Going to the Dark Side

[RadioHowie]

And don't make ANY judgements until you have a couple hunnert miles on that heresy.

 

[user 213]

Well... <snip>

So this morning I took the plunge and ordered up a Yokohama Avid ENVigor from Tire Rack.

I couldn't find anyone else having reported using that one. I think it is a new model. But the specs look good and the price is great at $137 shipped. I already have another PR2 in the garage as a fall back, just in case I have a Bungie and hate the CT feel, but I just have to see what all the fuss is about for myself.

Full report and pitchers in a week or so.

LowandSilent is also running the Yokohama Avid ENVigor. You might PM him for his comments. I look forward to reading your review Fred. You're a sharp guy and have a good background for well thought out and detailed observations.

What I've seen so far from other riders that wear their tires like you do is that once they get used to the feel, it doesn't slow them down at all. They still get far more mileage than a moto tire, but not up to what the more touring oriented riders get on the CT. And don't be shy, if you feel it sucks, say that too and why. :thumbsup:

 

[FJReady]

Glad you finally made a decision on this issue Fred, You've been wrestlin with this call for a while I believe. Anxious to see how it works out for ya

 

[palerider]

So this morning I took the plunge and ordered up a Yokohama Avid ENVigor from Tire Rack.

I couldn't find anyone else having reported using that one. I think it is a new model. But the specs look good and the price is great at $137 shipped. I already have another PR2 in the garage as a fall back, just in case I have a Bungie and hate the CT feel, but I just have to see what all the fuss is about for myself.

Full report and pitchers in a week or so.

Anxious to hear if your balls fall off.

That would be a data point.

 

[Fred W]

Anxious to hear if your balls fall off.

That would be a data point.

technically, that would be two data points.

 

[garyahouse]

With all that FJR wisdom you've got, I'm surprised that you didn't know that RESISTANCE WAS FUTILE, Fred.

Seriously, I've enjoyed reading your posts like... forever. Looking forward to your opinion on darksiding.

Gary

darksider #44

 

[Fred W]

Ruh roh!

New CT arrived today by the brown truck (the Tire Rack is fast!)

Man-oh-man this thing is humongous! The outside section width dimension (uninflated) is ~ 8 7/8". I realize that it may become narrower when mounted on a skinny rim and inflated, but it sure doesn't look like this will fit inside the swingarm just sitting there. According to the Tire Rack's specs the section width is supposed to be thinner than the Michelin Pilot Exalto so many have been using.

I had visions of manually spooning this thing onto the rim but looking at this beast now, I don't know if that is possible. I'd definitely have to fab something to squeeze the beads together as they are sitting at 7" with some pretty stiff sidewalls.

Hmmm...

I did leave a PM for LowandSilent but he hasn't been on the forum for a month.

 

[user 213]

Ruh roh!

New CT arrived today by the brown truck (the Tire Rack is fast!)

Man-oh-man this thing is humongous! The outside section width dimension (uninflated) is ~ 8 7/8". I realize that it may become narrower when mounted on a skinny rim and inflated, but it sure doesn't look like this will fit inside the swingarm just sitting there. According to the Tire Rack's specs the section width is supposed to be thinner than the Michelin Pilot Exalto so many have been using.

I had visions of manually spooning this thing onto the rim but looking at this beast now, I don't know if that is possible. I'd definitely have to fab something to squeeze the beads together as they are sitting at 7" with some pretty stiff sidewalls.

It will fit. Catfish did spoon his on with a manual changer, IIRC, but I wouldn't try it. The real challenge is keeping the first bead in the 'well' while you get the second bead over the rim. Some blocks to hold it up may work, but it's a two person job from my experience, sometimes even with the professional power tire changer.

America's Tire or just about any place local to you will have a rim clamp tire changer. Just walk it in off the bike and say you need a tire mounted for your trike or sidecar. They can get their head around that and will usually charge you the std fee for a dismount/mount. They won't be able to balance it, you it sounds like you can do that yourself easy.

If you're ready with the new brake tension arm and have it mounted on the outside of the tabs, you're golden.

 

[Patriot]

how does one pick a CT...I assume it the one that handles most like a MT

 

[user 213]

how does one pick a CT...I assume it the one that handles most like a MT

More rounded edges make a significant difference in turn in feel. In the beginning I did not realize how much of a difference this would make. FJRONAMISSION showed us that it would have a noticeable impact. The original BT-019G Grid All season tire is pretty good. The Exalto is noticeably better and smoother in turn in. More bike like, more "flickable".

I look for a symmetrical tread design too, which is my preference. People are running non-symmetrical tires w/o issues. I also prefer an All Season tire with a speed rating of at least S, though some prefer to limit themselves to Z rated tires. The Speed ratings are for sustained use at those speeds, so take that with a grain of salt. I take that to mean hours, not minutes. Your riding style can decide what's important for you. I also look for a wear rating of 400+, ideally. Each tire manufacturer is allowed to rate their own tire for wear, so you get some wide variations in how they really wear for a given number. Still, a 200 wear rating is likely not going to last 40k on the FJR. More like 20-25k.

 

[E.T.]

Ruh roh!

New CT arrived today by the brown truck (the Tire Rack is fast!)

Well, did you get it spooned on yet?

I would think it has to be easier to put on than a RF on a Goldwing (which I have installed 3 manually).

 

[Patriot]

how does one pick a CT...I assume it the one that handles most like a MT

More rounded edges make a significant difference in turn in feel. In the beginning I did not realize how much of a difference this would make. FJRONAMISSION showed us that it would have a noticeable impact. The original BT-019G Grid All season tire is pretty good. The Exalto is noticeably better and smoother in turn in. More bike like, more "flickable".

