Test Ride Nightmare!! Could use some advice please...

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Something not mentioned, if it was a new bike, the tires are also new, thus NOT scrubbed in and are slicker than a "broke in tire"..

Scott

 

[jjsC6]

Not that I expect many folks to care, but this is the last time I'm looking at this thread. Why? I'm getting nauseated by the number of people who think you can sign a contract but then not live up to what you signed. You think you can wreck someone elses bike and take ZERO responsibility for it. You think think the dealer is a crook because he want's to not lose money on your mistake. And you think they should magically be able to "qualify" your riding ability even though you have already produced a drivers license with a MC endorsement (that's what I've always had to do) and you tell them you currently own a bike.

Don't get me wrong, I think its ok for the OP to do some homework, and the dealer should be reasonable - but the OP has stated repeatedly that he thinks they are trying to work with him and be reasonable. But it's the tone of "hey, it's the dealers fault I wrecked their bike, and even though they have a deductible to cover and even though I signed a waiver saying I know I'm responsible if I wreck it, screw them - they should eat the damages".

 

[wfooshee]

Nobody said it was the dealer's fault, but the dealer was not up front with him initially about the status of the bike (new or used) and its warranty. Would he have even ridden it had he known it was not covered, and he was responsible for any repairs?

I would be interested in finding if there were some way to know if the dealer filed a claim on the bike, in addition to charging our guy the 4 grand. No assumptions, no statement that I believe it happened. but I would want to know if it did if that were my 4 grand!

Also, it's just not possible to sign away your rights. A waiver can say anything the dealer wants to put on a piece of paper, and anyone can sign it. But if any part of that waiver is actually in violation of statutes, then it doesn't apply. You can't write a contract that breaks the law.

THAT'S WHY OUR GUY NEEDS A LAWYER!!!!!

 

[08FJR4ME]

Not that I expect many folks to care, but this is the last time I'm looking at this thread. Why? I'm getting nauseated by the number of people who think you can sign a contract but then not live up to what you signed. You think you can wreck someone elses bike and take ZERO responsibility for it. You think think the dealer is a crook because he want's to not lose money on your mistake. And you think they should magically be able to "qualify" your riding ability even though you have already produced a drivers license with a MC endorsement (that's what I've always had to do) and you tell them you currently own a bike.
Don't get me wrong, I think its ok for the OP to do some homework, and the dealer should be reasonable - but the OP has stated repeatedly that he thinks they are trying to work with him and be reasonable. But it's the tone of "hey, it's the dealers fault I wrecked their bike, and even though they have a deductible to cover and even though I signed a waiver saying I know I'm responsible if I wreck it, screw them - they should eat the damages".

Naaaah, you'll be back to look again.

O.K. let me get this straight. If you were selling your feejr and some 20 year old showed up on his Yamaha TTR250 and wanted to test ride, you would say. "Sure go ahead, hears the Keys" Just sign this release. How in anyones right mind do you think that that's ethical.

Contract or no Contract the dealer has some responsibility. Now take this one step further and God forbid but what if TW had got run over and seriously hurt in this situation. Any jury would side against this dealer for negligence of not properly instructing the rider on the inherent dangers of this motorcycle compared to what he rode in on. This dealer would be out of business.

TW is one stand up guy and trying to take some responsibility for his actions and can be applauded. "BUT"

My problem is with the dealer. He has done everything wrong here.

1) He should have never let him test ride an AE version of this bike.

2) Failed to give any instructions on how to operate the FJR1300AE

3) Failed to warn about the horsepower and cold tires not being scrubbed in.

4) Forced him to charge 4K on his credit card and not get anything in return

5) Overcharging for repairs

6) Overcharging him for the actual value of the bike

7) Not divulging that this is an auction bike (technical used) without warranty.

TW is just being taken advantage of in this instance and though the dealer may be acting real nice and all he is screwing him over while being nice too. The lowest of the low in my opinion.

 

[FJRBluesman]

TW - Interesting posts again not familiar with WA state laws.

It is rather interesting that the dealer didn't tell you up front the status of the no warranty bike. He also should have partial liability IMO, just because he took the risk in letting you ride the bike. He shouldn't be totally risk or responsible free either, although that waiver may say otherwise, again no idea what it said, or what WA laws are. Maybe you both need to reach into your pockets, lick your wounds, and have it as a lesson learned.

Now I don't feel it's fair (correct me if I'm getting the wrong impression here) that the dealer should profit from this situation. He deserves a fair price for the bike, period. You deserve a fair market value also. I agree with others that the bike seems rather high in price. He shouldn't be making huge dollars on parts and labor plus big profit on a bike with no warranty. The bike IMHO should be discounted just because there is no warranty. Even though he says he'll warranty the bike for a 2 year YES, he's still taking the risk on his own that he'll make money and you won't have a warranty issue. He already stated Yammer won't cover a YES due to no warranty, so he must be assuming that liability, at a cost to you.

