Those MOTHER...

[mdisher]

And again, for those taking notes...the part number of the Purolator filter?

Purolator Pure One PL14612 (It's in the bountiful bin of phacts).

I would agree if we could find out what Yamaha's alleged specs for the filter is then we could test some of these other filters which are believed to be better.

I'm more inclined to believe that this filter wasn't designed for this bike, in fact it fits a boat load of other bikes as well so it aint FJR specific. I'm sure they figured it (a stock Desno, or who ever is their provider of the choice) would work just fine. I mean the last Yamaha filter I bought, I bought from a dealer that had never seen an FJR, and when I wanted to buy on in 05 wouldn't order it, the pointed me elsewhere cause it aint their thing.

 

[Rickster]

most specs and speculation is here:

Clicky

also in the bin-o-facts

here's the deal...

what would the average consumer say (i.e. in a court of law)

If you used due dilligence, spec'd oil per the mfg. guidelines, and a reasonable filter designed for your bike....

and keep service records....

ultimately -- you and your lawyer should fair well in court.

but it rarely comes to that. You show you did the service properly, and kept records -- a good dealer (you may have to find one) or Yamaha will stand by a manufacturing defect.

as always ... YMMV, but as you can see -- otrfjr is getting the FJR repaired.

 

[S76]

Nice pics of the filters. Thanks.

But we all know the bottom line is this, you could take your filter out and throw it away and the motor would still last 100K. So how important really is it? Yeah, I also use the best I can find and change them often, but it is only to make ME feel good. The motor don't need it half as bad as we would like to think it does.

Besides, No filter can ruin a clutch. That is stupid. The clutch is splash lubed by whatever is splashing around. No pump needed.

And there is no way a clutch could go bad in 2000 miles even if it was 2000 miles worth of 1/4 mile runs. If there was something wrong with that clutch is was a manf. process problem that needs to be addressed by the dealer anyway.

One more reason I hate dealers. Not only are some ignorant, they are arogant too. Some 18 yr old puke that can't change a lawnmower spark plug spends a week at MMI and now he's "DA MAN." When the reality of it is he can't jet or rebuild a carb, because he's NEVER SEEN ONE BEFORE!

Rant OFF!

 

[cctxfjr]

most specs and speculation is here:
Clicky

also in the bin-o-facts

here's the deal...

what would the average consumer say (i.e. in a court of law)

If you used due dilligence, spec'd oil per the mfg. guidelines, and a reasonable filter designed for your bike....

and keep service records....

ultimately -- you and your lawyer should fair well in court.

but it rarely comes to that. You show you did the service properly, and kept records -- a good dealer (you may have to find one) or Yamaha will stand by a manufacturing defect.

as always ... YMMV, but as you can see -- otrfjr is getting the FJR repaired.

I see my path out of the swamp--I placed an order for all OEM with Mike at University Motors-easy deal (my bikes new 600 (+) miles) not much more money no sweating warranty work or hiring lawyers that will cost more than claim that I may or may not win. Nothing but OEM parts for me also dont like local dealer, no problem, mail man will deliver to my door from University Motors

 

[raclow]

I buy AC Delco filters for our fleet all the time. I pay about 1/3 the amount a GM dealer sells them across the counter for. Same filter, the money goes to the dealers bottom line, as GM sets the price, the dealer shops and buys at the lowest price he can, yet sells them at a price GM determined would give him a reasonable mark up if he bought them directly from GM, as intended. Now, Yamaha isn't GM, and I am unaware of any competition in the marketplace for oem Yami filters. But, unless that cannister contains unobtanium (and I've had them apart and looked, they don't), there's just no way that price can be arrived at except through pure and simple excessive mark up.
The Yamaha oem filter

