Did you feel that the tire was sliding outside in the corners? Or spinning on the pavement? Could you elaborate more on that aspect please?
I owe the community a more thorough explanation on my experiences. My prior post was made between two group ride days this weekend and I didn't really have enough time to collect and post all of my thoughts. I do that here.
I apologize in advance for the extreme length of the post, longer even than my normal forum regurgitation, but I want to get it all out there and then move along and be done with it (and then I can unsubscribe from this never ending thread
) I have a feeling that only people with a direct interest in Darksiding will be motivated to read through this diatribe. And I have a feeling that I will be unlikely to dissuade anyone that has already made up their mind on the issue. So be it.
To the others. Please feel free to skip over this long post, or give it a negative for excessive verbosity, or whatever you like...
The sliding / slipping sensation that I got was when acceleration briskly from a stop while also cornering somewhat hard. As an example, trying to accelerate away from a stop sign when entering a main road from a 90 degree side road intersection before the oncoming traffic arrives.
Disclaimer: Because of the extreme amount of steering input required at any higher pressure, I did have the tire aired down to just 28 lbs when this occurred. That was probably too low, and may have been the cause for the sliding/slipping. Even so, even if there was no slipping I just can't justify the compromises in the way the bike feels to me.
It also isn't about arm strength. I was not getting tired from the amount of steering effort, at least not consciously so. The worst part of the experience for me was the "bump steer" like effect on the front end of having to maintain such a firm, steady pressure and cornering over uneven road surfaces that we invariably have here. I have no doubt that I could have continued along with the CT, eventually become more used to it and gone ahead and worn it down to the nubbins.
I don't want to give the impression that the experience was
all bad for me. But in weighing the Pros and the Cons I just could not justify keeping it on there for a second longer (I'll explain why at the end).
Pros:
Improved straight line traction in all conditions. Easy to understand that.
Much improved ride comfort (softness). It really smooths out the sharp bumps, like concrete highway expansion joints.
Higher load rating: This could be especially important with a pillion and full bags on long trips. If one was ever considering pulling a trailer, I'd want to consider mounting a CT on the tow bike. FWIW - I would never consider towing a trailer myself. If I needed to take that much stuff, personally I'd just drive a car. Maybe a convertible...
Easier to "track stand" the bike at stop lights/signs. Putting a foot down becomes somewhat optional. (not really, but it feels a little like that)
And the biggies: Economy and Longevity, This have been expounded on to no end.
Cons:
Increased steering effort required. Regardless of the tire used, you will never reach the happy place where you turn into a turn and the bike goes around the corner on the line with no (or little) steering input. This was not all that bad on smooth turns. I felt pretty confident to lean hard so long as I could see all the way through a turn and knew there were no bumps or rips in the pavement on my line. But when the front end hit any irregularities, the weighting and un-weighting of the suspension caused the steering feedback to vary, which made the handlebars want to wobble under the varying pressure. It felt like bump steer, even though the mechanics are different.
Tendency to follow irregularities. Longitudinal cracks, rain grooves, expanded metal bridges. All tires do this to some extent. Having the big meat on the back end makes it more so. You just need to always be on your toes.
Tendency to "self steer" down hill. Similar to above, but more troublesome. The back roads in New England tend to have very heavy crowning. Probably helps them drain the winter snow melt. This means that to go straight down a road the left side of the CT will have more pressure on the road than the right. That wants to tilt the bike to the right, and if you let go of the bars it would steer off the right side of the road. You have to constantly steer toward the crown of the road just to go straight. Also, unlike in many southern states, they don't always cant the road to the turns. They often maintain the crown through the turns which means that you end up with much higher steering effort required to make left handers. Now thow in a few bumps from #1 above.
Considerably Heavier - Has an effect on the bike's suspension. Some folks say you need to beef up the rear suspension to handle a car tire. At 58 k miles, I still have the stock rear shock and it works just fine (so far, knock on wood). In fact ionbeam, who knows a thing or two about suspensions, and happens to find himself behind me pretty often, has remarked about how well my stock suspension is working when watching me over some typical New England roads (which is to say rough ones).