BTW - OTD (Out The Door) means just that, it includes tax, license set up, etc, it's the cost one paid riding the bike off the floor and out the door.

It's great you two are talking this thru, I think you can get there if you want to buy the bike. If you don't want the bike it's going to cost you something, in lawyers fees and or repairs. Again doing the work at your leisure with cheaper parts online, or by the dealer at a pre-agreed to cost may help.

BTW - I don't recall it being mentioned, is the bike rideable? Is it that bad that you couldn't ride it as is or with minor repairs?

Not that I expect many folks to care, but this is the last time I'm looking at this thread. Why? I'm getting nauseated by the number of people who think you can sign a contract but then not live up to what you signed. You think you can wreck someone elses bike and take ZERO responsibility for it. You think think the dealer is a crook because he want's to not lose money on your mistake. And you think they should magically be able to "qualify" your riding ability even though you have already produced a drivers license with a MC endorsement (that's what I've always had to do) and you tell them you currently own a bike.
Don't get me wrong, I think its ok for the OP to do some homework, and the dealer should be reasonable - but the OP has stated repeatedly that he thinks they are trying to work with him and be reasonable. But it's the tone of "hey, it's the dealers fault I wrecked their bike, and even though they have a deductible to cover and even though I signed a waiver saying I know I'm responsible if I wreck it, screw them - they should eat the damages".

Naaaah, you'll be back to look again.

O.K. let me get this straight. If you were selling your feejr and some 20 year old showed up on his Yamaha TTR250 and wanted to test ride, you would say. "Sure go ahead, hears the Keys" Just sign this release. How in anyones right mind do you think that that's ethical.

Contract or no Contract the dealer has some responsibility. Now take this one step further and God forbid but what if TW had got run over and seriously hurt in this situation. Any jury would side against this dealer for negligence of not properly instructing the rider on the inherent dangers of this motorcycle compared to what he rode in on. This dealer would be out of business.

TW is one stand up guy and trying to take some responsibility for his actions and can be applauded. "BUT"

My problem is with the dealer. He has done everything wrong here.

1) He should have never let him test ride an AE version of this bike.

2) Failed to give any instructions on how to operate the FJR1300AE

3) Failed to warn about the horsepower and cold tires not being scrubbed in.

4) Forced him to charge 4K on his credit card and not get anything in return

5) Overcharging for repairs

6) Overcharging him for the actual value of the bike

7) Not divulging that this is an auction bike (technical used) without warranty.

TW is just being taken advantage of in this instance and though the dealer may be acting real nice and all he is screwing him over while being nice too. The lowest of the low in my opinion.

Some good points here and like others have said in this case, a lawyer should be consulted and they need to understand every datail of the events.
Good luck.

 

[Scythian]

Not that I expect many folks to care, but this is the last time I'm looking at this thread. Why? I'm getting nauseated by the number of people who think you can sign a contract but then not live up to what you signed. You think you can wreck someone elses bike and take ZERO responsibility for it. You think think the dealer is a crook because he want's to not lose money on your mistake.

Cool: if I invite you over for a beer and you spill some on the carpet, man up and buy me a new carpet, couch and plasma TV--I shouldn't have to "lose money on your mistake".

 

[beemerdons]

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showforum=66 Tailwalk, have you sent out private messages to the other Pacific North Westerners in regards to track record and history of this dealer? I think that you are making a wise decision, without naming the dealer at this time on a public record forum. But you may want to send out PM's to your fellow Seattleites!

Here's what I'm leading up to: Personal inside knowledge of Seattle dealer may help you out in your negotiations with him!

For example, as a 10 year Officer in Arizona Beemers MOA Club #89: If this befell a BMW Test Rider, I could help out an individual dealing with John Cartwright, owner of Iron Horse BMW in Tucson; and I could help someone out with Scottsdale BMW owner Bob Parsons. I know these owners from buying bikes, parts, apparel and numerous other items over 2 decades.

On the other hand, I'd be of no use to you in dealing with Tom Mueller of Victory BMW: A shop well known for shady practices!

Niehart, sportsguy, ahchiu, Hudson, Panman and others may already have a rapport and a long term relationship built up with this Seattle dealer. Take advantage of this and PM these guys and see if this dealer is the type that can be reasoned with!

