Test Ride Nightmare!! Could use some advice please...

[Tailwalk]

No. The bike is legally a used bike. Call Yamaha back and they will confirm it. I've seen this in the automobile industry.

I called yamaha customer service again in this regard and this is what they told me.

The bike is a NEW motorcycle never been sold to anyone and this bike was sold to the dealer directly from yamaha as-is no warranty. The customer service rep told me this is not an unusual situation in an auction situation. Bikes are put up in auction to the dealers and priced based on this and other factors. I questioned this rep frontwards and backwards on this and he was sure of the facts in this case. I said to him "are you sure that this bike was sold NEW to this dealer without any intermediary ownership or problems and he said no, it was a NEW bike sold to the dealer without a warranty".

Also, keep in mind that it appears that I can in fact purchase a 2 year YES agreement on this bike in this situation, so I can still have yamaha corp protection and service on this bike. Obviously, if I decide I want to buy the bike I would be negotiating this into the deal as well.

Thanks for your input.....these are the facts as best as I can determine them.

David

 

[LAroo]

Adventure Motorsports in Washington on their dealer website lists a 2008 AE for $11,999.

https://www.adventuremotorsports.net/showca...0&Type=1787

However their ad on Cycletrader lists a 2008 AE at $10,999.

https://www.cycletrader.com/find/listing/20...0-1300-90762456

Hope this helps. Good to see you are doing the right thing but agree the dealer should not be making a profit out of your misfortune.

LAroo

 

[happyPuppy]

Good to see you are doing the right thing but agree the dealer should not be making a profit out of your misfortune.
LAroo

+1 He is making MORE profit out of your get off.

 

[wfooshee]

The bike is priced way high.

It has no warranty.

You didn't know that when you test rode.

His "YES" warranty will be through him only, not nationwide, almost certainly.

How does any of this not clue you in that he's a sleaze??!!?!?

 

[jjsC6]

I think you should list the dealership's name so any prospective buyer can stay away from them. They obviously have deceitful practices. I can't imagine that you knew you were looking at a bike that carried absolutely no warranty before you signed the waiver and went for a test ride. This dealership is sleazy and anyone considering doing business them should be forewarned.

Before I went on the test I did not know there was no warranty on the bike.....I wasn't planning on purchasing that day, just wanted to do a test ride. I don't know why you think this dealer is sleazy based on what I know so far. But please explain why you feel that way....

Thanks

David

The fact that he didn't tell you that you were looking at a bike that carried no warranty is sleazy enough for me. Did he tell you that you were looking at an auction bike (which means you were looking at a USED bike)? The salesperson kept vital important information from you. If it were me and the dealer told me that he had a USED bike with no warranty, I would have turned around and walked out the door. In any event, you go back to him and tell him that he need to consider USED bike prices not NEW bike prices for comparison. NEW bikes have warranties while his do not. According to NADA, average retail for a used '08 FJR AE is between $9340 and $12285. NADA also assumes that there is remaining warranty. He's a sleaze bag.

I've bought so many new vehicles in my life that it's somewhat embarrassing. I've been to so many dealers, and test drove so many of them....

At the point of a test drive, it is very common to not having discussed specifics of a deal. At that point, most people are test driving to see if they have any interest in buying the vehicle regardless of price or other considerations. I think you are being way too hard on the dealer here. I realize a lot of folks take a "guilty until proven innocent" attitude towards dealers in general. I just don't see it here.

Honestly, given the history of dealers even willing to let someone do a test ride without a signed purchase agreement, this dealer actually sounds like a pretty good one to me.

 

[terp84alum]

The bike is not new as it relates to vehicles. It is a used bike in the eyes of Yamaha. Why is this so hard to understand? New bikes from Yamaha come with a warranty and the option to purchase an extended warranty. Auction bikes do not. It's really cut and dry. Why don't you call another dealer, motorcycle or automobile, and ask them if they sell any NEW vehicles "as is" with no warranty. I would bet you would get "no" for an answer.

 

[Scooper]

Oops I meant I own a 650cc BMW.....not 6500cc hah, hah!!
IMPORTANT UPDATES

Yamaha customer service said that when bikes are sold at auction, some are sold without warranties and some with. It just depends on the supply/demand, buyer etc.

I talked to the dealer at length today, he really seems like a reasonable nice guy who is not trying to screw me over.....we are just going to have to negotiate this out.

