Shorai battery

[ionbeam]

Is this just a US thing ? all three of my gen 1 FJRs have OEM Yamaha heated grips with intelligent controller

The Gen I OEM heated grips world wide shutdown when battery voltage drops below 13.0 volts. The controller uses a 'voltage comparator' to do the shutdown. One leg is referenced to a fixed 13.0 volts and the other leg monitors battery voltage. When voltage drops below the fixed reference it shuts off the controller.

Many people choked on the cost of the Gen I OEM grips so they put on something like heat tapes for 30% or less of the price of OEM, however the less expensive heat controllers did not have auto shutdown.

 

[Phugedaboudet]

I figured out why I flattened mine.

I have one of those Gorilla motorcycle alarm with pager units, installed on unswitched power. I don't arm it during the winter, but it still has drain. That with sitting for weeks and temps into the low 30's was enough to do the deed.

D'OH!

that alarm's coming out this spring, I expect LOL

But I'm not too far from Shorai's offices. I called them and was told it may be possible to salvage the battery but no one's tested to see if and how capacity is affected. The guy suggested I bring it directly in to save postage and turn around time, and that even though it's over a year old, I might be able to get some credit towards a replacement. Since the FJR is usually my primary commuter, I'd feel better with a replacement even if I gotta pay full replacement-don't want it tanking in November because I damaged it last year. Either way, won't hurt to try.

 

[SkooterG]

I thought the grips were on a switched circuit??

Expounding on what Sir Alan said......

Heated grips didn't come on Gen I FJRs. Most people add non-OEM heated grips. So I am assuming Gary added non-OEM grips and foolishly wired them without a relay so that they only will be able to work with the ignition 'on'.

Is this just a US thing ? all three of my gen 1 FJRs have OEM Yamaha heated grips with intelligent controller

Just to be CLEAR. I was talking about NON-OEM heated grips.

 

[garyahouse]

Out again this morning to start the bike. It dropped NOT to 34, but to 41 last night. Weather man needs to get a real job. I began my starting ritual: pretty much just like before. When I attempted to start the bike, the voltage would drop into some pretty low numbers (like 8.5 or so), but then it slowly rose back up to 12.4 or so after I let off the starter... over the course of perhaps 20 seconds. On the second attempt to start the bike, with perhaps 20 or 30 seconds in between each attempt, the voltage recovered, it crept back up to 12.5, the third: up to 12.6, the third, a little higher, and so on until it reached about 12.8 on the 6th attempt. That was when it started. As before, each time I tried to start the bike, it failed to do so, but the battery was waking up.

Watching the voyage slowly creep back up after each attempt to start the bike taught me something about these batteries. While I'm standing there watching the voltage creep back up, 11.8, 11.9, 12.0, 12.1 and so on, I notice that the higher the voltage goes, the longer it takes to "get" there. When the battery reaches a point where voltage doesn't seem to want to creep any higher (at about 20-30 seconds after each attempt to start) I go ahead and hit the starter again. No use waiting any longer if the voltage isn't going to go any higher, I'm thinking.

Gary

darksider #44

 

[mcatrophy]

... No use waiting any longer if the voltage isn't going to go any higher, I'm thinking.
Gary

darksider #44

Maybe not. All you are doing is warming up the battery each time you hit the starter, then letting it cool again during the 30 second wait.

Try a 10 second gap, ignore the voltage rise. Maybe you'll get going sooner.

Or, maybe not.

 

[LAF]

Sorry but I can not even think of what a starting ritual like this is doing to your starter and any other "lectrics in the path.

Just not ready for prime time in any application/location if you must do all this to start your bike. Especially at a price point where you could have two batteries for the price of one of theirs.

I would love it if it worked but damn guys how long you gonna play with this before you forehead is mush from banging it against a wall? .

 

[Chuck35]

I still think a warming blanket around the battery would be the ticket. Load the battery and use the energy to warm the case

 

[mcatrophy]

I still think a warming blanket around the battery would be the ticket. Load the battery and use the energy to warm the case

Best idea yet. It'll also help fill all that extra space round the battery.

