Going to the Dark Side

[Larry33319]

Damn, I wish you had said something to me at the EOM. I would have loved your feedback with my Exalto A/S. The turn in as you described was similar to what I had with my Yoke Advan plus 4. After about 150-200 miles I developed muscle memory and almost forgot about it until I rode my CBR. I think in a few hundred miles you will come to enjoy it. On dirt or wet roads especially, you will be quite surprised at how well it grips. The larger contact patch seriously comes into play under those conditions.

BTW, that box pressed cigar was most excellant down to the nub. Thanks again.

 

[kevins]

Maybe it was said but with 124 pages of posts, I'm not going to read all posts.

Why not go to the local road race and get for free (or maybe $20.00) all the race tire take-offs? The sides are worn and the center is mostly un-touched. After a few heat cycles of racing, the compound hardens and street milage is decent.

I know the sides are worn but with a car tire, you don't lean the bike over either.

 

[FJRay]

Maybe it was said but with 124 pages of posts, I'm not going to read all posts.

Why not go to the local road race and get for free (or maybe $20.00) all the race tire take-offs? The sides are worn and the center is mostly un-touched. After a few heat cycles of racing, the compound hardens and street milage is decent.

I know the sides are worn but with a car tire, you don't lean the bike over either.

I think you need to rethink about the lean over thing. Shouldn't be talking about things that you are clueless about. I have chased a few darksiders and they lean quite well.

 

[Larry33319]

There are quite a few Darksiders that drag their pegs quite regularly. The sidewalls flex and the contact patch is larger. NO, you are not riding on the sidewall. There was an epic run between a Darksider and moto rider out west at an owners meet and several people came away convinced that a CT with a good rider is every bit as good as a moto tire with a similar rider. Especially in twisties and tripple digit sweepers. Do your research and look at it with an open mind and you will be quite surprised at your "new" conclusions.

 

[RadioHowie]

....but with a car tire, you don't lean the bike over either.

Complete and utter bullshit statement!

 

[kevins]

Guess for me, I will take anyone through the corners on or off the track with a 'take-off' with worn sides vs a car tire.

Isn't the car tire thing to save money on buying tires? Just saying the take-offs are cheap/ free.

 

[kevins]

There are quite a few Darksiders that drag their pegs quite regularly. The sidewalls flex and the contact patch is larger. NO, you are not riding on the sidewall. There was an epic run between a Darksider and moto rider out west at an owners meet and several people came away convinced that a CT with a good rider is every bit as good as a moto tire with a similar rider. Especially in twisties and tripple digit sweepers. Do your research and look at it with an open mind and you will be quite surprised at your "new" conclusions.

When I go from a track like BIR that will add excessive wear in one spot of the tire and then go out for practice at another track, I feel it and adjust. That's maybe 1/8" max step in the tire doing that. Then again, maybe all the national/ world road racers are idiots and should be using a car tire. Hats off to you if that works for you but don't tell me the same person and bike will go just as fast with either tire.

 

[RadioHowie]

I've got to admit...kevins makes a lot of sense, when you factor in the relevance of running paper-thin race-bike take-offs on a 650+ pound motorcycle hauling 600 pounds of passengers and gear.

I'm gonna take that damn car tire off my bike right now and go get me some take-offs! Then I'll sign-up for kevins' "KeWl Kidz KluB."

 

[kevins]

I've got to admit...kevins makes a lot of sense, when you factor in the relevance of running paper-thin race-bike take-offs on a 650+ pound motorcycle hauling 600 pounds of passengers and gear.

I'm gonna take that damn car tire off my bike right now and go get me some take-offs! Then I'll sign-up for kevins' "KeWl Kidz KluB."

And maybe you need to look at what is considered a take-off. 90% center tread and 30-40% tread. After 4-5 heat cycles, the tire hardens. Go run what you want. I'll run what I want. I'm adding another viewpoint for those looking for cheap tires.

