The Hog Phenomenon

[Knifemaker]

"terrific for two up riding at 55 to 65 mph in a straight line and modest turns"

That points out the two different type of riders there are. Some riders see their time on their bike as a challenge to get from point A to point B as quickly as they can, pushing their bikes to its limits. Here, you need a motorcycle that's "limits" actually exceed your abilities.

Some riders getting to point B isn't really the reason they are on the bike, and taking their time getting there just allows them more time enjoying just being on a motorcycle. Limits aren't pushed, they are actually avoided. Thus the bike does not need to exceed at anything other than being reasonably comfortable, and safe for this purpose.

Granted their are those that routinely go with a combination of these two, and that's why they just don't make cruisers and track ready sport bikes.

The OP here is attempting to compare apples to oranges, asking why do we need apples when oranges are so much healthier. Why do people buy huge SUV's? Shouldn't we all drive great handling sports cars?

And I know several people that do own Harley's. The idea that they are unreliable machines with lousy brakes, bad suspension, and no ability to take a corner is from what I can actually see a falsehood, an Urban Myth, and basically a lie.

I rode my Brother in laws Dynoglide...and found none of the horrid claims many perpetrate to be true. Bike sounded great, felt solid through a fast sweeper, and the brakes seemed fine. And yes, the bike looked cool.

Yes, not my cup of tea, but again I can see why many would like it.

 

[El Guapo Loco]

"terrific for two up riding at 55 to 65 mph in a straight line and modest turns"
That points out the two different type of riders there are. Some riders see their time on their bike as a challenge to get from point A to point B as quickly as they can, pushing their bikes to its limits. Here, you need a motorcycle that's "limits" actually exceed your abilities.

Some riders getting to point B isn't really the reason they are on the bike, and taking their time getting there just allows them more time enjoying just being on a motorcycle. Limits aren't pushed, they are actually avoided. Thus the bike does not need to exceed at anything other than being reasonably comfortable, and safe for this purpose.

Granted their are those that routinely go with a combination of these two, and that's why they just don't make cruisers and track ready sport bikes.

The OP here is attempting to compare apples to oranges, asking why do we need apples when oranges are so much healthier. Why do people buy huge SUV's? Shouldn't we all drive great handling sports cars?

And I know several people that do own Harley's. The idea that they are unreliable machines with lousy brakes, bad suspension, and no ability to take a corner is from what I can actually see a falsehood, an Urban Myth, and basically a lie.

I rode my Brother in laws Dynoglide...and found none of the horrid claims many perpetrate to be true. Bike sounded great, felt solid through a fast sweeper, and the brakes seemed fine. And yes, the bike looked cool.

Yes, not my cup of tea, but again I can see why many would like it.

I liked the harleys I had. I knew what I was getting so I had nothing to complain about.

By the way... you can live in an old shipping container. It will keep the wind and rain off of you and you could install heating/ac, plumbing and the like. I don't think anybody would have the nerve to charge you twice the going price of a house for that shipping container... rofl

But my point is (and always has been) that the perceived quality of a harley makes no difference. Owning one is the price of your ticket - your proof that you bow, to the will of the herd... The embodiment of the fact you are willing to sell your individuality, your free will, your very SOUL in order to be accepted.

Another interesting thread might be started. Why do you people buy motorcycles that can not be used to 10% of their capabilities on the streets and roads to which you have access? The land of interstellar overkill?

I think some of you don't get this. This thread is not about the machines. It's about the people that choose the machines, and why they do so. I am not putting any brand down or up, for that matter. So, lay your chauvinism aside, ok please?

Harleys are not very capable machines. FJRs are so capable that instant death leers at anyone foolish enough to even approach those capabilities, on the public streets and roads. So, why?

Why are 2,000 ccs better than 1000 ccs? 500 ccs will do what you can do legally, and sensibly (if not safely) on the public streets! I drive a thing that will... wow... to work? Do I have a death wish? Do I daydream of winning a race? I could have bought something that will do every bit of what I actually do, 99% of the time, for half the price. Am I trying to impress someone? Who?

Does anybody remember that "coo coo for coco puffs" commercial with the goofy looking bird that went nuts? Well, that reminds me of me, when it comes to bikes. There's no logic, rhyme or reason... Mr. Spock was my boyhood hero and I take pride im my rationality; in the fact that my intellect rules over all my other parts... Then the bike thing comes along and makes me a liar, again, and the worst kind of liar - a liar, to my self.