 

[littlefish]

I still think a warming blanket around the battery would be the ticket. Load the battery and use the energy to warm the case

x2 on this idea!

Gary,

Maybe one of these?

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11289

OR

a pair of grip heater elements might do the trick, one on each side of the battery. You wouldn't have to mess around with dropping the voltage.

 

[garyahouse]

LAF: I hear ya---- Yer sayin' "How long..." I agree. The time frame is due in part to the fact that sometimes I gotta wait a couple weeks for one night when the temps drop around here. You spoke of the "starting ritual." Most of the time, I hit the starter and that battery cranks it up. It's got some serious cranking amps... as long as the temps are above 50, so it's not an issue EXCEPT first thing in the morning a few days out of the year.

AS I SAID EARLIER, I KEPT THE BATTERY AND DID ALL THIS TESTING TO BE ABLE TO DOCUMENT IT ON THE FORUM FOR EVERYONE TO SEE WHAT THESE BATTERIES ARE, AND WHAT THEY ARE NOT.

I think we all could agree that this thread, thanks in part to many others who've posted up their results with this battery as well, has accomplished that.

Chuck35: I never heard of a warming blanket for a motorcycle (size) battery. I've seen 'em for car batteries though.

Little Fish: The link above is for a 5 volt (max) power source... the warming pads are designed for clothing applications (next to the skin) it seems, and don't develop much heat. However, the grip-warmer pad idea might have some merit.

I'll give it all some thought. From what I can tell, nobody's ever done it. Best price I'm finding is about 27 bucks w/ship/hand/etc at Amazon for these: CLICKY Uggh. Anybody got some used ones?

For what it's worth, I rarely have any issues with the cold. It doesn't get cold at night very often here. The bike stays pretty warm in the garage. Several times, I've parked it outside on purpose to test the battery to provide info for the forum.

Gary
darksider #44

 

[HotRodZilla]

So now...$180 for an unreliable battery AND $27 for warming pads. To save 10lbs...on 650 lb bike...That's not a race bike...That makes 123 horses at the rear wheel etc etc. No offense boys but am I the only one who thinks all the expense to save 10 measly lbs is stupid.

Newer is not always better, and a standard cheaper battery starts the bike reliably for years. Seems the only pros surrounding this battery are the weight and "it spins the bike faster..." when it works. Oh...and people seem very impressed with the included foam pads for a "custom" fit.

Gimme a break. These are beyond the testing phase. They're proven unreliable, and anyone that utilizes their bike where it is gonna get cold, should send the POS back, get a refund and buy a real battery.

 

[wheatonFJR]

I bet Boeing is wishing that lithium ion batteries were more reliable as well...

 

[littlefish]

So now...$180 for an unreliable battery AND $27 for warming pads. To save 10lbs...on 650 lb bike...That's not a race bike...That makes 123 horses at the rear wheel etc etc. No offense boys but am I the only one who thinks all the expense to save 10 measly lbs is stupid.
Newer is not always better, and a standard cheaper battery starts the bike reliably for years. Seems the only pros surrounding this battery are the weight and "it spins the bike faster..." when it works. Oh...and people seem very impressed with the included foam pads for a "custom" fit.

Gimme a break. These are beyond the testing phase. They're proven unreliable, and anyone that utilizes their bike where it is gonna get cold, should send the POS back, get a refund and buy a real battery.

I know it is winter and all, but I'm thinking a few folks either need to see their Dr. about a new Rx or get X'd, Y'd or Z'd.

I do stuff sometimes just to see what happens. Explore new places. Do new things. Ya know!

 

[wheatonFJR]

So now...$180 for an unreliable battery AND $27 for warming pads. To save 10lbs...on 650 lb bike...That's not a race bike...That makes 123 horses at the rear wheel etc etc. No offense boys but am I the only one who thinks all the expense to save 10 measly lbs is stupid.
Newer is not always better, and a standard cheaper battery starts the bike reliably for years. Seems the only pros surrounding this battery are the weight and "it spins the bike faster..." when it works. Oh...and people seem very impressed with the included foam pads for a "custom" fit.