 

[johndaub]

At 5 mph the rpms could very well have been low enough that the clutch disengaged and twisting the of throttle may have reengaged the clutch much like popping the lever would do. This would have resulted in a burst rather than a hard roll-on. The power this bike contains can easily get away from you, ask me how I know, especially with inexperience with the e-clutch. You can learn to control the clutch and keep it engaged. They are known for getting the better of a rider used to having a lever.

My dealer on my AE test ride gave me some instruction on using the electronic clutch. I hope yours did. Having said that, it still was not enough instruction to understand what happens when the revs drop low. That took a few hundred miles to understand. I think that sliderule has a point that your eclutch may have disengaged and then trying to get on the trottle the revs went too high before the clutch reengaged.

 

[KtownFJR]

One thing that I would like to add is never contact your insurance agent about a incident unless you have decided to file a claim. In this case he may find out that his insurance rates are higher because this mishap even though a claim was not made. Insurance companies will use any excuse to raise your rates!

 

[v65]

I'll ask again, got pictures? I would like to see the $4000 damage done to this bike in a 5mph getoff. I'm guessing:

1) saddlebag

2) Mirror

3) Lower Fairing

4) Peg

5) Possible stator cover

6) Rim

List price on those parts would add up to a tidy sum, but not $4,000. I could install that stuff in an hour, so labor isn't much of an issue. Charging list for these parts would be underhanded IMO.

One more time, got pics or at least a list of parts?

 

[mikerider]

I don't know what the laws are in WA either but it seems that it's not unreasonable to assume that we are responsible for things we break. It's just common sense, instead of shifting blame to whoever else.

Anyway, I saw other posts saying that a new 08 can be had for 9k. Is it possible that you buy one and give it back to the dealer in exchange for the one that you crashed? At least it will end up costing you a lot less to own the same bike?

Hey guys,
Thanks so much for your input on this. To clarify some things; I did sign a waiver that specifically excluded them from liability for injuries to me or anyone else and I also remember reading something about me being responsible for repairs to the motorcycle. After we went over the damage report and he told me how much he wanted for the motorcycle I told him I couldn't make a decision about it right away. He said that was fine with him but that he'd need the $4000 to cover the repairs just in case I decided not to buy the motorcycle. I let them charge my credit card $4000 with the understanding that I would let him know by the end of next weekend whether or not I'm buying the bike. If I buy the bike he'd credit back the $4000 and we'd finance the purchased at 9.5% zero down. If I don't buy the bike he keeps the $4000.

All this being said I'm really not happy about there being no warranty on the bike (although he said for $389 he'd give me a 2 year YES plan). And obviously, I'm not happy that the bike is damaged goods right from the get-go if I purchased it. What I definitely don't want to have happen is me buying the bike for 12-13 something thousand and possibly having regrets at a later time(i.e., some unseen damage or extensive repairs at a later date). At the same time walking away from this and having to pay $4000 for a test ride from hell sure is hard to swallow.

FUN!

Thanks,

David

 

[cruiser]

You could hire a independant insurance appraiser to do a appraisal on the damage to the bike so you have a idea what the cost of repairs would be. I know we can do this in Alberta Canada you just have to pay the appraisers fee.( I have the Ae model and have been able to spin the rear tire switching from second to third )

 

[Dangerous Dave]

I am absolutely dumbfounded at the number of people who've spouted off in this thread, CLEARLY without reading what's already been said, and claiming to know the (WRONG) answer to questions that have already been answered. As they say, better to remain silent and have people think you a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.

TW, you sound to me like you're old enough to make your own decisions, and it sounds like you're doing a good job of listening to what people are saying, and sifting out the pearls from the poop. Keep doing just that. I hope you reach an equitable resolution to this.

 

[Tailwalk]

I am absolutely dumbfounded at the number of people who've spouted off in this thread, CLEARLY without reading what's already been said, and claiming to know the (WRONG) answer to questions that have already been answered. As they say, better to remain silent and have people think you a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.
TW, you sound to me like you're old enough to make your own decisions, and it sounds like you're doing a good job of listening to what people are saying, and sifting out the pearls from the poop. Keep doing just that. I hope you reach an equitable resolution to this.

Thank you Dave, though everybody is trying to help me out and offer advice, quite a few in the last few pages seem to have not read all of my posts pointing out the facts as I 've been able to determine them. Especially, in regard to where I stand legally on this (talked to 3 lawyers) and there all basically said the same thing to me.

Once again, I want to say I totally appreciate the support but please read everything I've written so as not to confuse the issues.

I apologize for not answering all the questions asked of me to this point. I'm trying to answer them in blocks rather than individually because it takes so much time and I'm already thinking about all this stuff too much as it is. In addition, when I'm answering questions I'm trying to give Facts to the best of my ability without guessing or accussation so as not have to take my foot out of my mouth later and that takes time.