I've been run down twice by texting drivers. They say the third time is the charm... Still, I keep doing this shit!

In my mind we are talking the real CORE of what motorcycling is all about, right here, right now. So, talk to me.

Oh, and before you say I need to talk to a shrink, I already had five of them. 4 committed suicide and the 5tgh departed, in favor of of parts unknown

 

[Knifemaker]

That's exactly your problem El Guapo, you are trying to apply "logic" to motorcycles, the one form

of transportation that has no logic to other than the savings in fuel consumption.

"Thinking" has completely nullified your ability to understand anything. You're Spock and everyone else is Captain Kirk.

You just don't get it, and likely never will. All that matters is how it makes you feel. It's not about anything else.

I feel sorry for you.

 

[El Guapo Loco]

That's exactly your problem El Guapo, you are trying to apply "logic" to motorcycles, the one form of transportation that has no logic to other than the savings in fuel consumption. "Thinking" has completely nullified your ability to understand anything. You're Spock and everyone else is Captain Kirk. You just don't get it, and likely never will. All that matters is how it makes you feel. It's not about anything else. I feel sorry for you.

I have long been aware that men have what may be called a "functional" perception of their environment - i.e. how things work - while women have an "aesthetic" perception - i.e. how things look or feel. Your statement "Thinking has nullified your ability to understand anything." has... broadened my horizons, once more!

an excerpt from one of my favorite books:

Still shaking His head gently, in a negative manner, Ferdinand replied, "Mage, seeking an understanding of women is certainly the errand, of a fool. If you insist on being that fool you must abandon all logic, and reason, in favor of what, I truly do not know!

Logic and reason, cause and effect, the sequence of events, these are the manner, in which a man thinks. Only God knows, how a woman thinks! I quite strongly suspect He may have chosen to forget that. It may have interfered, with His ability to reason!

I honestly believe you have a much better chance of besting a huge dragon, with your hands empty than you have of knowing the mind, of any woman!"

I will simply stop thinking. Then the understanding I seek, will be mine!

 

[SouthernCruizer]

LMFAO...I decided to look up the "origin" of you name, El Guapo Loco...I fully expected it to be a reference of whatever it is you are smoking when you posts your ramblings...instead , I found this ...

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English Translation of GUAPO
1: handsome, good-looking, attractive

2: elegant, smart

3familiar : bold, dashing

_________________________________

AND....

1844, American English, from Spanish loco (adj.) "insane," of uncertain origin, perhaps from Arabic lauqa , fem. of 'alwaq "fool, crazy person." Loco-weed (1877) was name given to species of western U.S. plants that cause cattle and horse diseases that make them stagger and act strangely.

Carry on Grasshopper!!

 

[El Guapo Loco]

LMFAO...I decided to look up the "origin" of you name, El Guapo Loco...I fully expected it to be a reference of whatever it is you are smoking when you posts your ramblings...instead , I found this .......

...

...

...

...

English Translation of GUAPO

1: handsome, good-looking, attractive

2: elegant, smart

3familiar : bold, dashing

_________________________________

AND....

1844, American English, from Spanish loco (adj.) "insane," of uncertain origin, perhaps from Arabic lauqa , fem. of 'alwaq "fool, crazy person." Loco-weed (1877) was name given to species of western U.S. plants that cause cattle and horse diseases that make them stagger and act strangely.

Carry on Grasshopper!!

Aw heck - now you have me all figured out.

Oh WELL!

 

[Redfish Hunter]

What. The. Complete. Hell.

I have never seen a topic about any other brand on the Harley forums I have studied. They just talk about Harleys. Which makes me think they might be smarter than some of their critics.

 

[El Guapo Loco]

What. The. Complete. Hell.
I have never seen a topic about any other brand on the Harley forums I have studied. They just talk about Harleys. Which makes me think they might be smarter than some of their critics.

That may be because they don't think there ARE any other brands...

 

[Redfish Hunter]

For a fellow who doesn't seem to want anyone to be critical of what he has to say you sure seem to be awfully critical of others.

Yeah, they know about "other" brands. One clever fellow on a Harley forum posted that when he traveled he carried a large Yamaha bike cover. At night he would cover his expensive CVO HD with the Yamaha emblazoned cover. That way no one ever bothered his bike because there was no reason to steal Yamaha parts or accessories.

 

[SLK50]

A wise man learns much observing fools.

