Do you “Hang Off” your FJR ??????

[Karmak]

I agree that it can be a bit neat at times, but also agree with a number of fellows above who believe it is pushing the envelope. If you know the road's clear and have a good sight line, fine. However, I can think of many a blind curve around here that I have come around and faced a vehicle slowing down, bean trucks, deer, turkeys, etc. Being relatively upright, I could change my line without much fuss. But, if I had been hanging off too far from one side of the bike or the other, the time it would have taken to reposition or scoot the other way would have had me snookered.

 

[northern rider]

** But you'd almost have to be numb not to be able to notice the difference if you're paying attention. Given the same speed into a blind corner -- if one rider is on the inside peg and the second is straight up when the suddenly decreasing radius surprises them, it's going to take the first one much less time and effort to do what is necessary to avoid that offroading excursion from going wide.

ok i am having some trouble with this. a bike does not go around a corner because you hang off the side or weigh that side down. it goes around a corner due to countersteering. keith code has a video in which he rides a bike with the bars locked in place and tries to turn by hanging off to one side to no avail. the bike will not turn. hanging off the inside does change the center of gravity, allows the bike to remain more upright = tire not near the outer edge. also, chapter 19 of totw2 goes into detail about putting pressure on the outside peg to force your knee into the tank. watching GP as the riders corner hard, their foot is pointed towards the turn and barely on the peg. have a look at the next GP. rossi, pedrossa and others actually let their inside foot hang OFF the inside peg.

just some observations

 

[FJRBluesman]

I've slowed way down because so much can go wrong out in the country, mostly poor road conditions, DY crossing cages, and farm equipment exiting from blind driveways around the corner. And oh yeah, I got a ticket for crossing a DY and CANNOT afford another ticket!So I've slowed down. But what I have discovered is that I get a great amount of pleasure, not out of going through a turn fast, but out of going through it smoothly and technically correctly (based on the stuff I learned at StreetMasters and Lee Parks, and maybe some Pridmore, and in reading Code). And what I find is that, as I become better at being smooth and accurate while relatively slow, I become safer if I up the pace or get in too hot or a decreasing radius.

Form, not speed.

Jb

It's all prologue.
Well said JB.

 

[exskibum]

was that BlueStreek between me and Ex?

I believe it was.

But what I have discovered is that I get a great amount of pleasure, not out of going through a turn fast, but out of going through it smoothly and technically correctly (based on the stuff I learned at StreetMasters and Lee Parks, and maybe some Pridmore, and in reading Code). And what I find is that, as I become better at being smooth and accurate while relatively slow, I become safer if I up the pace or get in too hot or a decreasing radius.
Form, not speed.

Nailed it right there, Hans. You're describing what I'd refer to as "nailing a corner or a line". That sense you feel in being a kinesthetic part of that smooth line through, where you feel in maximum control of that blade, edge, carving contact patch the most effortlessly, and with the least giveway of traction points. Same as playing the guitar with others and nailing the rhythm and THAT note -- you FEEL it when you nail it. When you get good at doing it slow, of course, then you can do it faster just as easily. But that doesn't mean that your increasing skills require that you don the squid persona and try to see how fast you can get through a section. Some of us just like riding "The Pace" and nailing the corners -- it FREAKING FEELS GOOD!!!!!

Being relatively upright, I could change my line without much fuss. But, if I had been hanging off too far from one side of the bike or the other, the time it would have taken to reposition or scoot the other way would have had me snookered.

Just absolutely could not disagree more fervently with that statement, but if that works for you, then that's great and I wouldn't try to convince you to do otherwise.

But for me, if I'm in the moment like I try to be, my body position is set to address what is most likely to be the challenge in front of me -- which is how I've trained myself to try to see every corner or section I approach. If my weight was in my butt on the seat, I'd have a lot less athletic basis from which to react than with the method that Toe or I or JB or the dogmeister are suggesting, with our weight on the balls of our feet and moving on the pegs to best prepare the bike for each dynamic attitude we'll have to put it in. But that's me.

