No more Zumo 660, no more Garmin

[sapest]

While it sounds like you have made up your mind to banish Garmin, before you spend any $$, call them. Two yrs ago my 665 stopped working, (power button just stopped moving) and Garmin (in Canada mind you) to my very great surprise offered a free refurbished replacement unit, and they pd the shipping as well. My unit was at least 4 yrs out of warranty.

Good luck with whatever you purchase. Maybe Santa is listening in.

-Steve

Did you buy one or more lottery tickets the same day? 'Cause you hit the jackpot big time.
I try to be polite and cooperative when calling tech support lines. "Get more flies with honey than vinegar" and all that. Garmin support has generally been decent to work with, if clueless or unwilling to see a point. Garmin Explorer and Basecamp started crashing at the same time. Right after an update. After describing the problem and emailing screen grabs of the error message, the response was almost literally "your computer is broken. Take it to a tech store to fix it". Let's see, two different brands of laptops running two different versions of Windows - Win7 and Win10, and they crash exactly the same way. Gee, could it be the software? A month or two later Garmin pushed an update and... surprise! everything worked again. Mercifully, I've repressed the memories of other encounters with Garmin support.

For anyone trying to revive a GPS receiver with mechanical (not firmware) problems, try Palm Dr. Although the site is aimed at Palm devices (why????), they do repairs on GPS'. My 660's power switch stopped working and the battery repeatedly tried to escape the case when opening the case to use the update cable. Two weeks after receipt I had a healthy 660 at a good price.

My experience with Garmin hardware issues, and Garmin software support are polar opposites.

I gave up on Garmin software 'support' yrs ago.

+1 on Palm Dr.

-Steve

 

[RossKean]

I try to be polite and cooperative when calling tech support lines. "Get more flies with honey than vinegar" and all that. Garmin support has generally been decent to work with, if clueless or unwilling to see a point. Garmin Explorer and Basecamp started crashing at the same time. Right after an update. After describing the problem and emailing screen grabs of the error message, the response was almost literally "your computer is broken. Take it to a tech store to fix it". Let's see, two different brands of laptops running two different versions of Windows - Win7 and Win10, and they crash exactly the same way. Gee, could it be the software? A month or two later Garmin pushed an update and... surprise! everything worked again. Mercifully, I've repressed the memories of other encounters with Garmin support.

I learned to avoid being an early adopter of Garmin software/firmware updates (even mapsets) a long time ago. Pretty cautious about software updates of any sort.

 

[ElectricFJR]

The 660 is only marginally harder to remove. Gotta find the little pushbutton thingie and then... bye bye. And no way to lock the mount, unlike the 550.

You can get a lock for your Garmin 660. See www.kradlelock.com.

I have one for my 665LM and it works great.

 

[kiwimike]

FJR Pilot, I have had quite a number of Garmin GPS over the years, I have always bought the Zumo (read top of the line - expensive) for my motorcycle use and I have had a series of problems. The first one died while I was trying to update it after registering it, another died shortly into it's miserable life, both were replaced by Garmin with refurbished units and both of those units gave me problems. Why should a brand spanking new GPS be replaced with a refurbished unit? WTF?

My more recent unit a 660 (refurbished unit) has been giving me the same problem as you - will lock up on startup or just go dead and the only way to get it going again is to use another battery (I have 3 of them) and replace the batt.

Finally, vowed I would replace the 660 with anything but a Garmin, checked forums and found that both Tom Tom and Magellan got bad reviews for help from the manufacturer so it does seem that Garmin are likely the best of a bad bunch.

My next move being wary of paying close to a $1000 for a Zumo, I bought a refurbished Nuvi 2589LMT for a very reasonable price and used it on a 3 day ride, it worked very well, did all I had hoped for and more, beautiful bright display, but - it also died, a battery problem I suspect. Garmin replaced it but while waiting for that I got a 2689LMT for a great price and that I am very pleased with it. Now I have 2 Garmins, okay, one for the car and the other for the bike. I would recommended both these GPS, I do like the 6" display better but otherwise virtually no difference.

