Altitude surging on 07 fix

[rangerray]

I have little assurance at this point that my dealer will actually call me to tell me to come in for the fix. Maybe they will; who knows. They wouldn't call Yamaha to talk to them about my issue. I've dealt with them vis e-mail since and they won't respond to e-mails, even though I have been every bit non-confrontational. Even when I informed them about reporting to the NHTSA, I let them know that this was no reflection on their dealership, but moreso on a large company that was giving their customers little information other than "sit tight, it'll be anywhere from 2 weeks to 1 month." Besides, I've had other issues with this dealer too and they just aren't how they should be.

In light of that, I probably would prefer to get it fixed at any other dealership. I wonder if that's going to be possible? Should I go to another dealer of my choice and start laying the groundwork now? I've already called Yamaha myself and they have it documented that I have the problem too. I do know in the past that we haven't been required to use any specific dealer for warranty repairs.

 

[PTINSTRUCTOR]

I have little assurance at this point that my dealer will actually call me to tell me to come in for the fix. Maybe they will; who knows. They wouldn't call Yamaha to talk to them about my issue. I've dealt with them vis e-mail since and they won't respond to e-mails, even though I have been every bit non-confrontational. Even when I informed them about reporting to the NHTSA, I let them know that this was no reflection on their dealership, but moreso on a large company that was giving their customers little information other than "sit tight, it'll be anywhere from 2 weeks to 1 month." Besides, I've had other issues with this dealer too and they just aren't how they should be.
In light of that, I probably would prefer to get it fixed at any other dealership. I wonder if that's going to be possible? Should I go to another dealer of my choice and start laying the groundwork now? I've already called Yamaha myself and they have it documented that I have the problem too. I do know in the past that we haven't been required to use any specific dealer for warranty repairs.

It doesn't matter which dealership you use. Most dealerships welcome new business. You should know that the back end of a dealership pays the rent and most of the overhead. Mechanics that are not working are not contributing to the cost of running the dealership.

The profit on the motorcycle is just one small part of the profit structure. Back rooms and parts counters do a lot more.

My bet is another dealership would welcome your business, whether you bought from them or not.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

<snip>Edit: The ECM part number is different between 06 and 07 so something changed inside of it even though the fuel injection hardware seems to be the same between the two.

Yes, that is true....but, when my friend ordered an '06 ECU ('06 part no.) to attempt to fix his horrible fueling '07 -- he received an '07 ECU. Parts dept. said the part was up-dated and the '06 number no longer applies. And, of course (when he actually changed ECUs), it had no effect on the problem.

Makes one wonder what '06 owners will run into if/when they ever need to replace their ECU...??

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

<snip>I have little assurance at this point that my dealer will actually call me to tell me to come in for the fix. Maybe they will; who knows. .....In light of that, I probably would prefer to get it fixed at any other dealership. I wonder if that's going to be possible?

It doesn't matter which dealership you use. Most dealerships welcome new business. ....My bet is another dealership would welcome your business, whether you bought from them or not.

True....what he says -- if they're 'straight shooters' and don't have some other agenda?

The resolution to this problem may end up being a simple "plug and play" -- replacing the ECU. If you can (or don't mind) doing a little work yourself (or have a friend who can?) you may be able to get the (re-call) part from University Motors -- a well known vendor to this forum. When the TPS re-call came out (I never got a letter or any notice other than this forum) I ordered a new one from Univ. Motors, sent them my old one, and was credited the full amount. Fixed my FJR -- dealer, what dealer?

 

[rangerray]

True....what he says -- if they're 'straight shooters' and don't have some other agenda?The resolution to this problem may end up being a simple "plug and play" -- replacing the ECU. If you can (or don't mind) doing a little work yourself (or have a friend who can?) you may be able to get the (re-call) part from University Motors -- a well known vendor to this forum. When the TPS re-call came out (I never got a letter or any notice other than this forum) I ordered a new one from Univ. Motors, sent them my old one, and was credited the full amount. Fixed my FJR -- dealer, what dealer?

That would be the ultimate! If it's just a matter of taking off the old and installing the new, not only could I do it, but would indeed enjoy it. At least I could do it knowing that no new scratches would be added to my pride and joy. I would think that a dealer around here would let me do that. One dealership replaced a mirror under warranty and let me handle it that way. The only thing he required was that I bring the old mirror back to him when I was done.

I may give my old Olive Branch dealer a call (I bought an '03 FJR from them). If nothing else, he will at least listen to me and doesn't act as though he is GOD.

 

[painman]

When talking to the Technical Specialist a few days ago on the phone when I reported my problem on the 06, he said, "Yamaha has identified the problem with the 06 and the 07 as a starving issue". Makes me tend to agree with Jestals comments on fuel delivery mapping and the ECU. PM. ><>

 

[co425]

When talking to the Technical Specialist a few days ago on the phone when I reported my problem on the 06, he said, "Yamaha has identified the problem with the 06 and the 07 as a starving issue". Makes me tend to agree with Jestals comments on fuel delivery mapping and the ECU. PM. ><>

well I hope they are working on the 06s too mine is useless in the mountains will be going to the dealer tomorow so they can contact Yamaha for me. If its not fixed this bike will be going bye bye thats for sure.