WTF, paper thin. Think about what you sound like

 

[ionbeam]

...Think about what you sound like

:haha: :lmaosmiley: :lol2:

Click on 'Howies avatar then click on Find My content, read a sampling and then rethink that statement

 

[wfooshee]

Once again the most vocal opposition comes from those who've never done it, 'cause they "know" it won't work, despite the evidence that it does.

And it's not just about economy, it's about mileage. "What's the difference?" you ask. If it lasts longer it's cheaper, if your take-offs are nearly free, that's pretty damn cheap, too, right? BUT . . . .

Can I get a 5,000-mile rally ride out of the take-offs? Doubt it. That comes in because one of the original objectives was to be able to complete certain rides without tire-shopping during the event. Not just cheap tires, but tires that run relatively forever. Maybe your take-offs are cheap, but how often do you have to keep changing them?

My own motive was similar, although I don't do the steady miles. What miles I can do are 90% highway, not scenic, and I was showing steel in the centers but still had the mold thingies on the sides. 200 bucks for 8000 miles on two inches just didn't work for me.

(And you do lean the bike over to turn, just as much as you do with a bike tire. Steering is defined by the front end geometry, not the rear. Lean angle and speed define the radius.)

 

[garyahouse]

Hey Fred,

Glad to see ya got her mounted up. Welcome to the darkside. The main reason I chose the Exalto (over other possible CT's) back in January was that the forum was saying that it had a much better feel... more like a regular MT. After I became darksider #44, it seemed that further forum comments continued to reinforce my decision. I can appreciate what you said about wanting to do as much evaluating as possible ASAP... while the memory of the "feel" of the MT is still fresh in your mind. I remember asking my self over and over the first few days on the Exalto... HOW IS IT DIFFERENT? HOW IS IT THE SAME? I reflected on the similarities in post # 1881 CLICKY and post #1925 CLICKY

But then again, I've got an Exalto, you've got an Avid EnVigor... I wonder if maybe that's the reason for the difference in our opinions???

Just for what it's worth.

Gary

darksider #44

 

[kevins]

Once again the most vocal opposition comes from those who've never done it, 'cause they "know" it won't work, despite the evidence that it does.

And it's not just about economy, it's about mileage. "What's the difference?" you ask. If it lasts longer it's cheaper, if you're take-offs are nearly free, that's pretty damn cheap, too, right? BUT . . . .

Can I get a 5,000-mile rally ride out of the take-offs? Doubt it. That comes in because one of the original objectives was to be able to complete certain rides without tire-shopping during the event. Not just cheap tires, but tires that run relatively forever. Maybe your take-offs are cheap, but how often do you have to keep changing them?

My own motive was similar, although I don't do the steady miles. What miles I can do are 90% highway, not scenic, and I was showing steel in the centers but still had the mold thingies on the sides. 200 bucks for 8000 miles on two inches just didn't work for me.

(And you do lean the bike over to turn, just as much as you do with a bike tire. Steering is defined by the front end geometry, not the rear. Lean angle and speed define the radius.)

And as I said earlier "I'm adding another viewpoint for those looking for cheap tires"

 

[user 213]

OK

I read the last half dozen pages and the first half dozen pages; including the FAQ. While the summary information is useful, it is out of date and I can't bear to read through 2500 posts of mostly crap interspersed with some solid information and real experience to see what would work the best for me. (Would be nice to have an updated FAQ that distills out some of the serious information in this epic post!)

What is the current Favorite? Michelin Exalto 205 50R17? or something else?

Recommended running pressure?

Expected life?

There is a poll on miles ridden and problems but no concensus on the questions I posed above - at least nowhere I could find it.

Sorry Ross, no one here to hold your hand, you have to read, think and decide for yourself. There is no favorite, only proven performers and tires currently in use. It's hard to compare tires directly when it takes 40k miles to wear one out.

If there is a specific aspect you think the FAQ should contain, please share your opinion. I don't see a service in telling people that one tire works best, because that is simply not known. There are several tires currently in use that work very well. Those tires are listed on the FAQ.

The Michellin Exalto A/S, (NOT the PE2) will give 40k of life. As will the Bridgestone Potenza 019G Grid. I can say, that between those two tires, the Exalto has easier turn in and is more "bike like".

