Going to the Dark Side

[Larry33319]

Would this be considered a darksider?? :huh:

I personally think that would be just considered an idiot of massive proportions.

 

[ionbeam]

Would this be considered a darksider?? :huh:

I personally think that would be just considered an idiot of massive proportions.

That's just part of his problem, notice the battery booster and the battery cables?

 

[user 213]

I'd rather see the other side. Must have one heck of an offset for the tranny output or the wheel is offset so the chain can run strait. I think the dude just rode in for some ramen and couldn't get it re-started. Now he's having lunch while the shop next door tries to get it running again. Man, I wish I was that cool... NOT! :lol:

 

[LowAndSilent]

Initial impressions after a half hour test ride...and not form an overall opinion for several thousand miles, but wanted to capture my initial impressions...

So, how does it handle on dirt roads? :lol:

Dirt roads? Just fine.

Gravel roads? Pretty good. I've probably covered 10 or so miles of gravel on the Avid ENVigor, with 3-4 of those being pretty bad conditions that I shouldn't have had the FJR on anyway.

 

[TriggerT]

I road more on dirt and gravel this year with the CT on the back than I ever have in the past. I would say the CT is at least as good, if not better on both gravel and dirt than a cycle tire. In one instance of having to start up a very steep incline from a dead stop on a muddy road, I would be willing to bet I would have been stuck with a cycle tire, but the CT spun just slightly and then grabbed and allowed me to get going.

 

[Patriot]

I'm quite close...found a new Exalto for $150 (glad someone said to confirm it as a A/S Exalto), friend is making me a SS brake arm to the FAQ specs...a local one man shop will mount it after I sign a liability waiver...my car mechanic friend also would do so, but he's never done it before and his rim clamp machine has naked teeth on the jaws with no protective covers like the bike guy. The bike guy has a bubble/static balancer to accomplish that task.

So, I could do it real soon if I want to just take off the PR2 that now has 3250 on it out of my usual 12k+

Probably not a bad idea to take take the used PR2 and put it into the corner just in case I decide after 1000mi on the CT that I hate it.

dut dut dut dut dut dut dah !!!

 

[garyahouse]

IN the dirt:

The GPS routed me down some twin path "dirt" road one day when I was about 1200 miles from home. The further I went, the more I found myself in a forest and the road turned into a trail. Pretty soon I was deciding whether to try to go the last mile or turn around and go 4 miles back through all the sand. However, the path in front of my was like a sand pit, all sugar sand... and hills... and nobody around to help. I decided to trust the traction of my CT. The Exalto mowed through that stuff pretty well. Front tire was plowing something awful, and I looked like an octopus with my legs flailing everywhere to keep her upright, but I got through it just fine. Bike tire? If I didn't have the Exalto that day, I'd still be out there pushing that thing.

Gary

darksider #44

 

[RossKean]

Done!! Mounted a new Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S today.

First impressions with only 50 miles or so:

I noticed much the same as others have reported. Follows road imperfections more - especially at low speed. Ride was "busier" and took concious effort to keep from wandering within my lane at slower (i.e.40 mph) speeds. More effort to initiate a turn and more work to keep it leaned over in the turn. Smoother ride than the MC tire. Quite nice on the highway @ 70 mph.

Overall I would say, based on VERY limited experience, that this will be a worthwhile experiment for me. The cost saving, while important, is secondary to being able to plan a long trip without having to change tires on the road or having to change a partly used tire before a moderate length trip. I'm pretty sure that I will run this tire for 20-30,000 miles and change back to a MC tire for a final comparison. It is definitely less fun than a new MC tire but probably compares to one that is almost finished after too much slab riding.

Currently running about 33 psi. May have to play with that a bit.

Of course, the obligatory photo...

 

[Fred W]

Well... After my split tread earlier this week on the PR2, the darkside deed has now been done:

My son has been home for a couple of days and helped me muscle it on this morning. I also made some modifications to my home made tire mounting "stand" (old steel car rim) that made it easier to flex the tire on. This is a Yokohama Avid Envigor.

My reports on perceived handling differences to come...

And now, the deed has been undone.

Yep, that's right. I'm throwing in the towel. The compromise in handling is too much for me to give up for the potential upside (to me).

Today was the Covered Bridges ride, and my first real test of the Car Tire, except for prior short rides around my neighborhood. The Bridges ride is just a sedate paced ride through the New England country side that immediately showed me the biggest problem of running a CT on the back (to me).

We have all agreed that no matter which car tire you run there is a certain increase in steering effort, with some being worse than others. With a car tire you need to keep counter-steering pressure on the inside handle bar to stay leaned over in the corner. I believe that this is because as you ride up on the inside of the tire the contact patch moves inside of the centerline of the wheel. Regardless of the physics, it happens.