Worse fuel mileage - Yup. Although I have a very limited data-set to go on, I suggest that by running a big wide car tire at lowish pressures required for use on a bike will produce more rolling resistance, and will result in worse fuel mileage. At 28 psi it was quite appreciable on my bike. I got more than 10% worse mileage than my normal, which historically doesn't vary by more than 2 mpg (except when I'm following Dave in Kentucky!
).
More difficult to mount. Either doing it yourself or finding someone that will do it. I think I have the hang of it now, so could do it again more easily. So maybe not such a big negative.
Liability concerns - Whether well founded or not, there is a possibility, albeit remote, that by using a car tire not approved or intended for use on a motorcycle, that one could have legal issues in the event of "something bad" happening.
How all of the above weighs with me personally:
Longevity and Economy are the two biggest pros. Everything else is fluff, IMO.
I do not commute on my bike. I have a company car and, if I even had a commute, the company would not allow me to ride my bike. Some non-sense about increased liability during work hours. But I don't have commute, I work out of my home, so it's pretty much moot.
All of my motorcycle riding is strictly for pleasure. If I remove any of the pleasure of the ride, it's a bad deal for me.
I am a Candy Butt Rider (and proud of it). I do not make LD rides, or rallies. I see no pleasure in riding slab for endless hours to cover a given large amount of distance. I often spend all day in the saddle, only stopping for gas and to pee, and at the end of 10-12 hours I might have only covered 400-500 miles and have never touched an interstate. That is the kind of riding that I find
pleasurable. I do not understand the people that think LD rides are "fun", but I can appreciate that everybody has different likes and dislikes and they are certainly all equally valid. I'm amazed by some of these LD feats people talk of, not because I couldn't do it. I'm sure that I could, if I were motivated to. I'm amazed because I ask myself, why? :huh:
Economy
I buy my PR2's (might change to something else next time) online for ~$150 each on sale with free shipping. They are so easy to mount and balance it is trivial (when I am at home) and free. I am getting around 9k miles per rear, not as high as many other folks, because I wear out the sides of them.
A Michelin Exalto is $155 plus $20 shipping (I'd never encourage anyone to run the $120 Yokohama that I tried). It would probably last me the equivalent of three PR2's because I'd also wear out the sides of a CT first. I just don't ride in a straight line very often. It's back to that pleasure thing...
Need to upgrade suspension? Where is the economy of having to buy an aftermarket shock at ~$750-1000, which will from most accounts need to be rebuilt every 30-40 k miles when with motorcycle tires I can happily run the stock shock or somebody else's stock take-off when mine wears out. Again, this is me. I've heard lots of denigration of the stock FJR suspension, but apparently I am not a good enough rider to tell any better. I'm OK with that.
Front tires wearing faster. I can't prove this, but I have no doubt that with all of the required pushing around of the front end that the front tire life has to be reduced. How much? Not sure... but it has to eat into the economy equation somewhat.
The one thing that I really wish I could economically avoid is in having to take off a tire with a more than a thousand miles left on it, which represents 10% or more of the Fred W life of that tire, because we may be leaving on a 3-4 k miles road trip. I think a better slution for this Candy Butt rider is to get myself a second set of wheels.
In retrospect, I was really never a very good candidate for a car tire to begin with. I even voiced such thoughts early on in this very thread, but I didn't want to be one of those "nay-sayers" that shot down the practice out of hand without any first hand experience. I waited for someone up here in the NE to go darkside, to hopefully steal a ride. No such luck. But I also wanted to see just how tough it is to do it yourself.
So, now I've spilled all of my guts. There you have it all. You should be able to see how I can say so definitively that dark-siding is not for
me.
And also how I can't say that it is
not a bad idea for some others. Other people have other needs and other tolerances. So... ride on you darksiders. Be happy and enjoy your machines. Hopefully we'll share a ride somewhere down the road.
(PS - I have found a new home for the Yokohama tire, where it will be kept company by three of its siblings on a vehicle for which it was intended (on a car).
I'm very happy about that. I wouldn't feel very good having someone else try using that model tire on a bike, even though it has been done successfully before me. However, I do still have the darksider required brake strut bar available to anyone that wants it for the cost of shipping. PM me.
edited to say that the brake strut bar has been claimed.