Gimme a break. These are beyond the testing phase. They're proven unreliable, and anyone that utilizes their bike where it is gonna get cold, should send the POS back, get a refund and buy a real battery.

I know it is winter and all, but I'm thinking a few folks either need to see their Dr. about a new Rx or get X'd, Y'd or Z'd.

I do stuff sometimes just to see what happens. Explore new places. Do new things. Ya know!

We're happy for ya...in the meantime, Zilla was just making a point, a good one I think, based on the anecdotal data showing up at this place.

Don't be walking around thin skinned...he isn't hating on you or anyone else...well maybe Beemerdons based on his member title.

 

[garyahouse]

What ever thin skin I may have had disappeared the first day I stepped into an 8th grade classroom. All comments are appreciated.

However, concerning our grand experiment here, many are coming to conclusions.

Duhh.

Now who woulda ever thunk that might happen?

That was kinda the purpose in the first place.

Gary

 

[HotRodZilla]

OMFG...Multiple conclusions from multiple people? Who'd a thunk it Gary?

Believe it or not, I really appreciate the guys that have spent the.last two years being guinea pigs for these batteries. Without them, a lot more of us would probably be suffering. AND very few of my comments are directed towards them. I'm mostly talking to the guys that are still, somehow, on the fence.

AND as far as hurting people's delicate feelings, I guess I could say I'm sorry...But that would be a lie. Because I don't give a rat's what anyone's delicate feelings feel.

 

[RadioHowie]

*****!

Stick THAT in your "delicate feelings" and puff on it, AJ. :finger: :rofl:

 

[garyahouse]

Zilla, sorry to hear about your rat and his medical problems. Hope he feels better soon.

Howie, you ever gonna get that avatar repaired? Seems like it ran outa steam? Sorta like I feel most days. No wonder it takes me so long to get anything done out in the workshop!!

Gary

EDIT/one hour later/geez Howie, that was quick...

 

[SkooterG]

So now...$180 for an unreliable battery AND $27 for warming pads. To save 10lbs...on 650 lb bike...That's not a race bike...That makes 123 horses at the rear wheel etc etc. No offense boys but am I the only one who thinks all the expense to save 10 measly lbs is stupid.
Newer is not always better, and a standard cheaper battery starts the bike reliably for years. Seems the only pros surrounding this battery are the weight and "it spins the bike faster..." when it works. Oh...and people seem very impressed with the included foam pads for a "custom" fit.

Gimme a break. These are beyond the testing phase. They're proven unreliable, and anyone that utilizes their bike where it is gonna get cold, should send the POS back, get a refund and buy a real battery.

I know it is winter and all, but I'm thinking a few folks either need to see their Dr. about a new Rx or get X'd, Y'd or Z'd.

I do stuff sometimes just to see what happens. Explore new places. Do new things. Ya know!

We're happy for ya...in the meantime, Zilla was just making a point, a good one I think, based on the anecdotal data showing up at this place.

Don't be walking around thin skinned...he isn't hating on you or anyone else...well maybe Beemerdons based on his member title.

Yeah, well, I thought littlefish made a pretty good point too. And was not being thin skinned at all. WTF Wheatie??? Zilla is an ***. Period. He should be more like me - the warm, fuzzy, forum guy.

 

[LAF]

Gary I understand why you are doing this and it is appeciated from those of us who had considered and wanted one of these.

My girl and I had dinner with my riding partner and his wife lastnight and he informed me his 21 CCA from his BMW 1200RT is on it's way back to Shorai. Now he has ran it a year and in the 7500 mile trip this past summer it never balked or blinked. It just died this PA Winter. He has a 2 year on it so they said send it back. He has no clue if it is going to be pro-rated or what.

Now we been in the teens for weeks so it does stand to reason it was going to bite the bullet. I mean he has a gravel and dirt lane for a mile and a half before he sees blacktop so winter riding means no snow to get out and it has snowed here.

As I said Gary not knocking you and I apperciate the documantation, Shorai should to.

I am concerened at what you may be doing to your bike but I guess I am pretty much gun shy with the lectrics of the FJR as it is.