The Purolator

I use the Pure 1 because it's a better filter, an all around better filter. Better construction, better relief valve construction (at 17 psi I might add, I believe but cannot confirm the Yam is 18 psi), the Yam used paper end caps, ala Fram, generally acknowledged to be a piece of **** by motorheads everywhere, the Pure does not. The Genny Yam filter uses a 25 cent piece of stamped steel as a relief valve, not unlike those found in $1.99 generic junk filters, the Pure 1 a coil spring. Tell me how accurate do you think that stamping is at maintaining 18 psi exactly? Which one, if all other conditions were eliminated, would you rather have on your hi-perf favorite toy? Note the above photo isn't even the Pure 1, built to a yet higher standard, yet still half the price of that Yami junk. Now I buy and believe in oem parts for a lot of reasons, but it isn't a hard and fast rule. One must research what one uses-and make decisions based on facts and not marketing or claims, as has been said. The informed consumer is a dangerous animal, marketing types tremble in fear the world over when people start making informed purchasing decisions.

Edit-the Yam filter is designed to-get this-relieve at 17.19 to 26.01 lbs, near as I can calculate. Now, thats precision.

These are good pictures to see and thanks for dissecting these filters.

There are many people on this forum using the ST 7317 filter. Has there been a comparison done with the ST filter v. the Yamaha filter? Like the Purolator v. Yamaha?

Thanks.

 

[Windjammer]

It's sometimes puzzling as to why dealers are such asshats about warranty work - they get paid either way. You'd think they wouldn't raise much of a fuss except in cases where the customer is truly being a liar or a ******** - in other words, the kind of person whose business you don't want anyway. Seems like both the dealer and Yamaha would be best served by avoiding goofy BS like this case.

Wrong oil filter? Gimme a break! While I happen to use the OEM filter for convenience of ordering from UM, I wouldn't be worried about using a reputable aftermarket product.

Jestal made some very good points about the OEM filters and specs. Keep in mind, however, that aftermarket products are still tested in the court of public opinion. If a certain brand of oil filter was proved to be causing some kind of major problem, half the world would know about it within a week. Word got around pretty quick back when it was found that Fram had a problem.

Either way, OEM or not, using a reputable brand and doing some research is always helpful.

 

[dbvolfan]

Havent had the balls yet to put the ST7317 on my FJR...for $5 more I'll buy the OEM and not worry about fouling up my fav bike. That said, I have used the ST7317 on my Honda Shadow with no ill effects. Hard to argue with $2.17 price vs $7.95 for the Honda/Yammie filters but then again my Shadow is my rain/beater bike so I am more willing to experiment with it.

 

[radman]

Actually, the Pure 1 number to use is the PL14610-longer than the 12 (and the Yami oe), once again more media, less pressure and flow drop across, but still easily fits with the Riley Hi-Way peg bracket installed.

 

[otrfjr]

Actually, the Pure 1 number to use is the PL14610-longer than the 12 (and the Yami oe), once again more media, less pressure and flow drop across, but still easily fits with the Riley Hi-Way peg bracket installed.

That's the one I used, but I assumed that total pressure within the oil system would not be affected because I topped it off using the sight glass once the extra capacity of the filter was filled/saturated.

 

[radman]

Actually, the Pure 1 number to use is the PL14610-longer than the 12 (and the Yami oe), once again more media, less pressure and flow drop across, but still easily fits with the Riley Hi-Way peg bracket installed.

That's the one I used, but I assumed that total pressure within the oil system would not be affected because I topped it off using the sight glass once the extra capacity of the filter was filled/saturated.

I just use a Mobil1 15-50 5 qt jug as a measure device, it has an easy window to work with. Fill to 4 liter mark with lube de jour, dump into Feej of choice, badda bing, badda boom.

 

[Wingman]

most specs and speculation is here:
Clicky

also in the bin-o-facts

This helps a lot. Very informative and information is easy to digest.

Actually, the Pure 1 number to use is the PL14610-longer than the 12 (and the Yami oe), once again more media, less pressure and flow drop across, but still easily fits with the Riley Hi-Way peg bracket installed.

The longer filter with more filter media is always a better choice IMNSHO.

Hell, I learned more about oil filters from this thread than I ever wanted to know. I won't be buying any more OEM filters after reading this.

David

 

[painman]

Actually, the Pure 1 number to use is the PL14610-longer than the 12 (and the Yami oe), once again more media, less pressure and flow drop across, but still easily fits with the Riley Hi-Way peg bracket installed.

