many an asshat here telling us how great they are offering advice, many that think ST boys are not real riders or we would all be on an 09 R1, with turbo, nitro, and stacked power commanders.. .. only to find out they "Know Someone" who is fast.. and his fast buddy knows someone even faster because they watched it on TV once while sharing a grape soda

I honestly don't know if I am fast or not.. But I do enjoy and try to do my best.. I would never be a road racer, even when I am not overweight and in extreme fighting trim I exceed the 240lb mark (I am a big boy, bigger now, but big when I am not bigger.. err umm yea thats it)

I seek the perfect line, nirvana is not defined by speed.. ... I know I am "usually" good enough so that when I over cook a corner I am fine. I have the ability to hold my line, pull it down farther.. and try to stifle a girl like giggle and I feel the tires bite while I roll on (zoooooooom ) :yahoo:

No worries

I agree with your comments. I like arguing with people who I can tell where they stand on an issue.

 

[exskibum]

As to "...my body position is set to address what is most likely to be the challenge in front of me...," I would ask what challenge around any given blind corner is "most likely" to be in front of you? Is it most likely to be a turkey (guy up here was just wiped out by one yesterday)? a deer? a family of geese? a bean truck? a tractor? a guy across both lanes pulling a cart with a lawn tractor? a dog?

Yeah -- I'd say all of those are potential hazards where I ride (mostly twisties, mostly in the Sierras and their foothills), but it's the idiot coming toward me over the line that I'd say is the most likely and most dangerous. In the late 70s/early 80s, I read a lot of the excerpted stuff from the Hurt report, too. That pretty well set up a number of situations that I look for (esp. cars that are about to or MIGHT make a left turn in front of me). Gravel, sand in corners, lots of stuff. I pay attention, I enjoy paying attention, and I try to give myself the best way out if it's needed. For ME, that's staying in an athletic position from which to react.

Obviously, I'm not riding at 95% either. I try to ride a line that leaves me an out. 42+ years has kinda informed me innately of where that's likely to be and what I'll be looking for. I'm comfortable with what I do, and I've avoided dangerous (and at least one almost certainly fatal) situations with it.

Anyone riding so close to the limit on the street where he or she is that committed to taking max speed through a turn that knee is down, bike over like WSB or MotoGP is going to be toast sooner or later.

 

[Spook]

There is a relationship to leaning (that is; body weighting/positioning) and countersteering.
I would recommend that you explore this relationship until it's totally understood and natural for you.

Here's some examples of what I mean;

As far as what I normally do in the tight stuff, I shift my weight from one butt cheek to the other while my upper body shifts as if I am trying to "kiss the mirrors".

I rarely "hang off" racing style.

In the tight stuff it's fairly easy to drag your toes on the FJR so it's important to get in the habit of having your feet positioned with the "balls" not the "arches" on the pegs.

To be smooth is the key to riding well. Body position shifts left in advance of a sharp left. This keeps the bike from having to lean as much for a stable carve.

As you finish your weight shifts back to the right which keeps the bike leaning left a little bit longer and also sets up for the next sharp right......................

If you have a throttle lock, you can practice this; Use a road without other traffic with easy turns that can be handled at a light speed.

Keep your hands right over the grips but try not to touch them (unless it becomes needed-then they're right there).

So in effect you're riding with no hands.

You will be able to steer the bike through the turns by just shifting your weight.

Then grip the bars normally, practice countersteering with your body totally upright, in relation to the bike. Push left-turn left. Push right-turn right.

Now practice extreme leaning........knee down or not but really get the weight to the left for a left.

Try that with your throttle lock and no hands and what will happen? Your left turn would be more extreme than the line needed to get through the turn.

In order to keep the bike on course (without changing your body position)you will have to apply counter steer pushing right to move the bike to the right even though you are going around a left turn.

From this, you can see that too much body lean is not only not required (in most situations) but actually creates a need to "anti-countersteer" to keep the bike on its proper course.

So ideally, I think I could say, the perfect amount of body lean at a given time will minimize the required handlebar inputs needed and maximize your tires' traction.

