Handguns
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sparky3008
Finally got my collarbone fixed!!!
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I'll just get rid of the bags and have 1 facing front and the other rear. I am getting excited about this!! :assassin:
Lots of good ideas here.
One that was missed is the Springfield XD series (someone mentioned the 357 model). You can purchase a Service model (4" barrel) XD 40, XD 9, XD 357 and now the XD 45 for about $430 NEW, if you look around (including the internet). Ihave an XD 40 and I have purchased (for a bit over $125) a 9 mm aftermarket barrel for it. I can plink with inexpensive 9 mm all day, then stick in the 40 S&W barrel when I get to serious practicing.
I like Glock, Sig, H&K, Kimber and many others, but for the price, it is hard to match the XD models. I sold my Glock 36 and Glock 26 after using my XD 40 for a while. It points more naturally for me than do the Glocks. They make a compact XD (XD SC) in 40 S&W and 9 mm. It is not as compact as some of the other small handguns such as the Kahr PM9, but it is comfortable to shoot and as glitch-free as any handgun gets.
When I can't carry a full size gun like the service XD, I carry a KelTec P 3AT (380). I'm not thrilled with the 380 round, but it is better than having nothing - and better than a 22 LR or 32. The KelTec literally just pops into my pocket without a trace (in a pocket holster).
If I am wearing pleated pants, I stick an S&W 642 Airlight, loaded with 38 +p in my pocket, and it is a $330 gun new. The Keltec runs about $225.
On my FJR or KLR, there likely is a Kahr MK9 all metal pistol hanging around nearby. That is an expensive gun new (over $600), but can be had used for about $450-500. Some don't like the 9 mm, but using the MK9, I can put two to the body and one to the head in a very short time (at 7 or 15 yds), and that will suffice for me. No handgun cartridge really is a man stopper, not the 9 mm, not the 40 S&W, not the 45 ACP (all propelling bullets at 800-1200 fps), but I can't carry a rifle shooting rounds at 2300 fps - very inconvenient - so handgun cartridges will have to do.
Ron
One that was missed is the Springfield XD series (someone mentioned the 357 model). You can purchase a Service model (4" barrel) XD 40, XD 9, XD 357 and now the XD 45 for about $430 NEW, if you look around (including the internet). Ihave an XD 40 and I have purchased (for a bit over $125) a 9 mm aftermarket barrel for it. I can plink with inexpensive 9 mm all day, then stick in the 40 S&W barrel when I get to serious practicing.
I like Glock, Sig, H&K, Kimber and many others, but for the price, it is hard to match the XD models. I sold my Glock 36 and Glock 26 after using my XD 40 for a while. It points more naturally for me than do the Glocks. They make a compact XD (XD SC) in 40 S&W and 9 mm. It is not as compact as some of the other small handguns such as the Kahr PM9, but it is comfortable to shoot and as glitch-free as any handgun gets.
When I can't carry a full size gun like the service XD, I carry a KelTec P 3AT (380). I'm not thrilled with the 380 round, but it is better than having nothing - and better than a 22 LR or 32. The KelTec literally just pops into my pocket without a trace (in a pocket holster).
If I am wearing pleated pants, I stick an S&W 642 Airlight, loaded with 38 +p in my pocket, and it is a $330 gun new. The Keltec runs about $225.
On my FJR or KLR, there likely is a Kahr MK9 all metal pistol hanging around nearby. That is an expensive gun new (over $600), but can be had used for about $450-500. Some don't like the 9 mm, but using the MK9, I can put two to the body and one to the head in a very short time (at 7 or 15 yds), and that will suffice for me. No handgun cartridge really is a man stopper, not the 9 mm, not the 40 S&W, not the 45 ACP (all propelling bullets at 800-1200 fps), but I can't carry a rifle shooting rounds at 2300 fps - very inconvenient - so handgun cartridges will have to do.
Ron
Groo
The Endless Font of Useless Knowledge...
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Stirred up a bunch of opinions on this one Randy. 
Your stated usage was a little light on details. The 92 is a good solid piece, though a bit bulky for concealed carry. Doesn't fit my hand well, but if it fits yours, all is good. Nothing wrong with 9mm. Lots more people have been killed with it than .45 acp. It's a little big for teaching someone new to handguns though.