He confirmed that the bike does not have the 1 year manufacture's warranty but it is indeed a new bike purchased from yamaha. He said because there in no 1 year warranty existing on the bike that the option of purchasing a 4 year YES is not possible. BUT, he said that I can get a 2 year YES in this case, through him and he will charge me cost on this if I want to purchase the bike.

In addition, we clarified exactly what his bike purchase offer was.....his intial offer was $12,281. This includes setup, freight, $636 in repairs that he is doing at cost, bike ready to go out the door. Tax and license added brings it to $13,500. (I don't know what his cost for the 2 year YES would be yet, so that would be added to this)

I told him that I've been told that these bikes are selling in the low $10000 out the door with 1 year warranties. He said he was surprised by that and encouraged me to find any local dealer that could offer that sort of deal and get back to him. He told me that he believes he's getting pretty much the best possible deals on these bikes and doesn't see how others could do much better. He also said that if you look at the nation as a whole you will always find exceptional deals here and there depending on how desperate the dealer is or other possible undisclosed issued with the bike.

So if anyone can help me find local WA dealers that can offer better I would greatly appreciate it.

thanks

david

I agree with the other posters that the price is too high. I knew about the auction bikes not having warranties and all. That said this dealer got this bike at auction at a huge discount. No one knows how much but they would not have bought it otherwise. I would offer them $10,999 and they throw in the 2 year "YES". Be firm about this as they want to move it and I think they will give in. Later you can fix things up your self. Also I agree that you are doing the right thing but just don't get taken in the process.

Scooper

 

[Patriot]

just curious and trying to help here...how many indicated miles when you started the test ride...the fact you test rode the bike means it's a demo if >100 miles

 

[Lowcountry Joe]

There is no way on God's green Earth that a test rider is liable for anything. It's the dealer's risk to allow test rides, which is why nobody does them.
If his insurance doesn't allow test rides, too bad. It's still his risk. Consult an attorney. It's cheaper than the bike repair.

Damn right it's the dealers problem. Part of being in the business of selling bikes. From the sound of it, he sounds like a real piece of work. I'd laugh at him and walk away. From what you said, he is feeding you piles of it my brother. I hate it happened, but **** happens....and this dealer is trying to screw you good with lots of bad, bad info.

I'd tell the guy that I may be filing a lawsuit against his company for allowing me out on a defective bike, thus injuring myself and ruining my clothes.

And...lastly...get an A model with a clutch lever so you can control the bike better in slow-speed situations. The AE has been know to present slow speed control issues to new riders, and old as well. I am sure there will now have to be some AE owners pile on with rebuttals, but what would you expect?

Good luck with this matter. Don't let this guy buffalo you one inch.

 

[Scythian]

Tailwalk:Surely not a great situation, but one that IMHO can be worked out with the dealership.

My Thoughts:

1. Man up - this was your goof not the dealerships. I bet once the emotion wears off, it will be remembered that a heavy twist of throttle on a cold tire was the culprit. It appears you are trying to do the right thing here and I applaud that.

2. IMHO no lawyer is going to take a case like this unless he/she feels like doing community service. There is simply not enough $$ in this for a lawyer to become interested. But, why involve the legal system wth this?

3. You are being told to just "walk away" -sorry, I wasn't raised that way and am very surprised at some of those here advising you to do this. Just not the "right" thing to do in my mind.

Good Luck!

biknflyfisher

6. Make sure when you voluntarily bend over and get ass-raped by the dealer you don't ask for a reach around or tighten up your sphincter unfairly 'cuz at least you can walk away feeling like a "good guy" while blood and semen drip out of your ragged bunghole.

 

[The Flying Dutchman]

Agree completely with the above. The dealer has insurance, and will only be out his deductible . . . and perhaps higher premiums in the future, depending on his history. This dealer is screwing you over. He's going to get you to cover the cost of the repairs completely so he doesn't have to report this to his insurance company, AND he's trying to make you pay out the nose for a two year old "new" bike that doesn't even have a warranty.

Walk away. If you want to make yourself feel better, throw him $500 to cover or help defray his deductible, but don't let this guy take advantage of your guilt to soak you. These accidents happen, he knows it, but he's trying to use this situation to make a huge profit.