There are a few cons, you must have gloves off to use the touch screen, no way around it, theses car units are NOT even remotely waterproof so you MUST put them away before you get into rain. Other than that they are a great buy if you can still find them. Especially like the fact that lifetime maps are included, big saving over time.

One other problem that I am still investigating is both these units have quit sometimes and even though I bought Garmin's special cable to hard wire the unit to the battery ( I wired it to my Fuzeblock) it will just quit and need to be restarted. Solved this by using the cigarette lighter plug/wire as the power source, plugged directly into the cig-lighter in the small lockable box top left hand on my 2007 FJR and no more problems, so far anyway. Going to investigate and see if I can figure out the problem.

Was a bit of a pain getting a tidy installation but not overly difficult or time consuming, but that is another story.

I have had extensive experience experience using GPS in aircraft and motorcycles over the years so feel free to contact me if you have questions that I may be able to assist with.

 

[AdamK]

I've been using Garmin products since '01. I have 18 years of trips, waypoints and future roads I want to ride entered into Basecamp. I've digitized all of the Destination Highways books into Basecamp and refer to them and my past trips when creating my rides. I'd really miss this resource if I moved to something else. I suppose I could keep using it and export gpx files to another product, but I just wouldn't be the same.

Over the years I've suffered through support issues, hardware issues and Garmin EOLing of products which still work fine. I'm currently using a 595LM and am fairly happy with it. Just haven't found a good alternative with as many pluses going it's way.

 

[russperry]

I really suggest everyone consider using a phone for your navigation needs instead of these outrageously expensive motorcyle-centric units. I've been using Motion-X GPS on my iPhone for years and it is fantastic, especially if you're going to be going outside of cell range and will be venturing off road at all. You can download maps from the USGS and other sites that cover the entire world, and is so much more flexible. It proved its worth in Mexico several years ago - all the Garmin units in the group were showing a blue triangle on a blank screen, and my phone with Motion-X showed the road we were on and how many more miles we had to go to reach the highway. Even the guides in the group, who were relying on photocopies of a map out of a book had no idea where we were.

Anyone looking at spending $1000 for a Garmin should absolutely check out this link on ADVRider that redneckFJR posted previously that details the use of the Kyocera Duraforce Pro with a few very inexpensive apps.

https://advrider.com...-guide.1206076/

 

[RBEmerson]

All well and good until the phone goes dark and you forgot to download offline maps.

the guides in the group, who were relying on photocopies of a map out of a book had no idea where we were

Doesn't make them guides, does it. Map out of a book, no sense of orientation, no dead reckoning*... no wonder they were lost.

* The name comes from deduced reckoning. We've been going A fast for B minutes and traveling in C direction after leaving point D. We're pretty much here on the map.

 

[hppants]

I'm glad your specific issue was worked out. This whole discussion is as old as the Ford/Chevy/Dodge debate, and even older. They are all right and they are all wrong.

Personally, I gave up on Garmin years ago. I just CANNOT get used to their software. It's counterintuitive to me. Been a Tom Tom fan ever since. My current Tom Tom Rider is taking care of me just fine. Not without challenges, mind you. "User Error" is a term that definitely applies to Pants.

I still won't cross State lines without paper road maps of where I'm planning to go. For you yung whipper snappers out there, they actually make a map that is printed on a large sheet of paper, and folds down to nothing. It has all of the State (and many of the local) highways on it, along with attractions and points of interest. I've found a lot of cool stuff to see and ride to just by looking at the State highway map. For me, the 30,000 foot view is necessary. Those that know me know that in my "motorcycle closet", I've got a box of dozens of road maps in various states of wear, lined with highlighted routes all over this country.

When all else fails, I fall back on the riders' Mantra: "We can't ever be lost if we don't know where we are going!!"