 

[El Guapo Loco]

OK, well, if this is going to get ugly I will drop out of it.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

OK, well, if this is going to get ugly I will drop out of it.

Really? Seriously? Please tell us all exactly what you expected to sow from the gibberish you typed in your Opening Post? Do you truly expect us to believe that you never expected any "ugly"? You tried to convince us that you were complex and intelligent but you act like you are confused when this...topic takes a sour turn. You type negativity then complain when you get negativity. I find a lack of sincerity and a surplus of self righteous arrogance along with prose that would fit nicely in a chapter of Alice in Wonderland.

The real question is why did so many of us waste our time responding to this cluster f*** of a thread.

 

[Knifemaker]

Ah padawon, I think now you are getting it. Motorcycles are an emotional item, not a "logical" concept.

Back in 2005 I was passing through Defiance MO. There's a biker bar there that's well known. And by "biker bar" I don't mean a HD hangout. It's a place that attracts all motorcyclists in the area. Think Rock

Shop. In the parking lot was a 2003 Silver grey 2003 FJR 1300. It was love at first site for me. I knew zip about the bike, but spent the next year researching it, and after a short ride on a 2005 my favorite salesman brought in for me to see (his personal bike) I signed up to buy a then unknown 2006 model. (Yes, back then, they were by order only)

I don't know how old you are, but I'm 64. Back when I was 18 I bought my first bike, a Suzuki TS185. This was my sole transportation 24/7/365. The following ten years of my life I never owned a car. My only transportation was a motorcycle. The Suzuki was traded in for a a Kawasaki S2. Which got replaced by a Yamaha RD 400. Which I took to the track and raced at WERRA events. It got replaced by a 550 Seca. But then I had a kid and finally bought a car. But still also had a bike as my primary ride.

My eyes and my ears directed me to the motorcycles I rode. Pretty much nothing has changed in that respect.

In this those years I've owned anything that caught my fancy. Kawasaki H1's, H2's, Nortons, Suzuki water buffalos, and later a Vulcan 750, then the FJR.

Your dismissal of HD motorcycles just shows to me you have a narrow view on what life on two wheels really is.

 

[El Guapo Loco]

OK, well, if this is going to get ugly I will drop out of it.

Really? Seriously? Please tell us all exactly what you expected to sow from the gibberish you typed in your Opening Post? Do you truly expect us to believe that you never expected any "ugly"? You tried to convince us that you were complex and intelligent but you act like you are confused when this...topic takes a sour turn. You type negativity then complain when you get negativity. I find a lack of sincerity and a surplus of self righteous arrogance along with prose that would fit nicely in a chapter of Alice in Wonderland.

The real question is why did so many of us waste our time responding to this cluster f*** of a thread.

If what you say is correct why is it that you are the only one to react in a negative manner?

Maybe it's not me, or my "prose." Maybe it's YOU, and the fact you are an ugly person. Everything above is your perception. Perceptions are, in large part, choices. Your choices identify you, so very quickly!

YOU are all over the web - all over the world. The spoiler. Everyone was having fun, 'till you showed up. But now the fun stops, because we have to deal with YOU.

Go back to the dank, dark hell that must be your "life." Take your misery, and your bile with you.

 

[08FJR4ME]

I rode a Hardly once. That was enough.

Thank you,

 

[El Guapo Loco]

Ah padawon, I think now you are getting it. Motorcycles are an emotional item, not a "logical" concept.
Back in 2005 I was passing through Defiance MO. There's a biker bar there that's well known. And by "biker bar" I don't mean a HD hangout. It's a place that attracts all motorcyclists in the area. Think Rock

Shop. In the parking lot was a 2003 Silver grey 2003 FJR 1300. It was love at first site for me. I knew zip about the bike, but spent the next year researching it, and after a short ride on a 2005 my favorite salesman brought in for me to see (his personal bike) I signed up to buy a then unknown 2006 model. (Yes, back then, they were by order only)

I don't know how old you are, but I'm 64. Back when I was 18 I bought my first bike, a Suzuki TS185. This was my sole transportation 24/7/365. The following ten years of my life I never owned a car. My only transportation was a motorcycle. The Suzuki was traded in for a a Kawasaki S2. Which got replaced by a Yamaha RD 400. Which I took to the track and raced at WERRA events. It got replaced by a 550 Seca. But then I had a kid and finally bought a car. But still also had a bike as my primary ride.