+1. This is why I use the Purolator. The link from cctxfjr for the filter comparisons led me to the Purolator "One" filter early on which is the better filter. The horizontal mounting and lack of pressure the bike has is critical as to oil filtration vs. automotive mounting and the long filter does fit fine with the Riley peg setup on my bike as well. Seems alot of other filters are not even filtering but using the bypass due to this lack of pressure at lower rpm's where as the Purolator filter is king by not only better filter qualities at any rpm but that it is actually filtering and very well I might add. I live in northern Ca. and the "only" place I could find the Purolator was at PepBoys. PM. So, I guess the secret here is to save your old Yamaha filter and make sure its on when bring it down for warrantee work. PM. <><

 

[mdisher]

Hell, I learned more about oil filters from this thread than I ever wanted to know. I won't be buying any more OEM filters after reading this.

If I learned anything, it's that you *should* always have an OEM filter handy to install in the event your ride needs to go back to the dealer so that they don't jack you around for not having an OEM filter on the bike even though it's mostly been proved that it's inferior to a significant portion 3rd party filters.

When asked you can always simply say you've used an OEM or better filter.

 

[radman]

+1. This is why I use the Purolator. The link from cctxfjr for the filter comparisons led me to the Purolator "One" filter early on which is the better filter. The horizontal mounting and lack of pressure the bike has is critical as to oil filtration vs. automotive mounting and the long filter does fit fine with the Riley peg setup on my bike as well. Seems alot of other filters are not even filtering but using the bypass due to this lack of pressure at lower rpm's where as the Purolator filter is king by not only better filter qualities at any rpm but that it is actually filtering and very well I might add. I live in northern Ca. and the "only" place I could find the Purolator was at PepBoys. PM. <><

Actually, Paindude, it's restriction and the pressure rise that results that causes a bypass. The oil filter in the FJR (and all modern engines) is a full flow filter-IE: all oil flows through the filter before being distributed through the engine. The bypass feature built into the oil filter prevents starvation should the filter plug or otherwise be unable to allow sufficient flow of oil to the engine, which would have obvious effects on longevity. Overly thick oil, cold (and thick) oil, high flow demands (high revs on a cold motor), all will cause the filter to bypass. At idle and low rpm's, flow is slower and not likely to cause the filter to bypass unless it is so plugged the filter has to bypass to allow flow. The bypass is simple, oil pressure defeats the pressure of the spring holding the element against the top plate. But thats why that springs tension is important, too light the filter bypasses too easily, too heavy and the possibility of starvation becomes real.

If I learned anything, it's that you *should* always have an OEM filter handy to install in the event your ride needs to go back to the dealer so that they don't jack you around for not having an OEM filter on the bike even though it's mostly been proved that it's inferior to a significant portion 3rd party filters.
When asked you can always simply say you've used an OEM or better filter.

Thats what I would do.

 

[Wingman]

If I learned anything, it's that you *should* always have an OEM filter handy to install in the event your ride needs to go back to the dealer so that they don't jack you around for not having an OEM filter on the bike even though it's mostly been proved that it's inferior to a significant portion 3rd party filters.
When asked you can always simply say you've used an OEM or better filter.

I have the requisite OEM filter sitting in a box with several quarts of Yamalube. Just in case. But, if someone asks to see a maintainance log with reciepts it could get interesting.

That nasty black stuff with shiny metal flakes that poured out of the bottom of the bike at the first oil change made me wonder if the OEM filter did anything at all.

David

 

[raclow]

If I learned anything, it's that you *should* always have an OEM filter handy to install in the event your ride needs to go back to the dealer so that they don't jack you around for not having an OEM filter on the bike even though it's mostly been proved that it's inferior to a significant portion 3rd party filters.

When asked you can always simply say you've used an OEM or better filter.

Thats what I would do.

Just a thought, what happens if they happen to ask you to provide them with receipts for the purchases of these OEM oil filters because the dealer doesn't have records showing you purchased the filters from them???