 

[RBEmerson]

I agree with the idea of keeping paper maps handy, even while using any GPS device. In the sailing world, despite having all manner of electronic gizmos for position, speed, wind speed, etc., etc., the phrase is "we're just a battery failure away from the Age of Sail". Ditto for bikes, we're all a GPS failure away from the days of Lewis and Clark.

My wife wisely points out "you know a lot more by looking at this map, then looking at the GPS". While, being a guy, I'll never give in on direction finding, there is truth in her instance. But scale matters. Riding around South Tirol during an Edelweiss tour, and being in the company of two other riders, we became utterly lost. A map showing a swath from France to Czechoslovakia was little help in finding a way to a meeting point, 10-15 km away. Scale matters.

In some regards, I get by with BaseCamp, Garmin Explorer, etc. I suppose it's a little like getting used to too firm saddle. Sooner or later, sitting on a board gets old, and it's time to find something better. Which is the start of this thread.

Two bits of topic drift...

@hppants How is the business of TT's "worldwide maps" handled??? I have tried to find out whether I can install any map set (e.g., Europe or some part of it) for free or is it "pay to play"? The docs are unclear, the ad copy is unclear, and TT's pages are unclear on this point. Ditto for traffic info. While not a high priority item, if it's offered, might as well use it. If it's free - well, included in the purchase price of a Rider 550.

@hppants I enjoyed recently passing through "La Fayette" (if I get the Cajun accent right), and particularly a stop at Vermilion Village. Gumbo, with file powder, done right etouffes done right, etc. yummy etc.Lucky you!

 

[08FJR4ME]

I am still chugging away with my zumo 660. Been running fine since 2008. Its been through severe cold and monsoons without a hickup.

No compaints,

Dave

 

[mcatrophy]

...@hppants How is the business of TT's "worldwide maps" handled??? I have tried to find out whether I can install any map set (e.g., Europe or some part of it) for free or is it "pay to play"? The docs are unclear, the ad copy is unclear, and TT's pages are unclear on this point. Ditto for traffic info. While not a high priority item, if it's offered, might as well use it. If it's free - well, included in the purchase price of a Rider 550...

To answer your question, you can download any map on demand with no extra payment, just a WiFi or computer connection to the internet. Obviously the same with updates.

I don't know whether traffic information is stored on the device (not used it enough in anger). It appears on the map display as if by magic whilst in WiFi range.

 

[hppants]

I'm afraid I cannot write intelligently regarding downloading maps from anywhere except north America. However, I sincerely hope one day to rectify that. In the meantime, as our friend eludes, the process is very easy. Routes go better with the T/T software Tyre

But more importantly, I'm disappointed that you didn't reach out to when coming to visit my neck of the woods. It would have been my pleasure to host you, or at least show you some of our sights and food. BTW - the gumbo at Vermilionville is average at best. I've had a good run of rider visitors lately, as evident by a ride report recently posted:

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/175442-warmth-from-california-and-florida/

Next time, perhaps...

 

[RBEmerson]

...

@hppants How is the business of TT's "worldwide maps" handled??? I have tried to find out whether I can install any map set (e.g., Europe or some part of it) for free or is it "pay to play"? The docs are unclear, the ad copy is unclear, and TT's pages are unclear on this point. Ditto for traffic info. While not a high priority item, if it's offered, might as well use it. If it's free - well, included in the purchase price of a Rider 550...

To answer your question, you can download any map on demand with no extra payment, just a WiFi or computer connection to the internet. Obviously the same with updates.
I don't know whether traffic information is stored on the device (not used it enough in anger). It appears on the map display as if by magic whilst in WiFi range.

Repetitiously and redundantly... maps are free, traffic local appears by magic when using a phone and WiFi. Have I got that right?

Onward... if I've read something in TT-land correctly, while an SD chip is a good thing, it's only good for maps or for routes and tracks. The explanation is that each class of thing (map or tracks) needs the SD formatted differently. Gee, even Garmin isn't that silly. Anyway... the question is: can two map sets live comfortably in internal memory? If so, the SD becomes the route&track device (the notion of 128Gb for this use seems a bit extreme). Or, once again, am I confused and/or mistaken (refer to .sig for details)?