My eyes and my ears directed me to the motorcycles I rode. Pretty much nothing has changed in that respect.

In this those years I've owned anything that caught my fancy. Kawasaki H1's, H2's, Nortons, Suzuki water buffalos, and later a Vulcan 750, then the FJR.

Your dismissal of HD motorcycles just shows to me you have a narrow view on what life on two wheels really is.

I'm sorry - my "dismissal?"

Semantics, perhaps? I said a bagger falls very short when the normal criterion (i.e. acceleration, handling, braking etc) are applied to it. Does that constitute a dismissal? Has no one else wondered why a machine that rates so poorly in the normal ways to judge a bike does so well and has survived, for so long?

Your vast experience with bikes and your "time in grade" are duly noted and I am eager to give the respect you are due, to you. I will turn 70 years old on 10/01/2019 and I, too, have had the pleasure of owning a Norton So, do you know why the Brits drink warm beer? They have Lucas refrigerators...

Anyhow, I propose that we two dinosaurs try to get along, because most of our teeth fell out many years ago?

Ah, were that only the worst of the burdens we are obliged, to bear. Ever shall we be second class (at best) because we don't ride harleys... Traitors, are we, having turned our backs, on America! And now, for us, there is little hope

It may well be that I lack an overview of life on two wheels. A point, well taken. Maybe I avoid failure by choosing attainable goals? That concept leaves my head, spinning...

"It is the ability to turn adversity into advantage that makes one man a King, and another a fool." (King Daniel the Mighty, the Wise, the Kind and the Good) Harleys may, in fact, be a good thing. There are reasons people gravitate towards Harleys. None of them are good. The harley may be like the rattle, on a snake...

 

[El Guapo Loco]

I rode a Hardly once. That was enough.
Thank you,

^^^ what he said!

 

[BluenoseFJR]

It has already been said that a lot of the Harley phenomenon comes down to marketing. They have developed their brand and 'style' and a lot of people like it. A job well done in that respect really. As for me, I have not owned an HD. They just don't make the style of bike I want. My wife, however, has a newer Sportster. While I believe she is somewhat drawn to that HD style, the biggest reason for the purchase was simply that the bike fit. She started on a 650 Vstar - right size but not enough power. She then went to a 1300 Vstar Tourer which she loved for the power and stability on the highway, but with her at just under 5'2" it was simply too big a bike for her to comfortably handle in parking lots and city streets. The 1200 Sportster is much lighter and a little less wide so it fits her very well while still having the power she wants. It also has some tech that I would like to see on the FJR (self cancelling turn signals and proximity key).
We did buy it from the local HD clothing boutique, but I think the experience you will get is very much dealership dependent. Our experience was excellent. They are friendly, knowledgeable and responsive and took good care of us. Yes, they have a large clothing section, but they would be stupid not to take advantage of the brand identity and the revenue they gain from a loyal following. I certainly would be more confident buying a bike there than at other local bike shops where I have not had the same positive experiences. Definitely a trip out of town for my next bike.

Really it comes down to your own preferences. If you like the bike or the image that comes with it (HD or otherwise) then great. If not, then get something else. I don't agree that HD are the sorriest of bikes. Certainly no complaints about my wife's HD, but admittedly that is a pretty small sample size.

Well no, man... not sorry in that way. I liked the harleys I had.

I spoke in reference to the criterion I listed and harley's performance in those criterion. And if I had a fistfull of dollars to buy a bike, harley would not even garner a single thought.

But the people that do choose them... I'm trying to understand the process of thinking that yields that choice. If you think harleys are safe, think again! Ever try to panic stop one? Ever had to stop in the middle of a parking lot maneuver?

All the bad things about a bagger are very well known. There must be good things that not only negate the well-known bad things but actually swing the balance to "buy it." Those things remain unknown...

I'm waiting for somebody to do a post and say: I like my harley because... and I bought my harley because...

I'm looking for those good things, man!

This is exactly what I gave you. Directly from my post: "...the biggest reason for the purchase was simply that the bike fit.....The 1200 Sportster is much lighter and a little less wide so it fits her very well while still having the power she wants. It also has some tech that I would like to see on the FJR (self cancelling turn signals and proximity key)." So, I wonder if you are really looking for those good things or looking for people who agree with your dislike of HD and people who ride them? Painting every HD rider with the same brush is a little extreme. I don't like the attitude of those HOG members who say that their brand is the only real motorcycle, but that only applies to a part of the ridership. My wife, for instance, will still be seen riding with me on my Yamaha, as will many other people I know who own Harleys.

