Powerband very different after minor mechanical work

[dannymax]

https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo247/danu3247/FJR%20cam%20timing/100_2388.jpg

https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo247/danu3247/FJR%20cam%20timing/100_2389.jpg

https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo247/danu3247/FJR%20cam%20timing/100_2392.jpg

https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo247/danu3247/FJR%20cam%20timing/100_2398.jpg

The blue tape is pointing to the timing mark....what do you think?

 

[wheatonFJR]

The blue tape is pointing to the timing mark....what do you think?

 

[olsonm3915]

You can just see the actual timing marks on the cams if you look between the frame and the cam sprockets, and lining those up with the top of the cylinder head will give you a more accurate indication that the cams are where they are supposed to be when the crank is at TDC than using the little holes in the cams.

You only really need to look at one of the two timing marks on either cam, I've circled the locations.

 

[wmadoty]

I am sorry for you dude. You paid good money to get that job done and it was not done right. Good luck trying to get your money back. Sad that you have to pay the guy to do the job, take the bike back several times because it is not right, and have to fix it yourself. This dealer was trying everything to convince you that the tech did not screw up.

I worked on cars for several years and I have made this mistake. I know how easy it is to make. I like to think I am very careful when doing this type of work. I have never given a customer crap when they brought the car back in saying it did not run right. Just check the marks, see you screwed up, and try setting speed records fixing it the second time. Don't put it on a dino and try to convince the customer it is running right.

 

[wmadoty]

I think I would double check the valves while I had it apart. Who knows, maybe this guy can't use a feeler gauge either.

 

[dannymax]

You can just see the actual timing marks on the cams if you look between the frame and the cam sprockets, and lining those up with the top of the cylinder head will give you a more accurate indication that the cams are where they are supposed to be when the crank is at TDC than using the little holes in the cams.

You only really need to look at one of the two timing marks on either cam, I've circled the locations.

I can see the rear mark on the rear (intake) cam sprocket, it's perfectly aligned with the top of the head. It's hard to see anything on the front cam, there looks to be marks there also but it's pretty tight.

I'm thinking if the intake cam timing marks line up perfectly, the crank sprocket should line up too....even if the exhaust cam is off (which I don't think it is)

Is that correct?

 

[carlson_mn]

Definitely double check the clearance. Obviously he at least changed some shims considering he loosened the CCT, but I would double check only takes a few minutes. It's easy for that thing to skip a tooth on the bottom, gravity pulls the chain down and even with it zip tied up top, it skipped a tooth on me down below when I re-engaged the CCT. They should give you your money back, you could have done the whole job yourself at this point minus the price of shims...

And in photobucket click on the 'image code' box by each photo and they will show up here in the forum without the need for a link or any clicking.

 

[olsonm3915]

I can see the rear mark on the rear (intake) cam sprocket, it's perfectly aligned with the top of the head. It's hard to see anything on the front cam, there looks to be marks there also but it's pretty tight.
I'm thinking if the intake cam timing marks line up perfectly, the crank sprocket should line up too....even if the exhaust cam is off (which I don't think it is)

Is that correct?

It's likely that the two cams are still in time with each other, you can put a dental mirror up next to the exhaust cam to check, but if the intake is lined up and the crank isn't, you know you have to fix it no matter what, and when you do that you will have to verify the position of both cams to be SURE it's right.

Unlike the guy at the shop who charged you for screwing up your bike.

And yes, by all means, check the valve clearances yourself before putting it back together. Now that you've gotten as far as you have, you can see why there really wasn't any reason to have someone else do this job. Taking the cams out isn't a big deal once you've gotten this far, either so if you find any clearances that aren't right, figure out what shims you need and go back to the dealership and ask for your money back and the right shims to fix the clearances. They screwed up and should not charge you for their mistake.

 

[dannymax]

WheatonFJR....How did you get the pics to show and I only got the links? (Actually, I was proud of myself for even getting the links!! :yahoo: )

Yeah, it's kind of disappointing...especially now that it's obvious I could have done the job quicker, and obviously better....with the help you guys offer!

But it will work out ok, these guys aren't fly by nights, they're argueably the best V Max engine builders in the country, they'll stand behind their work, they have a big rep to defend here! Plus cough up some coin for gas....AND another free dyno...that seems fair, don't you think?