IMO, it's ALL ABOUT riding a carving rubber patch (or edge or blade) in a variable traction environment. First and foremost, you MUST have a keen, accurate and immediate sensory hook up with the surface you're on and how many more traction points you have to spend (how much more you can push any combination of traction using/diminishing variables) before it lets loose laterally. And then it's about managing THAT. For me, I best do that by moving on the pegs to give myself the best sense of control and margin for error. I'm sure everyone is different, but that's what works for me.

** But you'd almost have to be numb not to be able to notice the difference if you're paying attention. Given the same speed into a blind corner -- if one rider is on the inside peg and the second is straight up when the suddenly decreasing radius surprises them, it's going to take the first one much less time and effort to do what is necessary to avoid that offroading excursion from going wide.

ok i am having some trouble with this. a bike does not go around a corner because you hang off the side or weigh that side down. it goes around a corner due to countersteering. keith code has a video in which he rides a bike with the bars locked in place and tries to turn by hanging off to one side to no avail. the bike will not turn. hanging off the inside does change the center of gravity, allows the bike to remain more upright = tire not near the outer edge. also, chapter 19 of totw2 goes into detail about putting pressure on the outside peg to force your knee into the tank. watching GP as the riders corner hard, their foot is pointed towards the turn and barely on the peg. have a look at the next GP. rossi, pedrossa and others actually let their inside foot hang OFF the inside peg.

just some observations

Why don't you just go out and try all those things?

 

[exskibum]

delete please -- posting error.

 

[Sir Price]

I don't lean enough to drag knee or get close to it but hit the pegs plenty. What is really cool is when the pillion rider is doing it too. :yahoo:

I used to drag pegs two until I set up the suspenders , after that I havent touched down , that includes a fast 4500 kilometer ride around the best bike roads in the world Tasmania. :clapping:

 

[jjsC6]

** But you'd almost have to be numb not to be able to notice the difference if you're paying attention. Given the same speed into a blind corner -- if one rider is on the inside peg and the second is straight up when the suddenly decreasing radius surprises them, it's going to take the first one much less time and effort to do what is necessary to avoid that offroading excursion from going wide.

ok i am having some trouble with this. a bike does not go around a corner because you hang off the side or weigh that side down. it goes around a corner due to countersteering. keith code has a video in which he rides a bike with the bars locked in place and tries to turn by hanging off to one side to no avail. the bike will not turn. hanging off the inside does change the center of gravity, allows the bike to remain more upright = tire not near the outer edge. also, chapter 19 of totw2 goes into detail about putting pressure on the outside peg to force your knee into the tank. watching GP as the riders corner hard, their foot is pointed towards the turn and barely on the peg. have a look at the next GP. rossi, pedrossa and others actually let their inside foot hang OFF the inside peg.

just some observations

Good luck with trying to use logic. People are convinced that hanging off has made them the next world superbike champion despite the fact that most of them have never been on a race track.

 

[Cdogman]

Good luck with trying to use logic. People are convinced that hanging off has made them the next world superbike champion despite the fact that most of them have never been on a race track.

Ummm Lots in there that are pretty general

I hang off, mildly to increase my ability to react. As I stated above I do it when sitting bolt upright would be fine for a given corner and speed.... assuming no problems.. But the extra attention to making it all right, including line, give me the ability to pull hard to the inside, if needed, to avoid that cell phone texting soccer mom in my lane oncoming

I have to agree with ExSkiBum.. It is about doing it and nailing it.. Seldom is it about speed for me.. After I exit a corner and pull hard... I get off the throttle.. I dont care to race from corner to corner.. I like the corner and that is where I have fun.

There are too many personalities and too many different styles, intents, and skill levels for such a general statement

 

[exskibum]

** But you'd almost have to be numb not to be able to notice the difference if you're paying attention. Given the same speed into a blind corner -- if one rider is on the inside peg and the second is straight up when the suddenly decreasing radius surprises them, it's going to take the first one much less time and effort to do what is necessary to avoid that offroading excursion from going wide.

ok i am having some trouble with this. a bike does not go around a corner because you hang off the side or weigh that side down. it goes around a corner due to countersteering. keith code has a video in which he rides a bike with the bars locked in place and tries to turn by hanging off to one side to no avail. the bike will not turn. hanging off the inside does change the center of gravity, allows the bike to remain more upright = tire not near the outer edge. also, chapter 19 of totw2 goes into detail about putting pressure on the outside peg to force your knee into the tank. watching GP as the riders corner hard, their foot is pointed towards the turn and barely on the peg. have a look at the next GP. rossi, pedrossa and others actually let their inside foot hang OFF the inside peg.

just some observations

Good luck with trying to use logic. People are convinced that hanging off has made them the next world superbike champion despite the fact that most of them have never been on a race track.