'Course the dealer's insurance company can still sue you for the money you caused them to have to pay out. You have ZERO negotiating power then. Ask the dealer if he's going to make you pay for the damages and then turn it into insurance for a double collection! You need to get a release from him if you pay ANYTHING>

Are you sure that there wasn't a problem with the bike? Low tire pressure? If so, it may be the dealer's fault.

New bike with no warranty?? That sounds like BS. Negotiate further and mention walking away. He ought to cut the price on the bike and throw in the YES Warranty.

 

[The Flying Dutchman]

PS were you looking to buy a new or a used bike? If new and it was represented that way you have an argument. You wouldn't have even been test driving it if they had told you it was used with no warranty.

 

[kawabeemer]

I think your dealer is handing you a pile of horse manure on the warranty. Normally, Yamaha has a full warranty on bike they put up for auction. The dealership I work for buys all of the Yamaha auction unita they can get for this reason. On the other hand, Kawasaki makes you buy a warranty for auction units.

 

[user 17635]

Just a thought - why is the warranty so important to you? How many people have actually had warranty repairs done on '08 FJRs? Granted I've only had mine for a few months, but My FZ1 before it was rock solid for 6 years. The factory warranty on the FZ1 wasn't worth anything because the bikes just go forever, and the odds of something going wrong in the first couple of years are very slim. I am guessing FJRs are of similar quality and reliability (isn't that why we're all here?).

A warranty is a bet that the bike will have problems. Sure it might pay 20:1 if something catastrophic happens, but how likely is it? Enough to bet $400 on it? I'm not saying all warranties are bad investments, I'm just saying it should be put into perspective and treated as the gamble it is. If you can overpay by $2000 for this bike, versus giving up $4000 and ending up with nothing, I don't think you should be completely turned off by the fact that it lacks a warranty. And if you negotiate a more reasonable price, then all the better, warranty or not.

Best of luck!

-Dan

 

[Scythian]

Channelling Bill Handel:

What?! You let them charge your credit card?! Call the card company right now and dispute it--you were pressured, you just wanted to get out of there; you were shook up from the accident and not in your right mind.

That liability agreement? Not worth the paper it was written on. Let 'em sue you. Times are tough--dealers don't have the kinda money to sue you for something they can repair and sell to the next poor sap.

Were you injured? Get to the hospital right now in terrible pain. Run up a big treatment bill including time off work. The bike wasn't set up right. The tire pressure was off. It had glitter and confetti from the showroom on the tires--counter sue them for injuries, if you can show damages, if they sue.

You're fine. You don't have to do anything: just make sure you respond if they sue you so's not to let them get a default judgement.

 

[sliderule]

If I may... As a rider of an 07 ae, with 28000+ miles in 2 yrs and my first mc by the way, it asks to be said that though the tires may have been cold, there may be something else to be considered as to the cause of the unexpected get off. BTW I'm glad to hear the injuries were worst to the pride than anything. At 5 mph the rpms could very well have been low enough that the clutch disengaged and twisting the of throttle may have reengaged the clutch much like popping the lever would do. This would have resulted in a burst rather than a hard roll-on. The power this bike contains can easily get away from you, ask me how I know, especially with inexperience with the e-clutch. You can learn to control the clutch and keep it engaged. They are known for getting the better of a rider used to having a lever. The dealer should have told you this before you left on your tr.

Also I agree with Maffud. As long as you get the PMs done everything SHOULD be good. Point out too that it wouldn't cost you $4k to have it shipped from the east coast.

Just my .02

 

[ultimateanswer]