 

[RBEmerson]

I'm afraid I cannot write intelligently regarding downloading maps from anywhere except north America. However, I sincerely hope one day to rectify that. In the meantime, as our friend eludes, the process is very easy. Routes go better with the T/T software Tyre
But more importantly, I'm disappointed that you didn't reach out to when coming to visit my neck of the woods. It would have been my pleasure to host you, or at least show you some of our sights and food. BTW - the gumbo at Vermilionville is average at best. I've had a good run of rider visitors lately, as evident by a ride report recently posted:

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/175442-warmth-from-california-and-florida/

Next time, perhaps...

I need to re-examine Tyre. I looked at it "way back when" and passed on it. But times change...

Mea culpa about not saying howdy. We stayed one night at Acadiana Campground and pressed on from there, via I10 and I35, to Austin. Agreed the Vermillionville gumbo was only "not too bad", but it beat more than I've sampled. No crawfish in Phila. PA but Gulf shrimp will do for my first batch of DIY gumbo. And, yes, I do have file powder. Beats okra IMHO.

Telling tales on us... so we looked up the campsite before leaving home. We wondered why on earth a place was named Aca-diana. Who the heck is Diana? Ohhhhh... make that Acadian-a and the light goes on. Dimly. Very slowly. [/ bangs head on wall ]

 

[mcatrophy]

...

@hppants How is the business of TT's "worldwide maps" handled??? I have tried to find out whether I can install any map set (e.g., Europe or some part of it) for free or is it "pay to play"? The docs are unclear, the ad copy is unclear, and TT's pages are unclear on this point. Ditto for traffic info. While not a high priority item, if it's offered, might as well use it. If it's free - well, included in the purchase price of a Rider 550...

To answer your question, you can download any map on demand with no extra payment, just a WiFi or computer connection to the internet. Obviously the same with updates.
I don't know whether traffic information is stored on the device (not used it enough in anger). It appears on the map display as if by magic whilst in WiFi range.

Repetitiously and redundantly... maps are free, traffic local appears by magic when using a phone and WiFi. Have I got that right?

Onward... if I've read something in TT-land correctly, while an SD chip is a good thing, it's only good for maps or for routes and tracks. The explanation is that each class of thing (map or tracks) needs the SD formatted differently. Gee, even Garmin isn't that silly. Anyway... the question is: can two map sets live comfortably in internal memory? If so, the SD becomes the route&track device (the notion of 128Gb for this use seems a bit extreme). Or, once again, am I confused and/or mistaken (refer to .sig for details)?

No need for phone if you have your house Wifi with internet access (or, presumably a hotel's WiFi, though my past experience of these is of slow or even intermittent internet connection - maybe that's the type of hotel I frequent). If you do need a different map whilst on the road, and your phone has data service, you can use it as a WiFi hotspot to download maps etc.

You can have as many maps as you want in the internal memory (subject to size limitations), select them as needed from the menu. I tested this for my own peace of mind, not that I am likely to need any maps other than Europe.

As far as I am aware, the SD card is used to transfer routes or maps, it isn't used on-the-fly. I agree about the inconvenience of different formats for the two, though my IT expert (my son) tells me there are technical reasons for this, though I do think it's stupid. If you need to carry extra maps with you, I suppose you'd keep them on suitably formatted SD cards, and if you needed to transfer routes whilst on the road, you'd keep an SD card for that purpose. Inserting and removing the SD card is a fiddly process, you wouldn't want to do it with cold hands in wet, blustery conditions, though I can't see why you would need to. I've not tried to transfer maps (don't think I'll ever need to). I have transferred tracks using the card, though I have some issues with their mechanisms (I am still learning the thing).

 

[AdamK]

I agree with the idea of keeping paper maps handy, even while using any GPS device.

Agreed. I always have my Rand McNally Large Scale Road Atlas in the bottom of my topbox. haven't had to use it due to any gps failures to date. (knocking on wood).