As for the 'well known bad things', are they really that bad? Especially more recent ones? There seem to be a lot of responses in this thread that would say they are not. Also, is the HD cult following that much different than some other brands? BMW I believe has a similar status despite some glaring reliability issues in recent years that saw final drive failures in practically brand new bikes across several models. Does that mean we should now mock loyal BMW customers for paying top dollar for an untrustworthy product? Are they still on board only for that BMW logo status symbol?

 

[El Guapo Loco]

It has already been said that a lot of the Harley phenomenon comes down to marketing. They have developed their brand and 'style' and a lot of people like it. A job well done in that respect really. As for me, I have not owned an HD. They just don't make the style of bike I want. My wife, however, has a newer Sportster. While I believe she is somewhat drawn to that HD style, the biggest reason for the purchase was simply that the bike fit. She started on a 650 Vstar - right size but not enough power. She then went to a 1300 Vstar Tourer which she loved for the power and stability on the highway, but with her at just under 5'2" it was simply too big a bike for her to comfortably handle in parking lots and city streets. The 1200 Sportster is much lighter and a little less wide so it fits her very well while still having the power she wants. It also has some tech that I would like to see on the FJR (self cancelling turn signals and proximity key).
We did buy it from the local HD clothing boutique, but I think the experience you will get is very much dealership dependent. Our experience was excellent. They are friendly, knowledgeable and responsive and took good care of us. Yes, they have a large clothing section, but they would be stupid not to take advantage of the brand identity and the revenue they gain from a loyal following. I certainly would be more confident buying a bike there than at other local bike shops where I have not had the same positive experiences. Definitely a trip out of town for my next bike.

Really it comes down to your own preferences. If you like the bike or the image that comes with it (HD or otherwise) then great. If not, then get something else. I don't agree that HD are the sorriest of bikes. Certainly no complaints about my wife's HD, but admittedly that is a pretty small sample size.

Well no, man... not sorry in that way. I liked the harleys I had.

I spoke in reference to the criterion I listed and harley's performance in those criterion. And if I had a fistfull of dollars to buy a bike, harley would not even garner a single thought.

But the people that do choose them... I'm trying to understand the process of thinking that yields that choice. If you think harleys are safe, think again! Ever try to panic stop one? Ever had to stop in the middle of a parking lot maneuver?

All the bad things about a bagger are very well known. There must be good things that not only negate the well-known bad things but actually swing the balance to "buy it." Those things remain unknown...

I'm waiting for somebody to do a post and say: I like my harley because... and I bought my harley because...

I'm looking for those good things, man!

This is exactly what I gave you. Directly from my post: "...the biggest reason for the purchase was simply that the bike fit.....The 1200 Sportster is much lighter and a little less wide so it fits her very well while still having the power she wants. It also has some tech that I would like to see on the FJR (self cancelling turn signals and proximity key)." So, I wonder if you are really looking for those good things or looking for people who agree with your dislike of HD and people who ride them? Painting every HD rider with the same brush is a little extreme. I don't like the attitude of those HOG members who say that their brand is the only real motorcycle, but that only applies to a part of the ridership. My wife, for instance, will still be seen riding with me on my Yamaha, as will many other people I know who own Harleys.

As for the 'well known bad things', are they really that bad? Especially more recent ones? There seem to be a lot of responses in this thread that would say they are not. Also, is the HD cult following that much different than some other brands? BMW I believe has a similar status despite some glaring reliability issues in recent years that saw final drive failures in practically brand new bikes across several models. Does that mean we should now mock loyal BMW customers for paying top dollar for an untrustworthy product? Are they still on board only for that BMW logo status symbol?

Generalities are, by definition, not valid in every case.

People seem defensive. Perhaps it's years of being held in contempt by the master race, riding the real motorcycles, that has caused me to ridicule them... even though I tried my best to stifle it? I really did. Honest.

Look, friend, I have no problem, whatsoever, with you or your wife riding whatever you like. And the fact that you know harley riders gracious enough to ride with you gives me hope! (sorry - I just can't help it!)

The topic has been digested. I had fun - and I hope everyone else did. Only one guy was a jerk and that speaks well of this group - well, indeed.

Let's have some FUN in here... ok? I didn't come here looking for or to cause bullsh*t. I have enough of that in my real life. How about you?

 

[lnewlf]

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