@kevins - What is it you are trying to convince us of, exactly? Race take offs are unsuitable for street use for the very things you mention, they are too hard from excessive heat cycles. They offer less traction than a new moto tire. The same reason they are "take offs" on the track. A CT may not be your thing, but they offer far more traction on the street than the race take offs do. More traction than a moto tire in marginal conditions too. (sand on the road, tar snakes, gravel, wet, etc)

I offer to you that you shouldn't ride at the same pace on the street that you do on the track. This doesn't mean you have to ride slow on the street, but you still need traction for the ever changing and uncertain conditions of the street, even more so than the 32' one way road at the track. You can adjust to your tires on the track, in part because you know exactly what to expect on the next corner, and if its not what you expect, there is a corner worker there with a flag to let you know before you get there.

 

[user 213]

Initial impressions after a half hour test ride around town and short sprint down the interstate.

This is with the Avid EnVigor inflated to 32 psi.

People have said in the past that it requires a little extra steering effort. Kind of like when your rear MC tire squares off. This is a huge understatement, IMO. At least with this tire it requires a LOT of extra steering effort, for any kind of a turn, even small ones, and the input must be maintained all the way through the turn. I can definitely relate to what Bungie noted about the feel that he was pushing the front end around with the square tire in the back. With that much leverage being applied through the tires I wonder how much of the total available front tire traction is being used up just holding the bike on line? I also wonder how much added stiction there will be in the suspension with that kind of torque being applied to the forks. The high steering effort during cornering does not instill confidence, at least not for me at this point.

I did not feel the left to right (or vice versa) transitions suffer very much at all. Others have commented negatively about that.

Having the big meat on the back inflated to such a relatively lower pressure gives the rear end a softer, cushioned feeling when hitting sharp transition bumps, like bridge expansion joints, etc. You still feel the normal "whack" to the front wheel but then the rear is softer.

The bike wants to follow the road surface a lot more. A crowned road will require constant bar pressure to maintain a straight line and not run off the low side. Likewise, turning on a crowned road will require more steering input to the left and less to the right. It also is affected more by road irregularities and grooves

I tested to see how much harder I could stomp the rear brake before the onset of ABS on a dry road. Interestingly I could actually hear the rear tire slipping in between ABS pulses. Doing the same thing on a MC tire only produced pulses in the pedal and no tire slipping noises. I would guess that the MC tire is also slipping, but with no audible feedback.

I plan on giving the tire a fair shake and not form an overall opinion for several thousand miles, but wanted to capture my initial impressions before I get so used to the thing that I forget what they were.

Nice post Fred, thanks for giving us your initial input.

Question, what front tire, and how many miles on it?

 

[RaYzerman19]

I've got 13000 miles on my Exalto A/S and have done just about any corner you want to take. I run 32 by myself, 34 with a passenger, and have played with many pressures. RaceTech rear shock has helped I'm sure to stabilize the bike as it is 3-way adjustable and took some time to dial it all in. I read all the comments on the other tires, and personally, I would do an Exalto again. Nothing heard has swayed me to try anything else, so I do think it is the tire of choice so far.

I have let a non-darksider or two try it, and while they have felt a slightly higher countersteering effort, I think it is the best so far. Both said it was not a negative experience, but they of course would have to have more saddle time. It's now just second nature for me, and I can't see going back to an MC tire given my riding habits. I'm expecting 30-40,000 miles out of it.

 

[Bustanut joker]

Yeah so there! :blum: I followed this old geezer from Stowe to his home and he never fell over once. And we didn't do Andy for slab miles!

I think me tire is gooder two.

 

[FJRONAMISSION]

Hey OCfjr....... you ever gonna post up my new tire pics??? I got 20,000 ass on fire,peg scraping twistie riding on the Exalto......... and commuted 5 days aweek

great example to show..........

B

 

[Patriot]

please discuss balancing...ah, tire on a sober rim...

 

[dcarver]

Yeah so there! :blum: I followed this old geezer from Stowe to his home and he never fell over once. And we didn't do Andy for slab miles!

I think me tire is gooder two.

Meh.