The Sig 239 is a good piece and excellent for those who don't practice a lot. Safeties are solid and built in, hammer release is easy to use and safe. The .380 doesn't pack as much punch, but will do the job. Don't believe that 7 to 10 yards crap. Most violent encounters occur in 7 to 10 FEET. Farther away than that and you or they have time to get the hell out of dodge.
Nothing wrong with any of the polymer guns. The Sigma is in some ways a better choice than the Glock, as it's a true double action where the Glock is a single action striker based design. (They call it a "safe action") Bottom line on Glocks is that they are not designed to be carried with a round in the chamber, and never have been. Yes, people do it. No, it's not a good idea. It requres a lot of training to do strait finger draw correctly and repeatably w/o fogetting. The minimal safey of the trigger shoe on the Glock won't prevent an Accidental Discharge if someone has a finger on the trigger, even lightly. Wonderful quality firearm though and excellent for sporting/casual use. Better overall quality than the S&W polymer guns, IMHO.
If you want simple and effective, the revolver is hard to beat. For your stated price point, you could easily buy a SP-101 or it's larger brother the GP-100. Both .357, though 38 Special is offered too. Get the .357 and teach your girlfriend with the 38 special rounds. (Just in case you didn't know, the rounds are identical except for the length.) I would not recommend shooting 9 mm from a .357/38 Sp. revolver with half or full moon clips. The brass will expand quite a bit in the larger chamber of the .357 and could potentially cause case head separation, though this is unlikley with new brass. They do sell the SP-101 in 9mm, but it's not an interchangeable round.
Cheaper still, take a look at S&W Model 10s in your local shops. Expect around $250. Good quality, simple to shoot and maintain and 38 Sp. is pretty cheap too. The object of personal defence is to deter. Any weapon will deter. Any firearm will kill too. Few people that are shot will really feel much like continuing to fight, they would much rather run away if they can. And it's not like the movies either. You can't tell how bad someone is hurt after the first shot. If it's life or death, keep shooting, center mass, until the threat is no longer present.
Take some classes on the legality of using deadly force if you're going to use this for personal defence. Most concealed carry permits will require this anyway, but it's important stuff to get your head around.
If you're not an experienced shooter, the larger calibers will be more difficult to master. Not impossible certainly, just require more practice, more ammo and more time. Also more diffucult for smaller hands to deal with the recoil.
What ever you decide upon, it should feel good in the hand, point naturally and be something you will take the time to learn how to use safely. High stress moments are not the time to try and remember how to use the safety on a pistol you haven't shot much.
Hope that helps.
Your stated usage was a little light on details. The 92 is a good solid piece, though a bit bulky for concealed carry. Doesn't fit my hand well, but if it fits yours, all is good. Nothing wrong with 9mm. Lots more people have been killed with it than .45 acp. It's a little big for teaching someone new to handguns though.
The Sig 239 is a good piece and excellent for those who don't practice a lot. Safeties are solid and built in, hammer release is easy to use and safe. The .380 doesn't pack as much punch, but will do the job. Don't believe that 7 to 10 yards crap. Most violent encounters occur in 7 to 10 FEET. Farther away than that and you or they have time to get the hell out of dodge.
Nothing wrong with any of the polymer guns. The Sigma is in some ways a better choice than the Glock, as it's a true double action where the Glock is a single action striker based design. (They call it a "safe action") Bottom line on Glocks is that they are not designed to be carried with a round in the chamber, and never have been. Yes, people do it. No, it's not a good idea. It requres a lot of training to do strait finger draw correctly and repeatably w/o fogetting. The minimal safey of the trigger shoe on the Glock won't prevent an Accidental Discharge if someone has a finger on the trigger, even lightly. Wonderful quality firearm though and excellent for sporting/casual use. Better overall quality than the S&W polymer guns, IMHO.