The thing I like about Basecamp is the ability to display previous trips and other resource maps on top of my current trip route. It's like using an advanced CAD package with reference layers I can turn off and on. I can rubber band the current route/trip as desired. Load the route into the gps and I'm good to go! Rarely ever stop to figure out where I am or where I'm going next. Just follow the prompts and ride!

 

[RBEmerson]

I think I'm down to having to live with maps and SD's in real time to understand the fine points of the answer(s).

Basecamp displays the followed route and particulars about average speed moving, over average speed, distance covered, etc., etc.This is very helpful for a number of reason past "where was it we was at".

Basecamp sometimes(!) needs coercion to put the rubber band in the right place. Add steering points (term??), which are essentially invisible, transient (not recorded in the database) waypoints. They can be rendered visible (creates prompt about approaching 34th & Vine), but still transient. The result is a route the goes where intended even if a set of visible, permanent waypoints doesn't create the desired route. And all of that is well and good but...

My 660 essentially scrapped all of my planning and sent me in directions that either missed desired stops or sent me to places that were completely and utterly insane. IIRC details are listed above. Why this happened remains a mystery, But it's the tipping point for moving on from the 660.

 

[AdamK]

I think I'm down to having to live with maps and SD's in real time to understand the fine points of the answer(s).
Basecamp displays the followed route and particulars about average speed moving, over average speed, distance covered, etc., etc.This is very helpful for a number of reason past "where was it we was at".

Basecamp sometimes(!) needs coercion to put the rubber band in the right place. Add steering points (term??), which are essentially invisible, transient (not recorded in the database) waypoints. They can be rendered visible (creates prompt about approaching 34th & Vine), but still transient. The result is a route the goes where intended even if a set of visible, permanent waypoints doesn't create the desired route. And all of that is well and good but...

My 660 essentially scrapped all of my planning and sent me in directions that either missed desired stops or sent me to places that were completely and utterly insane. IIRC details are listed above. Why this happened remains a mystery, But it's the tipping point for moving on from the 660.

The term is "shaping/via points". If you rubber band a section of a route and force it through and intersection of two roads along the route you want, Basecamp will create an unannounced "shaping point/via point" and force the route through it. If you just pick a spot along a road you typically get an announced waypoint. And if you miss the road slightly you are told to make a right turn into the weeds to get to that point.

I also had a 660. At some point I bitched to Garmin about these routing "anomalies" and they told me to stop using Mapsource and switch to Basecamp. I did this with some success. Then at some point things went south again. When I contacted support they told me the 660 was no longer compatible with Basecamp and to go back to using Mapsource. WTF!? This was some of the BS I was mentioning in an earlier post when dealing with Garmin.

So I bought the 595LM and things have been much better. But the new units now "recalculate" routes when they are transferred into the gps. I long for the old days when routes created in their software simply loaded into the gps and you were taken down the intended path.

Every once and a while I'll have a route spontaneously recalculate as I am riding even through I have the gps set to prompted recalcs. At that point I can no longer trust the route calculated by the unit and typically cancel and reload the route mid-trip. It then takes me along the intended path as long as there are no additional, spontaneous recalcs.

Like I said, Garmin has their issues but I haven't found a better product yet.

 

[RBEmerson]

Say what?!? A Garmin support person said the 660 is incompatible with Basecamp?!? OMG.

The recomputing shows up on the 660, too. I also have the problem with spontaneous attempts to recalculate. In the video below, check out the start of Grimselpass and, around 1:15, trying to get the GPS to shut up and not recalculate the route. For the those with staying power, the process repeats. A lot. In this setting my plan was to use the 660 started in the right direction and then show what was coming down the road. I set the display to the 800' scale which gave time to prep for yet another hairpin. That's my 660, not a BMW Nav(some Roman numeral). Fits the mount in the K1600 but ignores the "One ring to bind them all" control.

 

[Niehart]

RBEmerson, to say I'm jealous as hell is probably an understatement.