That said, it depends on what you want to do. On milder roads, you may actually want to lean the "wrong way" just to get the bike to lean over farther for a less boring ride. Doing this in some degree actually has a practical advantage of increasing your visual horizon around a blind spot................but that's another topic.

Changing the subject slightly, I have noticed on my FJR that whenever I remove both hands from the bars with a throttle lock on, the front end stsrts to shimmy. Any idea why?

Front tire getting worn.

 

[SebringSilver]

some asshat who has been riding a bike for 6 months and it's a Bergman?

Hey, That's me!!!!!!

That's why I started this thread to ask for advise and not give it. (BTW, my last bike was a Burgman, Big Learning Curve !! )

Thanks again for all your great responses and lets get away from "my dick is bigger than your dick" and " I'm faster than you" bullsh*t.

Most of you have given advice that recommends safety and control through turns, not speed. That is what I hope to achieve.

 

[jjsC6]

some asshat who has been riding a bike for 6 months and it's a Bergman?

Hey, That's me!!!!!!

That's why I started this thread to ask for advise and not give it. (BTW, my last bike was a Burgman, Big Learning Curve !! )

Thanks again for all your great responses and lets get away from "my dick is bigger than your dick" and " I'm faster than you" bullsh*t.

Most of you have given advice that recommends safety and control through turns, not speed. That is what I hope to achieve.

If you are serious about coming from a Burgman (spelled correctly!), I apologize to you. I did not know that and despite being a dick sometimes, I really never mean to insult anyone (unless provoked).

 

[SebringSilver]

If you are serious about coming from a Burgman (spelled correctly!), I apologize to you. I did not know that and despite being a dick sometimes, I really never mean to insult anyone (unless provoked).

No Problem....... I thought it was funny and completely unintentional.

But now you understand why I look for advise from this Forum and books to help me make this transition,

I rode early in life, took 20 years off to raise kids and the Burgman was my introduction back to two-wheels. However, it didn’t take me long to want more and that led me to the FJR. Best decision I’ve made, Love It!!!

 

[jjsC6]

If you are serious about coming from a Burgman (spelled correctly!), I apologize to you. I did not know that and despite being a dick sometimes, I really never mean to insult anyone (unless provoked).

No Problem....... I thought it was funny and completely unintentional.

Open mouth....

But now you understand why I look for advise from this Forum and books to help me make this transition,

The nice thing about advice on forums is that its free. At least we gave you some entertainment, and hopefully a little advice

I rode early in life, took 20 years off to raise kids and the Burgman was my introduction back to two-wheels. However, it didn’t take me long to want more and that led me to the FJR. Best decision I’ve made, Love It!!!

I did very similar. I had ridden very seriously from 1971 to 1987, including a few years of amateur roadracing. Then I got into boats and got our of motorcycles for 17 years. Despite all the experience I had years ago, I was somewhat surprised at how "rusty" I was at riding again. It took me a good six months of riding carefully and being aware that my limits had regressed quite a bit before I got back to a comfort level that I was happy with, and probably another year after that of feeling that I was back to the level of went I had quit riding.

Good luck!

 

[palerider]

some asshat who has been riding a bike for 6 months and it's a Bergman?

Hey, That's me!!!!!!

That's why I started this thread to ask for advise and not give it. (BTW, my last bike was a Burgman, Big Learning Curve !! )

Thanks again for all your great responses and lets get away from "my dick is bigger than your dick" and " I'm faster than you" bullsh*t.

Most of you have given advice that recommends safety and control through turns, not speed. That is what I hope to achieve.

But my dick IS bigger than your dick.

:assassin:

 

[Fred W]

I did very similar. I had ridden very seriously from 1971 to 1987, including a few years of amateur roadracing. Then I got into boats and got our of motorcycles for 17 years. Despite all the experience I had years ago, I was somewhat surprised at how "rusty" I was at riding again. It took me a good six months of riding carefully and being aware that my limits had regressed quite a bit before I got back to a comfort level that I was happy with, and probably another year after that of feeling that I was back to the level of went I had quit riding.