That's a pretty unfair and even arrogant comment. I don't think that I'm a superbike champion, and I don't think anyone who has posted a similar perspective here does, either.

The comment you're addressing also fails the logic test by its omission of relevant facts. Countersteering is the main component in making a bike's steering work. No one here is disputing that. But if it were the only issue, then it shouldn't matter what the hell the passenger or rider is doing on the bike. She leans hard right as you take the bike left? No problemo if only countersteering matters.

We've also had discussions about weighting the outside peg here. Different uses on the street. No one here (so far as I am aware) is trying to match the lean angle of pro racers on the street. Why would we want to? We don't have the rubber they do, or the safety of a controlled environment, and so I don't get taking the extreme example of what works there and applying it to riders here who are not trying to do that.

I wish we could have a discussion like this (of how many now on this forum??) without one or two "experts" calling anyone who uses an athletic approach a squid or suggesting he thinks he's a superbike champion. The other hyperbolic extrapolation in that is to suggest that most everyone in this discussion who admits to moving on the seat or "hanging off the bike" is comparable to what Rossi or Mladen look like coming through a corner (knee down, elbow an inch off the track). Truth is that we who do move on the bike (I've ridden with several) are probably closer to the conservative unmoving position of the critics here than to what you see on nearly every turn in Superbike or MotoGP competitions.

 

[Phugedaboudet]

I do a little bit especially on big sweeping overpasses where I can experiment with position and see how it affects my line. But being as "inseam challenged" as i am, it's hard to get over without coming off the opposite peg or not being able to reach controls, so I'm pretty limited on what hanging i do attempt.

 

[playgtar]

I've been hanging one cheek off, and it's fun. It seems to drive through the corners and hold them a bit better for me.

 

[zorkler]

I will say it again a 680lb motorcycle (Add in the rider lets say 185lbs) total weight 865lbs. In the twsties needs some type of body english plain and simple .

 

[Cdogman]

My bike is Bi-Lingual.. Give it a little Italian Love too

 

[zorkler]

Cdogman i dont go that way .And most Italials dont go that way sorry .

 

[jackplanet514]

Good luck with trying to use logic. People are convinced that hanging off has made them the next world superbike champion despite the fact that most of them have never been on a race track.

I have to agree with ExSkiBum.. It is about doing it and nailing it.. Seldom is it about speed for me.. After I exit a corner and pull hard... I get off the throttle.. I dont care to race from corner to corner.. I like the corner and that is where I have fun.

Totally agree, just about anyone can go fast on the straights.

 

[jjsC6]

Good luck with trying to use logic. People are convinced that hanging off has made them the next world superbike champion despite the fact that most of them have never been on a race track.

Ummm Lots in there that are pretty general

I hang off, mildly to increase my ability to react. As I stated above I do it when sitting bolt upright would be fine for a given corner and speed.... assuming no problems.. But the extra attention to making it all right, including line, give me the ability to pull hard to the inside, if needed, to avoid that cell phone texting soccer mom in my lane oncoming

I have to agree with ExSkiBum.. It is about doing it and nailing it.. Seldom is it about speed for me.. After I exit a corner and pull hard... I get off the throttle.. I dont care to race from corner to corner.. I like the corner and that is where I have fun.

There are too many personalities and too many different styles, intents, and skill levels for such a general statement

Yeah, I knew my comment was going to take some pretty severe criticism. If I came across as a bit arrogont, or whatever, I give you credit for picking up my tone. I've been in this discussion on two different forums in the past week, and I don't mind admitting that I'm getting a little irritated by so many people proclaiming that hanging off is the holy grail of going around corners and if you aren't doing it, you should take up another hobby or at least switch to cruising on Harleys. At this point, I don't remember which forum it was, but someone actually said that in one of the threads.