Just flipping this out there for review. I need to make sure I have a story should the occasion arise :huh:

 

[radman]

That nasty black stuff with shiny metal flakes that poured out of the bottom of the bike at the first oil change made me wonder if the OEM filter did anything at all. David

It did-particles less than 30 microns or so aren't considered detrimental to engine internals. The fact remains though that the oil does more than lube bearings, it also lube the cylinder walls. You'd be surprised the number of engines I've pulled down to find particles of metal, sometimes HUGE particles of metal imbedded in bearing shells, sometimes with no effect, sometimes cutting a nice groove in the crank. Oil filter failure or bypass somewhere along the line caused this. Most engines have junk rings long before the bearings are sick. There's valves, too, usually the first to go, but thats a different story. In any case, keeping the rings healthy and doing their thing is key to good power and smoothness, abrasives in the oil don't help them one bit, one of the big reasons I change oil so often, as opposed to those who advocate longer change intervals.

 

[otrfjr]

Round 4.

I sucked it up and went in to apologize to the guys in service at my dealership. The person I originally talked to on the phone was the service coordinator (the one I yelled at), not the service manager. After apologizing, I talked with the service manager & explained why I was frustrated: please tell me why the Purolator One doesn't meet Yamaha OEM specs (& I asked specifically that they give me those specs). They said, well, no one has ever told us what those specs are. OK. Please tell me what the filter has to do with the wet clutch. Things got interesting:

Service manager says that non-OEM filters are subject to spikes in oil pressure.

I said fine: there's a way to test oil psi, let's plug this filter on the bike and do a comparison with an OEM filter.

No, he said, there might be localized spikes in oil pressure.

Such as...

We can't be sure. No way of knowing. However, (and at this point he pulled out the service manual to look at the schematic for the oil system) note that the first stop for oil after the filter is the clutch. If spikes in pressure did occur, that would be the first place they would be noticed. Low pressure, no oil getting to the plates, plates are dry & go away.

Can you prove that spikes in pressure from a non-OEM filter caused the damage to the clutch?

No, we don't have to: we just have to show that there is a possibility that this could occur.

Could the plates have been dry for any other reason not related to the filter?

Possibly, but there's no way of knowing.

So, I did get an explanation even if I don't agree with it. Turns out, he was very nice & enjoyed explaining how they reached their decision & wasn't at all opposed to me getting Yamaha HQ to cover it as warranty work. He even said that he called their regional tech/warranty hq to try to get it covered as warranty work but they denied it at the regional level because of the non-OEM filter.

So, my apologies for bad-mouthing them. My apologies to the board for my tirade as well.

 

[Scab]

One thing still puzzles me. He stated that non-OEM filters are subject to pressure spikes, implying that somebody TESTED them. But, in the same breath, admits that there are no available specs on the OEM filter, implying that NOBODY TESTED them. This is not logic. This is clearly just stacking the deck. I realize it means nothing, but I cry foul.

And another thing...A SPIKE is a temporary rise in pressure. How would this damage the clutch as he described?

And yet another thing...what the hell is "localized spikes?" If the spike is somewhere other than the filter in/out, could that not also mean that the spike was caused by an internal engine manufacturing defect, such as a restriction?

 

[otrfjr]

One thing still puzzles me. He stated that non-OEM filters are subject to pressure spikes, implying that somebody TESTED them. But, in the same breath, admits that there are no available specs on the OEM filter, implying that NOBODY TESTED them. This is not logic. This is clearly just stacking the deck. I realize it means nothing, but I cry foul.
And another thing...A SPIKE is a temporary rise in pressure. How would this damage the clutch as he described?

And yet another thing...what the hell is "localized spikes?" If the spike is somewhere other than the filter in/out, could that not also mean that the spike was caused by an internal engine manufacturing defect, such as a restriction?

He used anecdotal evidence: while I've been working here we've seen bikes with non-OEM filters that have suffered X damage because of spikes in psi.

Part of the problem is measurement: the oil is measured as psi, but there should be some rates of flow data for the filter: so many ml's per minute as optimal. No one knows those numbers. Could find out by setting up a test & running oil through the filter using hot psi & measuring what comes out.