The other thing to keep in mind when "returning" is that, you aren't as young as you used to be. That means that your mind may be sharper, (and more full of impotent knowledge) but your reflexes aren't.

People sometimes say that when you pass 40 you're then "over the hill". From a purely metaphysical standpoint it's more like 20. :glare:

 

[Karmak]

As to "...my body position is set to address what is most likely to be the challenge in front of me...," I would ask what challenge around any given blind corner is "most likely" to be in front of you? Is it most likely to be a turkey (guy up here was just wiped out by one yesterday)? a deer? a family of geese? a bean truck? a tractor? a guy across both lanes pulling a cart with a lawn tractor? a dog?

Yeah -- I'd say all of those are potential hazards where I ride (mostly twisties, mostly in the Sierras and their foothills), but it's the idiot coming toward me over the line that I'd say is the most likely and most dangerous. In the late 70s/early 80s, I read a lot of the excerpted stuff from the Hurt report, too. That pretty well set up a number of situations that I look for (esp. cars that are about to or MIGHT make a left turn in front of me). Gravel, sand in corners, lots of stuff. I pay attention, I enjoy paying attention, and I try to give myself the best way out if it's needed. For ME, that's staying in an athletic position from which to react.

Obviously, I'm not riding at 95% either. I try to ride a line that leaves me an out. 42+ years has kinda informed me innately of where that's likely to be and what I'll be looking for. I'm comfortable with what I do, and I've avoided dangerous (and at least one almost certainly fatal) situations with it.

Anyone riding so close to the limit on the street where he or she is that committed to taking max speed through a turn that knee is down, bike over like WSB or MotoGP is going to be toast sooner or later.

I agree, that is, I consider an "athletic" position a position in which allows a quick transition to meet whatever circumstances arise.

I ride in a number of gorges in the foothills of the Adirondacks and also roads in the Adirondack and Berkshire mountains-but unfortunately have quit a couple of my favorites nearer the cities/towns because squids have found them and you are as likely as not to encounter one coming at you from the opposite direction in your lane. In fact, at one of my favorites (Ilion Gorge), an idiot on a CBR would wait at the entrance of the gorge for you to enter, wait a while, chase you and eventually pass. At first I thought it was coincidence, until the fourth or fifth time. He does show some skill, but sooner or later a washout from one of the steep banks will bite him, or someone coming across the line. I did follow him a couple of times to see how the Feej would fare with the CBR and to see if he knew what he was doing, but haven't been back since due to the increase in squids. Aside from squids and the usual cagers over the line or pulling out of driveways, sideroads, etc. the next most prevalent danger is deer, they are all over like rats, but luckily the Feej has not tasted venison yet.

 

[jjsC6]

some asshat who has been riding a bike for 6 months and it's a Bergman?

Hey, That's me!!!!!!

That's why I started this thread to ask for advise and not give it. (BTW, my last bike was a Burgman, Big Learning Curve !! )

Thanks again for all your great responses and lets get away from "my dick is bigger than your dick" and " I'm faster than you" bullsh*t.

Most of you have given advice that recommends safety and control through turns, not speed. That is what I hope to achieve.

But my dick IS bigger than your dick.

:assassin:

yeah, but do you hang off your dick?

The other thing to keep in mind when "returning" is that, you aren't as young as you used to be. That means that your mind may be sharper, (and more full of impotent knowledge) but your reflexes aren't.
People sometimes say that when you pass 40 you're then "over the hill". From a purely metaphysical standpoint it's more like 20.

No question about that. But for most - myself included, it goes beyond being sharper. I can absolutely promise you that I am much more cautious of blind curves, road conditions and other hazards than I was years ago.

On a related note though, I was not your typical roadracer. Most folks who do that started out dirt riding when they were a kid and worked their way up. I never road a dirt bike, and didn't start roadracing until I was 28 years old. There are two sides to that. Had I started younger I think I would have really been good, but I might have really been hurt along the way also.