Thanks again for all your inpurt and support

David

 

[Tailwalk]

I'll ask again, got pictures? I would like to see the $4000 damage done to this bike in a 5mph getoff. I'm guessing:1) saddlebag

2) Mirror

3) Lower Fairing

4) Peg

5) Possible stator cover

6) Rim

List price on those parts would add up to a tidy sum, but not $4,000. I could install that stuff in an hour, so labor isn't much of an issue. Charging list for these parts would be underhanded IMO.

One more time, got pics or at least a list of parts?

Hi v65, sorry I didn't get to your question sooner,

I don't have pictures yet, but I plan on getting them Thurs, Frid, or Sat. along with a copy of the waiver I signed. Incidently, I've also test ridden BMW motocycles and had to sign a waiver then as well....I'm going to find out what theirs says too.

Here's a list of the damaged parts (I visually saw each piece he was refering to):

Left handlebar

end, grip

holder damper

bolt, hex skt head

grip warmer

rearview mirror

upper cowling assy

fuel tank comp

visor side

body front lower

cover crankcase

gasket crankcase

side stand

bolt

main stand

muffler assay

I checked the prices with another dealer and my dealer's parts were all a couple bucks less, I also got a labor estimate which was 3.5 hours less than my dealer.

I also found out that there's typically a 30-40% markup on all the parts. All this information will be very helpful when I negotiate repairs if I don't buy the bike.

Also to clarify details of the accident, I slowed to about 5 mph before making the turn onto the onramp, I accelerated onto the onramp and into the turn and estimate I was traveling 10-20mph when the bike slid out.

Thanks

David

 

[Tailwalk]

Many people have mentioned the dealer should have told me about the warrany up front. The only thing I can say to that is, we weren't talking at all about me buying the bike or about any particulars about its origin prior to the testride. I wanted to test ride the bike, they made a copy of my license and I read the waiver and signed it.

The dealer did not ask me what my experience level was and he didn't give any special instructions about riding the bike. (This is one area where you can definitely argue that the dealer should have warned me about the new tires, power of the bike, basic operation etc, etc.)

That said, no other dealer that I've test ridden bikes with has asked me what my experience was. If he had asked, I would have said I've put about 20,000 miles on my f650 and have testridden the manual FJR and FJR AE before as well as the BMW K1300GT, R1200GS.

THanks all,

David

 

[Patriot]

Best of luck TW; you are obviously a class act and I/we wish you all success getting past this bump in the road.

Wish you well; take care of yourself, and good you have the gumption to take the high road as you see it.

let's ride safe and be careful out there,

Mike in Nawlins'

 

[bramfrank]

You ought to be able to get AT LEAST a 20% discount on the parts - and installation requires less than what's been suggested; My guess is 4 hours, based on the list.

If he won't deal on the parts call Gary Murphy at Murphskits or Mondak and buy the parts for your dealer from them - THAT ought to prove interesting and you won't have to pay sales taxes on the parts either . . . . there's a thread here with body parts pricing from Mondak and from Ronayers for an '06 on the board . . . . use that as a starting point.

Be happy the bags were off.

Having said that . . . main stand? Side stand? You went down hard . . . pay to fix it, but don't buy the bike, the fairing stay is possibly tweaked . . . . besides, you can buy a bike with a factory warranty for less.

 

[Tailwalk]

You ought to be able to get AT LEAST a 20% discount on the parts - and installation requires less than what's been suggested; My guess is 4 hours, based on the list.
If he won't deal on the parts call Gary Murphy at Murphskits or Mondak and buy the parts for your dealer from them - THAT ought to prove interesting and you won't have to pay sales taxes on the parts either . . . . there's a thread here with body parts pricing from Mondak and from Ronayers for an '06 on the board . . . . use that as a starting point.

Be happy the bags were off.

Having said that . . . main stand? Side stand? You went down hard . . . pay to fix it, but don't buy the bike, the fairing stay is possibly tweaked . . . . besides, you can buy a bike with a factory warranty for less.

hi BramFrank

I not at all experienced with bike damage, so appreciate your opinion further on this.

The side stand and main stand were just scraped on their sides but fully functional. Does that still mean that the bike went down hard and that the fairing stay or any other major structural part could be damaged?

THanks

David

 

[Tailwalk]

just curious and trying to help here...how many indicated miles when you started the test ride...the fact you test rode the bike means it's a demo if >100 miles

Thanks for your support and kind words in your last post.

To answer your question, the odometer wasn't readily visibly to me when I started my ride (maybe needed to hit a certain function key?) Anyways, I'll check the odometer when I get pictures of the bike.

Thanks

David