I look for a symmetrical tread design too, which is my preference. People are running non-symmetrical tires w/o issues. I also prefer an All Season tire with a speed rating of at least S, though some prefer to limit themselves to Z rated tires. The Speed ratings are for sustained use at those speeds, so take that with a grain of salt. I take that to mean hours, not minutes. Your riding style can decide what's important for you. I also look for a wear rating of 400+, ideally. Each tire manufacturer is allowed to rate their own tire for wear, so you get some wide variations in how they really wear for a given number. Still, a 200 wear rating is likely not going to last 40k on the FJR. More like 20-25k.

exalto it would be...thanx much...

maybe somebody with ct preferable exalto will be at eom for me to test ride

just put a new pr2 on...will watch and take notes for next 14k mi

 

[Floridave]

I put the exalto on with my harbor freight changer. It wasn't a problem at all.

 

[Fred W]

Well then... perhaps I should have followed the herd and got the Michelin Exalto. It must be a softer sidewall tire than this Yoko.

Made an earnest attempt to mount the Avid ENVigor yesterday afternoon. The first bead went on the wheel easy peasy, just like a moto tire. Lubed it up good and thrust it at the restrained wheel at just the right angle and "pop" she's on. But there was no way in hell that I could hold the 2nd bead down into the wheel valley to lever on the opposite side. I tried a few different clamps and various blocks of wood. No go. The problem is that the beads on the tire are > 7" apart and the tire walls are pretty stiff.

The next time I hear anyone complain about how difficult it is to mount any motorcycle tire I will laugh profusely at them. <_<

Threw the half mounted tire in the back of the Jeep and drove to a few local tire shops to see if they'd help me:

"Oh no. We won't touch a motorcycle wheel! You'll have to go to a motorcycle shop."

Yeah right. I know the local MC shops. They won't even mount MC tires I bought online.

Went back home, pulled the CT off and popped the waiting PR2 onto the wheel, had it balanced and back on the bike in about 15-20 minutes. So I guess my car tire test is on hold for another 8k miles at least. That should give me time to figure out how to get the damn thing mounted.

Which brings up one downside for this whole CT shenanigans: If I can't mount it at home with standard hand tools, then it is much less convenient (to me) than a moto-tire.

But I'm not giving up yet. I should probably start looking for a second rear (ABS) wheel. Anyone have one they want to sell? Time to scour eBay...

 

[Larry33319]

A friend just sent me this. Asked me if I would switch back to a moto tire because of it. I do not think so. The wet handling of the CT seems to be better to me,the way I ride, than it was with a moto tire.

New tire good for 40,000 KM

 

[user 213]

Well then... perhaps I should have followed the herd and got the Michelin Exalto. It must be a softer sidewall tire than this Yoko.

<snip>

Which brings up one downside for this whole CT shenanigans: If I can't mount it at home with standard hand tools, then it is much less convenient (to me) than a moto-tire.

Sorry to hear of the difficulties. Not sure the Exalto would be any easier for you to mount than the ENVigor. The first tire I tested required every tool we had and two large guys on a manual changer. Sometimes you have to be firm with the tire shop guys. (and tell them how to do it) "It's a side car wheel, not a motorcycle wheel." "Just toss it on the rim clamp machine and it will mount up fine."

I do see your point about the convenience, but also keep in mind that you don't have to do it as often. Once for every 3-5 time periods you're doing it now with the PR2s. You might want to go back to the beginning of this thread and check out the pictures of when I mounted the first one for testing fit with a friends help.

 

[user 213]

A friend just sent me this. Asked me if I would switch back to a moto tire because of it. I do not think so. The wet handling of the CT seems to be better to me,the way I ride, than it was with a moto tire.

New tire good for 40,000 KM

It will be interesting to see what sizes they offer it in. And what kind of reviews it gets. Oh, and the price! 25k miles is certainly better than <10k miles, but if they want $500 for the tire, it's not going to make much of an impact to us. If it's priced comparable to current tires, it's a value and a viable option.

 

[alchemy]

When I had my General Exclaim mounted, I took it to my local bike shop (not a chain or big 4). He said sure he'd put it on. When I went to pick it up I asked him how it went- fine except for the last 2 inches were a pain. It only took him slightly longer than a bike tire.

BTW- he mounts by hand, no changer and he is probably #160 soaking wet

General Exclaim UHP now with 14k, very flickable running 32psi, for me it's a keeper

 

[RaYzerman19]

Fred, I had similar issues mounting the Exalto. Couldn't do it on my Harbor Fright changer, had to wrassle it on the floor with two of us, knees on it and a couple of spoons. Once it's on, it's on. Next question, how to get it off when it's worn out? Gonna have the recipro saw handy........ someday in 2013 maybe.

 

[LowAndSilent]

Sorry...just saw the PM and this point.

1) Never would have even thought of using spoons to mount this thing unless I was named "The Hulk". Mine was installed by a local moto dealer after I signed a waiver. They said they had absolutely no issues on a changer.

2) Yes, the Envigor does fit! Definitely doesn't look like it, but it works quite well.

3) It is pretty beefy nonetheless, so I found it easiest to put the centerstand on a 1/2 inch block of wood and also to remove the right exhaust can. That made throwing the tire back on really easy.

4) Love the CT. It got me out of a sticky (or shall I say, slippery) situation a few months ago when I went down a road I shouldn't have. Added footprint from the CT gave me the grip needed to get out. Conversely...if I was smart one, I wouldn't have gone down that road anyway. I'll go ahead and say that it's the sole reason I sliced cleanly through a fawn at 65 mph a month ago...couldn't have done that with a moto tire.

Installed at 17,300 miles in February...now up to 33,000 miles. So, 15,700 miles on the Envigor and it still has loads of tread left. Easily a 30-40k mile tire. I may post up a picture or two later.