Ok I guess I will chime in again...To defend whoever it was that said that the dealer is sleazy I will say this: For the four marques that my dealership represents, Yamaha, Honda, Victory/Polaris, and Hyosung, AND BY OKLAHOMA STATE LAW WITH COMPLIANCE WITH FEDERAL LAW, we as a dealer must state the warranty status of everything we sell when we "up" a prospective customer. Which means using language like, "This bike is sold in NEW condition with the manufacturer's warranty in place." or "This bike is sold as-is, where-is, how-is in compliance with OK state and federal consumer protection laws." RUN AWAY FROM THIS DEALER!!! FAST!! LIKE HE HAS THE ******* PLAGUE!!! I have been in the business for all of my working life. I can tell you this right now, he has developed the skills and the leverage he needs to muscle you into this sale if you keep running back to him. He has to carry insurance to cover HIS bikes in accordance with his dealer agreement with Yamaha!! I cannot stress this enough!! Also, if his salesman didn't go through the proper screening process to see what you had experience riding before he let you ride his "$13,000" bike then he is **** OUT OF LUCK!!!! I cannot stress this enough to my salesmen, if they only have experience riding 250cc Ninjas and they want to come in and joy ride on a Busa or ZX14 then tell them to go **** THEMSELVES!! This is exactly where you fall in TW! No offense but a 1298cc bike is not for someone who has less than 3-4 years of experience in riding larger displacement bikes. That would be 1000cc+ in displacement. EVEN, in the owner's manual and the promotional material we are given it states that the FJR1300A/AE are not for inexperienced riders and we are to steer them towards the FZR100 or the FZR600, depending on the experience level of that particular customer. I made the jump form a 250cc to a 1000cc bike when I turned 16...10 years ago, and I still have the scars to this day to prove what a ******* I was. I am lucky to be alive after that!!

I will reiterate what I said in my last post...LAWYER UP, MAN UP, GET READY FOR A LONG BATTLE, CIRCLE THE ******* WAGONS, CALL YOUR INSURANCE AGENCY AND TELL THEM TO BE PREPARED TO GET A CLAIM CONCERNING THIS AND THAT YOU WERE TEST DRIVING THEIR MOTORCYCLE, AND GET YOUR MONEY BACK FROM THE CREDIT CARD COMPANY ASAP!!! 21%+ will kill you on $4000!!

I am a DEALER!!! And I am giving you this advice because from what you have said thus far the dealer has not represented themselves in an honest, and respectable way. You cannot sell a 'new' Yamaha without a warranty. You can sell a factory demo, dealer demo, police demo, show demo bike on a limited basis but that has to be disclosed on the federally mandated "window" sticker.

If we aren't getting the entire story please fess up and let us know right now so that the community as a whole may better serve you. Otherwise follow the advice that so many of us have given you. DO NOT PAY FOR THIS BIKE OR ANY OF THE REPAIRS UNTIL YOU ARE ORDERED TO DO SO BY A COURT OF LAW!!

 

[Tailwalk]

If we aren't getting the entire story please fess up and let us know right now so that the community as a whole may better serve you.

Ahhhh......I don't know what you think I could possibly have to "fess" up to.....

 

[Hellfish]

Crappy situation. It could happen to anyone. In fact, it almost happened to me on my test ride. For what it's worth, here's what I think that I would do;

I would offer to pay the deductible as long as it was a reasonable amount and the dealer provided the paperwork as proof of the claim. Then I would walk away and feel like a complete POS for a while. When I was over feeling sorry for myself, I would go to another dealer and buy my FJR. Then I would get on it and ride it. LOTS!

Good luck!

 

[bramfrank]

I had a nice long post written up, but it went 'away'.

The short of it is that the dealer is overcharging for the bike (especially considering that there's no warranty) and possibly also for the repairs. The warranty he is offering can't possibly be YES and that is another problem.

More insidious is that you signed the credit card slip, something that you should NEVER do until you've spoken with a good lawyer (which itself is a problem). In the end, you will probably be held accountable for your signature.

If you have insurance that will provide some coverage I would let them pay out the money, covering the deductible from your pocket. You will not pay $3,000 more in premiums (and likely the insurance will get the cost of repairs down to something reasonable - or maybe they'll scrap the bike!! You can never tell - but that becomes NOT your problem). Then you can pay the dealer for the bike IF you want to buy it . . .

Morally the dealer OUGHT to take some of the responsiblity; They should have properly qualified you before agreeing to the ride. Selling bikes by letting clients wreck them is not a good sales tactic IMO. You never rode anything as large and heavy as the FJR and the auto clutch takes getting used to; You cranked the throttle (even if you don't believe you did - 'cranking' is the result of too much power for the situation) and the rear spun out on you because of all these factors. Even if there'd been mitigating circumstances (like oil on the road, which there wasn't because you'd have mentioned it and would have had recourse against the local entity responsible for road maintenance) they are most certainly covered; What if you'd been a bum with no credit card and no other assets?

You should not be on a bike this large and heavy without training.

Again - speak with a good lawyer and realise that it is easy to blow thousands of dollars dealing with the lawyer, making this all an exercise in futility.