My big problem is that in New England, smooth road surfaces are far and few between. Which means that the suspension is always working hard while cornering. When I have constant pressure being applied to the bars and start humping bumps the front wheel weights and unweights which makes the steering fluctuate. This is very unsettling. Through the day I could sense the tire beginning to breakdown some, or maybe I was just becoming acclimated? But either way, at the end of the day's ride I pulled the bike into the garage and yanked that POS Car Tire off of the bike and slapped on a new PR2 (the one I got in the warranty claim for the split tire last week).

I have other issues with the car tire, such as when accelerating out of a corner (as I am wont to do in twisties) the tire squirms and slides, probably because it is still so new with very tall tread blocks. That might also be the particular tire I was running. I don't care. I didn't like it and my experiment is over.

Anyone want a Darksider trial kit? I'll send you a basically new tire (has ~ 400 miles on it) and a brake arm for the cost of shipping. Local pick up is free.

To you died in the wool Darksiders: Please do not take this as a personal attack of your choices. We all have different wants and needs. We make our own choices. I feel that I gave this a good shot and learned that this is DEFINITELY not for me.

PS - I'm getting so good at tire changes these days I had the CT off and the new PR2 on and balanced and back on the bike in a an hour flat. With no tire machine.

 

[beemerdons]

And now, the deed has been undone.

Yep, that's right. I'm throwing in the towel. The compromise in handling is too much for me to give up for the potential upside (to me).

To you died in the wool Darksiders: Please do not take this as a personal attack of your choices. We all have different wants and needs. We make our own choices. I feel that I gave this a good shot and learned that this is DEFINITELY not for me.

Brother Fred, you had better head for the hills for your safety as quickly as you can! These mad dog cat blood drinking car tire heretic fanatics will hunt you down and stone you to death; then they will burn your corpse at the stake.

DO NOT underestimate these morbid sicko perverted whack jobs! Perhaps the Federal Witness Program is an option for an exile. I have friends in the Irish Republican Army that can hide you out in County Donegal for a few months.

 

[Mr Bill]

Anyone want a Darksider trial kit? I'll send you a basically new tire (has ~ 400 miles on it) and a brake arm for the cost of shipping. Local pick up is free.

Hmmm let me think.

 

NO thanks!

I'll take the bus if I can't afford bike tires!

 

[beemerdons]

Anyone want a Darksider trial kit? I'll send you a basically new tire (has ~ 400 miles on it) and a brake arm for the cost of shipping. Local pick up is free.

Hmmm let me think.

 

NO thanks!

I'll take the bus if I can't afford bike tires!

Muy Peligro! Be very careful there my Friend Mr. Bill, do nothing whatsoever to antagonize these rabid car tire monsters. They are going to be beside themselves that Fred W has defected from their sordid cabal! Watch out for these heathens! They are going to be wanting revenge for Fred W turning Quisling on them, and they will not stop until they taste blood! jes' sayin' and nuff' said!

 

[RaYzerman19]

Having ridden a whole bunch of your roads this year, Fred, I hear you, but I handled them pretty darn well with the Exalto.... so, next time I'm over there, we'll swap bikes.. I'd also say my fully adjustable RaceTech rear shock helps a lot once you get it dialed in. I did not run the Exalto with the stocker, but I do appreciate what a good suspension can do to make the experience much more enjoyable, for a whole larger range of conditions. I do understand fully where you're coming from though, and wouldn't criticize your decision whatsoever. The Yoki may not have been the right tar.....

 

[Bustanut joker]

Fuk just what the lily liver'd naysayers wanted to hear.. I assure you all the cunts will now take this and run, even though Fred has posted just because it didn't work for him is no reason for others not to try it..

Fire away ass saks.. I'm outa commission fer who knows how long due to body parts failing again. Pretty sure the excessive turning force blew out me arm though.

 

[Mr Bill]

Watch out for these heathens! They are going to be wanting revenge for Fred W turning Quisling on them, and they will not stop until they taste blood! jes' sayin' and nuff' said!

I'm a Masshole and we all seem to have hoof in mouth disease here so I'm pretty used to loosing blood. I have a hard enough time finding motorcycle tires that work well and won't flex and I couldn't imagine spinning all that weight on my fjr.

 

Poor old FredW is a nice guy, he sure doesn't talk like a New Englander, so he is really going to get beat up over this one.

 

[garyahouse]

This is a Yokohama Avid Envigor.

And now, the deed has been undone.

Yep, that's right. I'm throwing in the towel. The compromise in handling is too much for me to give up for the potential upside (to me).

We have all agreed that no matter which car tire you run there is a certain increase in steering effort, with some being worse than others. With a car tire you need to keep counter-steering pressure on the inside handle bar to stay leaned over in the corner. I believe that this is because as you ride up on the inside of the tire the contact patch moves inside of the centerline of the wheel. Regardless of the physics, it happens.

My big problem is that in New England, smooth road surfaces are far and few between. Which means that the suspension is always working hard while cornering. When I have constant pressure being applied to the bars and start humping bumps the front wheel weights and unweights which makes the steering fluctuate. This is very unsettling.