If you want simple and effective, the revolver is hard to beat. For your stated price point, you could easily buy a SP-101 or it's larger brother the GP-100. Both .357, though 38 Special is offered too. Get the .357 and teach your girlfriend with the 38 special rounds. (Just in case you didn't know, the rounds are identical except for the length.) I would not recommend shooting 9 mm from a .357/38 Sp. revolver with half or full moon clips. The brass will expand quite a bit in the larger chamber of the .357 and could potentially cause case head separation, though this is unlikley with new brass. They do sell the SP-101 in 9mm, but it's not an interchangeable round.
Cheaper still, take a look at S&W Model 10s in your local shops. Expect around $250. Good quality, simple to shoot and maintain and 38 Sp. is pretty cheap too. The object of personal defence is to deter. Any weapon will deter. Any firearm will kill too. Few people that are shot will really feel much like continuing to fight, they would much rather run away if they can. And it's not like the movies either. You can't tell how bad someone is hurt after the first shot. If it's life or death, keep shooting, center mass, until the threat is no longer present.
Take some classes on the legality of using deadly force if you're going to use this for personal defence. Most concealed carry permits will require this anyway, but it's important stuff to get your head around.
If you're not an experienced shooter, the larger calibers will be more difficult to master. Not impossible certainly, just require more practice, more ammo and more time. Also more diffucult for smaller hands to deal with the recoil.
What ever you decide upon, it should feel good in the hand, point naturally and be something you will take the time to learn how to use safely. High stress moments are not the time to try and remember how to use the safety on a pistol you haven't shot much.
Hope that helps.
Don't make your plans around it. Expert court testimony has shown repeatedly that anything within 21 feet can be considered GRAPPLING distance. A determined attacker can close that distance in 2 or 3 strides (a second or two).
NC_Yank
Well-known member
Sig is good however I dont know of any testing by Sig where upon they can brag about putting over 100,000 rounds through a barrel without a jam.............as far as I know, only H&K and Glock have bragging rights to that. My CCW was a PPK with hand loaded Gold Dots........knowing that any projectile coming out of the barrel would be head shots only.
In regards to testing...........our PD came down to 3 choices.
H&K (too high in price and of course H&K knows they have a great product and dont have to come off price)
Glock (like most departments, too many officers dont realize the best safety is suppose to be between their ears.......)
Beretta (piece of crap that any criminal can dismantle in less then 1.5 seconds................cheap price)
They went with the Beretta.....it started rusting in less then 6 months.
I personally stayed with the H&K.
NC
Woodstock
Well-known member
Fortunate then, that it doesn't take 100,000 rounds before I hit my target. I can usually hit the paper plate in only 10 or 20 thousand.
Tueller Drill
Groo
The Endless Font of Useless Knowledge...
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Woodstock
Well-known member
We had the Tueller "drilled" into us during training. It's amazing how short a distance 20ft is.
Ari Rankum
NAFO Karting Champion, 2012
DucatiSSsp
Well-known member
My vote for a plinking auto is a Glock 9mm longslide. 9mm are more enjoyable to shoot than .40's & .45's & cheaper to boot.
I shoot better with my Ruger SP101(larger Hogue grips) .357 loaded with .38's or +p's than my Glock 23 .40
I also have a Ruger .22 6" stainless slabside barrel with contoured wood grips....talk about a tackdriver!
Autos are fun to shoot, but if you want to be more accurate, I would go for a revolver with a .357 with 5" -
6" barrell and shoot .38's
All this coming from a guy who on occasion carries and goes to the range 5-6 times a year.
I keep my sp101 handy in the house for emergnc.....just point and shoot.
Lots of info here...stick with mine and you'll be fine! :yahoo:
Cheers,
Bryce
shuswaper
Well-known member
Jeezuz Kayrist...is this not the stupidist goddamned post on this website?! This is a motorcycle site (as in FJR) for crying out loud! :assassin:
sparky3008
Finally got my collarbone fixed!!!
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Randy
Well-known member
Instead of giving an off-the-cuff '**** off' response, I'll just say that I originally put this in the off-topic section. One of the mods moved it here. Here's an idea...why don't you copy your post above and post it in every thread in the Completely Off-Topic Discussion section that doesn't have anything to do with motorcycles.
evil_henchman
Well-known member
And cry out loud you did
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Groo
The Endless Font of Useless Knowledge...
Woodstock
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