I happen to think that there actually are some downsides to hanging off (for street riding), and I also think that people can have just as much fun in the twisties and be just as fast - at least on street bikes in street riding conditions - as those who are hanging off. I'm living proof of that. So is the guy I ride with every week who owns both a FJR and a Ducati 1198S. Neither one of us does more than a very slight shifting of weight, yet I'd bet that not many people take curves any faster than we do when the conditions are good.

I'm not saying that people should not hang off - I'm a believer that different people will be successful in their hobbies with different styles. I'm not slamming hanging off. I realize that I did sort of imply that in one of my replies, and for that I don't blame some of you for taking issue - my bad!

 

[BobbyBlue]

My girlfriend does...usually screaming in semi-drunk warbling tones " Lemmeoffthisfukinthang "....until she forgets after a month or two and climbs back on....silly girl

Myself..only to fart...its waiting for the right corner thats tricky !

Bobby

 

[Cdogman]

Cdogman i dont go that way .And most Italials dont go that way sorry .

My bike is a girl.. and she goes any way I ask her too.. <_< LOL

 

[Cdogman]

Good luck with trying to use logic. People are convinced that hanging off has made them the next world superbike champion despite the fact that most of them have never been on a race track.

Ummm Lots in there that are pretty general

I hang off, mildly to increase my ability to react. As I stated above I do it when sitting bolt upright would be fine for a given corner and speed.... assuming no problems.. But the extra attention to making it all right, including line, give me the ability to pull hard to the inside, if needed, to avoid that cell phone texting soccer mom in my lane oncoming

I have to agree with ExSkiBum.. It is about doing it and nailing it.. Seldom is it about speed for me.. After I exit a corner and pull hard... I get off the throttle.. I dont care to race from corner to corner.. I like the corner and that is where I have fun.

There are too many personalities and too many different styles, intents, and skill levels for such a general statement

Yeah, I knew my comment was going to take some pretty severe criticism. If I came across as a bit arrogont, or whatever, I give you credit for picking up my tone. I've been in this discussion on two different forums in the past week, and I don't mind admitting that I'm getting a little irritated by so many people proclaiming that hanging off is the holy grail of going around corners and if you aren't doing it, you should take up another hobby or at least switch to cruising on Harleys. At this point, I don't remember which forum it was, but someone actually said that in one of the threads.

I happen to think that there actually are some downsides to hanging off (for street riding), and I also think that people can have just as much fun in the twisties and be just as fast - at least on street bikes in street riding conditions - as those who are hanging off. I'm living proof of that. So is the guy I ride with every week who owns both a FJR and a Ducati 1198S. Neither one of us does more than a very slight shifting of weight, yet I'd bet that not many people take curves any faster than we do when the conditions are good.

I'm not saying that people should not hang off - I'm a believer that different people will be successful in their hobbies with different styles. I'm not slamming hanging off. I realize that I did sort of imply that in one of my replies, and for that I don't blame some of you for taking issue - my bad!

I would honestly be surprised if anyone here would tell you either hang off or buy a car... That is not usually the tone here.. This group since I have known them are very "Ride you own Ride" oriented.

The only other thing is your proclamation to being such a good rider therefore bla bla bla.. I am sure I can learn from you but I am also sure you would be surprised at the level of riding ability of many of the boards inhabitants herebouts

Remember, if you have to "tell" someone you are fast,, pretty,, smart,, whatever.. then there is a problem... and fast here is both subjective and relative to whom you are speaking to/with..

I can usually spot a skilled rider by the nature of their posts over time.. Then I get to ride with many from here too.. and for that I feel lucky

No worries from me.. I dont take myself that serious anyway.. it is exhausting

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

<snip>...I've been in this discussion on two different forums in the past week, ....so many people proclaiming that hanging off is the holy grail of going around corners and if you aren't doing it, you should take up another hobby or at least switch to cruising on Harleys. At this point, I don't remember which forum it was, but someone actually said that in one of the threads.

Harleys and other cruisers are the bikes on which riders may need to 'hang off' the most -- to prevent grounding hard parts in turns.

Grounding hard parts: centerstand, side stand, mufflers/exhaust, frame (even); and either lever-ing the rear tire off the road (slide) or causing bike and rider to go wide in a turn and cross the DY and into oncoming ..... :huh: