2006 Charging Output from Service Manual

[Groo]

Not that I really want to dive into this evolving fracas... but in case I wasn't clear (which happens more often then you'd ever guess... just ask my daughters)... I was asking if maybe mamma Yamma screwed the pooch on their own official manual in putting the 590 W number for the alternator... some minimum wage typist in a Tokyo manual sweatshop types a 5 and not a 4... not the illegal chinese manual pirates who are undercutting the established worldwide shop manual market we all know, love, and depend on ... :blink:

I also realize that the alternator, stator, turn signal, left pitot tube, and hubcaps on the '06 probably all have new part numbers... Still doesn't get around the real question... why the F&*% didn't Yamaha make this 590W number common knowlege?

Do the '06 stock systems eat up the additional wattage for a negligible gain? That's the only reason I can think of not to say anything... can you imagine what we'd have said if they stated... "And for '06 the alternator puts out another 100 watts .... which we used up before you ever had a chance to get your dirty little farklefingers on... nyah, nyah, nyah... Oh, and the AE is even worse due to the gizmos we had to install to get that clutchless **** to work..." :lol:

 

[Scab]

Hell, Groo, I knew what you meant. It would appear some are wound a little tighter than others.

And didn't yamaha PRINT a little info about a certain RPM on another bike also? We all know how that went in reality.

 

[Ignacio]

Boy, the speculation in this thread is running rampant.

1) The e-copy of the page...and the manual isn't a fake. I mean, there are people who scan (or get e-copies) illegally and put them out there, but the effort to completely fake a manual and get everything else right but that one figure would be more work than copying the original by order of magnitude. It's a real copy I'm sure.

2) It could be a typo from Yamaha. A 100 watt...exactly 100 watt increase is a HUGE amount. I concur that if Yamaha did upgrade it that amount while they've deliberately left the whole power plant alone is a possible option. I don't think they've also added a 100 watt of system usage. That would even be huger.

3) I've got a bet with somebody that they didn't raise the alternator output any at all. If this is a typo....it complicates that bet certainly. Regardless, I think we all want to know for sure definitively. Seems this is going to develop into a bit of a mystery.

 

[Groo]

Sounds like something that a Yamaha dealer could ping back to the suits at Cypress... now let's see... who do we know that might know a Yamaha dealer somewhere... hmmmm... coughTONYcough....

 

[Rogue]

Well I was told by a Cypress rep at the Long Beach show that it would be upped by 100watts but I could never get it confirmed.

 

[Scab]

Well, if it is true, that sucks arse big-time. Why? Cause mine is an '05.

 

[Dallara]

Hey, Scab...

I knew exactly what Groo meant, too, and I have seen plenty of factory manual typos over the years - from Honda, Yamaha, KTM, Ducati, etc... You name it - and I would have considered that a very real possiblity, too, except...

Why the change in the manufacturer (Denso) model number, and why all the changes to the rectifier?

My guess is exactly something else Groo is alluding to in one of his more recent posts - the electric shift AE requires more juice so they upped the alternator and rectifier to suit. Reason Yamaha didn't make a big deal about it?

Simple. Probably close to that entire 100 watts gets cooked away by the AE. Sure, it means a free 100 watts more for the plain ol' A, but if they hyped that the AE buyers would be a bit miffed knowing they couldn't farkle to their hearts content. It's important to note, too, that according to this service manual I have for the USA model '06 FJR AE electric shift comes STANDARD with electric grips. No doubt Yamaha wanted a little wriggle room there along with the servos, etc. that it takes to do all the electric shifting and clutch actuation.

Personally, I think the entire 100 watt increase in alternator output was for the AE, and it needed it. Lucky A owners simply get a *bonus* 100 watts.

Just my two yen, anyway...

Dallara

 

[Groo]

Dallara,

+1... what you stated is the only thing I've seen that makes some semblance of sense, if you discount the typo theory. They just couldn't find a good enough way to sell the alternator info without letting it be known that the AE is an electricity hog. So they just shut up about it, and figured once we knew, there wouldn't be much we could do about it anyway. Although if I was a LD/IBA type and bought an AE not knowing the difference... I might have a gripe or two.

Will be interesting to see if the alternator can be used in an '03-'05, or if one goes bad on an earlier model do you have to replace it with an older version...? How long will there continue to be a supply of the older alternators?

 

[SkooterG]

Well, needless to say, this has been an interesting thread. Very interesting information - thanks Dallara.

Dallara - just ignore twowheelnut if at all possible. Boy just ain't right. His mama must sat on his head or something when he was a fugly little kid, cut off the circulation to that wee little brain of his.

One thing I would like to add: I think some are making some pretty big assumptions about the AE being a electricity hog. Other than the heated grips, which have always been an option anyways, whose to say the auto-clutch uses all that much electrical power? I mean it's not like it's shifting all the time. Overall, probably a very small percentage of the time. At any rate until we get more facts, lots of mental masturbation.

I am skeptical, but encouraged. Hoping for the best. But I agree, changes to part #s of other components points to a significant re-design of the complete system.

Very interesting.

 

[Fencer]

I am game, Is there a tech god around? How do you test it? I have an 06. I have lots o tools but little knowledge in the lightening bolt dept.

Step by step guide or I could touch my tongue to the battery like a 9 volt. Hey slapppy you need a reason to get out of Tenn. right?

 

[BugR]

One thing I would like to add: I think some are making some pretty big assumptions about the AE being a electricity hog. Other than the heated grips, which have always been an option anyways, whose to say the auto-clutch uses all that much electrical power? I mean it's not like it's shifting all the time. Overall, probably a very small percentage of the time. At any rate until we get more facts, lots of mental masturbation.

SkooterG Sorry I have to disagree with the above

The AE is not auto shifting it's an auto clutch.

At low speeds the system is going to be operating a max duty cycle (think about when you use your clutch),

You think a 100W is a lot for such a system, try squeezing the clutch in and out for an hour.

The output of the alternator is very rpm dependent.

At idle to 3000 rpm you might well get 100W less than the 5000 rating.

Stuck in traffic, if they used the existing generator system they well may be in a deficit position.

Hell I ran into the same problem at the ERC course I took two weeks ago.

After a morning riding around a parking lot I had to bump start my '05.

And the AE comes with std heated grips and a 12V socket fitted,

I'm going with they had to up the output for the AE but didn't want to advertise the fact because it would be a significant factor not to buy one for a lot of people.

Edit (Thinking about it a bit more.... Can you bump start an AE????, The Std FJR battery is one of it's weaker points, they must have known they had to do something)

Chris

 

[howardp73]

One additional comment.

A rep from Yamaha Cypress that I talked to at Daytona made the following comments. This guy seemed to know more about the FJR than would be typical. He stated that the alrernator output had been increased for '06. He said it was more involved than just an upgraded stator. He commented that it was on both the A and AE models. He said it was a necessary change due to the Auto Clutch but that the upgraded electrics would be on both models. He also mentioned that the heated grips are tied into the bike electronics and that when at a stop the grips are de-energized.

 

[Groo]

Thanks Howard...

That jives well with the situation as we currently understand it. Redesign the electronics to support the AE mods... the A's get it as well (no sense in having 2 alternators/electronics being sold at the same time).

 

[Scab]

It still sucks. Mine is still an '05. What is going to power my sub-woofers?

 

[Feejer/Weejer man]

Good info for thought. Most don't go into the variables. I am like you, show me proof. If Yamaha did change it then why didn't they advertise when they knew the FJR alternator was short of power? Maybe like you said with the linked braking etc. maybe the extra output is need to stay even.

Hey Dallara, hows your karma?

If your CD is antitrust

Your FJR is doomed to rust.

 

[Groo]

It still sucks. Mine is still an '05. What is going to power my sub-woofers?

Here you go Scab....

 

[Fencer]

It still sucks. Mine is still an '05. What is going to power my sub-woofers?

just say "boom" in your helmet at the appropriate time

Hey not to change the topic but.... Anybody else notice a FNG with less than 20 post has SHUT UP TWN?? That is HUGE :yahoo: That may be more news worthy than the output wattage!!

Way to go Dal

 

[Scab]

It still sucks. Mine is still an '05. What is going to power my sub-woofers?

Here you go Scab....

Do they have that in billet alluminum?

Boom

Boom

Boom

...just practicing

 

[Fencer]

BTW, BugR asked about some pictures of the 2006 stator, etc.
I would be happy to take some, especially since I have to be pulling that cover anyway. Why, you may ask?

Because the alternator cover was one of the pieces that was "crate damaged" on my 2006, and I've got a new one sitting outside in the box (along with all the other new pieces to replace the damaged ones) with a fresh gasket. When I can find some time this next week to swap the parts I will shoot some pics of the stator, rotor, etc. and post 'em here as soon as I got 'em.

Hope it helps!

Dallara

Dont forget to stick a tape measure in there while your at it

 

[ionbeam]

I am game,. ..How do you test it? I have an 06. I have lots o tools but little knowledge in the lightening bolt dept.

'Fencer, stop by, I've got the test equipment here in Manchester, NH.

Equipment list

.01 ohm shunt resistor in series with the negative battery lead

4 ½ digit DMM to read shunt

1k watt variable load, preferably water or forced air cooled

4 channel O'scope to monitor the 3 phase AC output of the stator

DMM to monitor output of regulator/rectifier

throttle lock

1 thermocouple to measure engine ambient temp

1 thermocouple to measure stator temp

1 thermocouple to measure regulator/rectifier temp

1 thermocouple to measure ambient air temp

Establish electrical and mechanical operating profile at which to take measurements

1.0 k rpm - low load

1.0 k rpm - high load

collect all measurements

3.0 k rpm - low/high load

collect all measurements

>5k rpm - low/high load

collect all measurements

extended run - low rpm high load

extended run - 5k rpm high load

collect all measurements and map temp and voltage profiles at stator and R/R over time

Analysis

Shut down, beverage of choice, Excel time. This isn't a fully comprehensive test but it does cover the basics. Resistance and magnetics change with temp, wire length and gauge matters, electrical noise and filtering, rate of change between load vs rpm, etc round out the picture.