I have other issues with the car tire, such as when accelerating out of a corner (as I am wont to do in twisties) the tire squirms and slides, probably because it is still so new with very tall tread blocks. That might also be the particular tire I was running. I don't care. I didn't like it and my experiment is over.

First off, Thanks Dub for the time you took to report on your experiment. I certainly agree with your comments about the physics of running these CT's. I've often thought that the off-center "effect" on steering effort you mentioned could be minimized by a tire with (1) different measurements or (2) flex characteristics. Measurements: a more rounded profile or a narrower tire would help. These tires are WIDE. Wider tires obviously have a more pronounced effect on steering effort. But this "effect" is also affected by the flex characteristics of the sidewall. Flex: the more the side wall flexes, the more the tire acts like it has a MT type radius rather than a more squared CT profile. Does that make sense? Imagine if they didn't flex at all. The "feel" would be insane. This is where the Exalto shines, apparently. I say "apparently" because I'm judging based on forum feedback as I've never tried another CT. To me, it feels planted when accelerating out of the twisties.

We differ here. You say the EnVigor has a very different feel than a MT when exiting turns. I'm sure that with YOUR bike on YOUR roads, and YOUR riding style and YOUR tire, the combination is just unacceptable as there's a huge difference. But to me, the Exalto feels "planted" coming out of turns. I keep wondering, is there a significant difference between the EnVigor and the Exalto? Maybe. Is it the tire... or perhaps, and just as likely in my opinion, the difference in our riding styles? There's no racing blood in me. There are no scratches on the bottom of my footpegs. I rarely go over 90 when I'm out on the slab. I might have a VERY different opinion if I rode on different terrain, or if I were a more aggressive (or skilled) rider.

However, there are, as you pointed out, a number of factors involved here, including where we ride, how we ride, and with what equipment. We've established, as a forum, that not all CT's are created equal and that worn (negative effect) or aftermarket (positive effect) shocks have quite an effect on what happens in the twisties.

Oh, and one last thing. This is Florida: a very different place than where you ride. The roads are smooth and flat and the curves are few and far between. Both here and out on the slab, the Exalto works like a dream for me.

However, your opinion is highly respected and much appreciated. I'm hoping that if the day comes that when we finally exhaust this thread, we'll have provided enough feedback, both pro and con, to help guide the next victim of our squabblings.

Once again, we prove that this is indeed, a never ending, (but not pointless)... recurring thread.

Gary

darksider #44

 

[beemerdons]

Fire away folks that can think straight.. I'm outa commission fer who knows how long due to being uglier than sin. Pretty sure my excessive masturbation blew out me arm though.

Fixed.

 

[Patriot]

Exalto on the way...ebay...$164.35 total...still have 13 more available :yahoo:

https://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330616381191&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

as soon as I read Fred didnt like darksiding, I placed my order

(I do wish his testing was on an exalto)

 

[user 213]

Well, lets see if I can address things in order of occurrence;

RossKean - Welcome to the Darkside, you have been added to the FAQ as DS #51, if you care.

FredW - Thanks for taking the time to discuss your impressions and the rides that gave you those impressions and formed your opinion. I had hoped you would have kept it on a bit longer, but I can understand your desire to return to the neutral handling of the MT. Hopefully someone will take you up on your generous offer and the now current PR won't repeat the issue of the previous one.

It has always been said that this is not for everyone. There is a period of building muscle, and muscle memory before a rider gets completely comfortable with the CT. It varies from rider to rider. After 5 weeks and 6600 miles on the Super Tenere, I got back on the FJR and rode 2400 miles in a long weekend, including a SS1K. And yes, I noticed all those things all over again. The increased turn in pressure, the need to constantly maintain pressure in turns and the extra work out my shoulders were getting, as well as the more minor aspects of handling quirks that have been discussed. However, long before the end of the weekend, I was completely comfortable with it again and back in the groove of CT riding.

One of the prime benefits of the CT has always been consistency. Unlike a MT, the CT handles the same from start to finish. Though the squirm FredW mentions may in fact be just new, tall tread blocks and tread design. Not having been there riding with him, I have no idea how hard he is pushing out of the corners. I'm a little curious about the stated sliding though, as I haven't seen or heard that from anyone before. Did you feel that the tire was sliding outside in the corners? Or spinning on the pavement? Could you elaborate more on that aspect please?

Mr Bill, (Oh Noooooooooooo!), BTDT with the bus, and it's easy to talk smack, but riding the bus for a month because you can't afford a tire, SUCKS! But hey, I'm sure your sister is a virgin too, so it's all good.

 

[user 213]

Hey OCfjr....... you ever gonna post up my new tire pics??? I got 20,000 ass on fire,peg scraping twistie riding on the Exalto......... and commuted 5 days aweek

great example to show..........

B

Been busy, and forgot, so thanks for the shove.

Eric

Exalto pics by FJRONAMISSION:

New & Old

Brand new

Used and abused w/20k miles

Worn corners