 

[dannymax]

I can see the rear mark on the rear (intake) cam sprocket, it's perfectly aligned with the top of the head. It's hard to see anything on the front cam, there looks to be marks there also but it's pretty tight.
I'm thinking if the intake cam timing marks line up perfectly, the crank sprocket should line up too....even if the exhaust cam is off (which I don't think it is)

Is that correct?

It's likely that the two cams are still in time with each other, you can put a dental mirror up next to the exhaust cam to check, but if the intake is lined up and the crank isn't, you know you have to fix it no matter what, and when you do that you will have to verify the position of both cams to be SURE it's right. Unlike the guy at the shop who charged you for screwing up your bike.

And yes, by all means, check the valve clearances yourself before putting it back together. Now that you've gotten as far as you have, you can see why there really wasn't any reason to have someone else do this job. Taking the cams out isn't a big deal once you've gotten this far, either so if you find any clearances that aren't right, figure out what shims you need and go back to the dealership and ask for your money back and the right shims to fix the clearances. They screwed up and should not charge you for their mistake.

Thanks....this is what I was trying to say! In fact I have a dentist app't. tomorrow, while he has his back turned......... :glare:

 

[wheatonFJR]

<hijack/sidetrack>

WheatonFJR....How did you get the pics to show and I only got the links? (Actually, I was proud of myself for even getting the links!! :yahoo: )

Danny, hit reply to my post above (with the pictures) and you will see extra "code" that was not in your post.

All I did was hit the "insert image" button...and paste your HTTP text into the window that pops up (after hitting the "insert image" button).

This board function inserts the code that you see before and after the HTTP text...this board then shows the image because of that code text.

<hijack/sidetrack off>

 

[BkrK12]

So, how does one fix this problem? How do you move it back the tooth it skipped?

 

[Peter Murray]

Right on looks just like the photo suggesting one tooth off,

Good work, dodged a bullet.

 

[dannymax]

<hijack/sidetrack>

WheatonFJR....How did you get the pics to show and I only got the links? (Actually, I was proud of myself for even getting the links!! :yahoo: )

Danny, hit reply to my post above (with the pictures) and you will see extra "code" that was not in your post.

All I did was hit the "insert image" button...and paste your HTTP text into the window that pops up (after hitting the "insert image" button).

This board function inserts the code that you see before and after the HTTP text...this board then shows the image because of that code text.

<hijack/sidetrack off>

<H/J Sidetrack...ON>

I see the secret code Wheaton....Thanks!

<H/J Sidetrack....OFF>

 

[dannymax]

Right on looks just like the photo suggesting one tooth off,

Good work, dodged a bullet.

Going to look into that right now Peter....I'm guessing it will involve de-tensioning the CCT alowing the chain to sag and backing off the crank till the timing mark lines up with the case seam.

 

[carlson_mn]

^ correct... I undid my cams and moved them together to create a bit more slack to help move the chain on the bottom. Not sure if there will be enough slack just by loosening the CCT but there may be, you'll have to let us know. It's important to torque them to the right values, 99in/lbs or 10Nm.

 

[wmadoty]

Be careful not to let the crank move much with the cams still bolted down. While I am sure you can move it more than a tooth before you hit the valves, I don't think it would be a lot more than a tooth. I learned this the hard way when I was younger on an XS1100 Special. Had to replace four valves and I did not feel a lot of resistance. I am not trying to scare you. I am just advising caution.

 

[dannymax]

Be careful not to let the crank move much with the cams still bolted down. While I am sure you can move it more than a tooth before you hit the valves, I don't think it would be a lot more than a tooth. I learned this the hard way when I was younger on an XS1100 Special. Had to replace four valves and I did not feel a lot of resistance. I am not trying to scare you. I am just advising caution.

Now there's a coincidence....I did the same exact thing with an XS750, two valves if I remember correctly and no, I didn't feel much resistence either, was actually surprised to find the valves were bent.

Thanks for the reminder, a little caution is a good thing.

 

[dannymax]

Just getting ready to time the cams properly and I discover the CCT (blue dot upgraded) was installed with the blue dot down. Yamafitter's 'CCT Lesson's Learned' post on Apr. '11 states the blue dot should be facing up.

Is this critical enough to warrant removal and repositioning?

All I need now is to find out they didn't do a proper job with valve lash and my whole $500 was a waste of friggin' money!

My normal good nature being stressed here!! <_<

Update: My mistake, I was looking farther down the barrel of the CCT, the blue dot is back on the bolt flange....and is in the proper orientation.

OK, back to the timing job.

 

[olsonm3915]

Gonna be tough to adjust cam timing without removing the CCT.