 

[Bob Hughes]

I have little assurance at this point that my dealer will actually call me to tell me to come in for the fix. Maybe they will; who knows. They wouldn't call Yamaha to talk to them about my issue. I've dealt with them vis e-mail since and they won't respond to e-mails, even though I have been every bit non-confrontational. Even when I informed them about reporting to the NHTSA, I let them know that this was no reflection on their dealership, but moreso on a large company that was giving their customers little information other than "sit tight, it'll be anywhere from 2 weeks to 1 month." Besides, I've had other issues with this dealer too and they just aren't how they should be.
In light of that, I probably would prefer to get it fixed at any other dealership. I wonder if that's going to be possible? Should I go to another dealer of my choice and start laying the groundwork now? I've already called Yamaha myself and they have it documented that I have the problem too. I do know in the past that we haven't been required to use any specific dealer for warranty repairs.

Having been down this road a few times on other bikes it sounds like everything is going right (I know it does not feel that way) because this thing could have dragged on for years instead of months. Prompt diagnosis and documentation on this board probably made it easy for them too. The proof is in the pudding so put your seat belts on and wait 30 days and you will have your answer. The parts usually go to the dealers depending on how many they sold initially then they send the rest where they are needed. I am in the car business and our service people are busy and while they are polite they just don't have the time to discuss the hypotheticals of this stuff (they work on commision) when Yamaha has already given them a solution and a time frame. My guess is you know a lot more about it than they do right now. I would stay with your dealer because he will know what he needs to when he needs to know it.

 

[Mick]

I think you guys may be misunderstanding how the MAP sensor could provide an estimation of the BARO value.
SNIP

I still think that the surging on the 07's is a combination of a base fueling table inaccuracy COMBINED with the baroless error at higher altitudes.

Jestal,

Thanks for an EXCELLENT description of the problem! I've been involved with large system processors for 30 years and your

explanation of how fast the CPU can read/adjust the FI tables is right on. I too wondered if they moved the BARO sensor 'inside'

the ECU housing (just like BMW did on the Motronic ECU back in 1992). If they did, and if they sealed the enclosure too well,

maybe they created their own altitude problem. I know for a fact that BMW used about a 1/2" hole covered in Gortex material

on their Motronics ECU connector to allow the on-board BARO sensor to 'see' the actual barometric pressure at all times.

It will be interesting to see how effective this new ECU is at accurate FI control. I still think the FI control is falling outside the tables

for some reason and in most cases it goes full rich as has been indicated by the MPG display going WAY down during the incident.

Mick

 

[quietguy]

"My baro pressure sensor is on the verge of blowing"... lol

My input... FIX THE MOTHER, period.

Better yet, think I'll go back to Harley... never had any problems with that bike.

 

[timalan]

"My baro pressure sensor is on the verge of blowing"... lol
My input... FIX THE MOTHER, period.

Better yet, think I'll go back to Harley... never had any problems with that bike.

Better get an old carb harley.... I've been hearing the '07 and '08 models that have fuel injection are having all kinds of problems. Of course only believe none of what you hear! But Two Harley owners have told me this.... Harley Told one of the guys that the Glowing Red Parts are normal on that lean of a running Fuel Injected

bike and unless there is something that melts.... keep riding it.

 

[quietguy]

"My baro pressure sensor is on the verge of blowing"... lol
My input... FIX THE MOTHER, period.

Better yet, think I'll go back to Harley... never had any problems with that bike.

Better get an old carb harley.... I've been hearing the '07 and '08 models that have fuel injection are having all kinds of problems. Of course only believe none of what you hear! But Two Harley owners have told me this.... Harley Told one of the guys that the Glowing Red Parts are normal on that lean of a running Fuel Injected

bike and unless there is something that melts.... keep riding it.

Actually, I sold an 07 Softail Custom to buy the FJR... had no probs with it. Some of the touring models had an issue with heat, but it's been resolved with a reflash of the ECM.

 

[adaniel]

Has anyone that purchased an '07 from D&H gotten their take on this issue?

 

[TruWrecks]

When talking to the Technical Specialist a few days ago on the phone when I reported my problem on the 06, he said, "Yamaha has identified the problem with the 06 and the 07 as a starving issue". Makes me tend to agree with Jestals comments on fuel delivery mapping and the ECU. PM. ><>

If it's a "fuel starving" issue, whay does my bike drop to 18-20 MPG on the instant readout? :blink:

 

[IanS]

Just had a call from my dealer, new ECU should be in their hands in next 2-3 days.

Or maybe not. Just had a call from Yamaha Customer Service to say the new ECU is being air freighted and should be in Holland probably next week. Will then have to be sent from Holland to UK as soon as they show as available. Piss ups and breweries spring to mind.

 

[ELP_JC]

Just hung up with Steve (FJR product specialist). My perseverance paid off, and he finally called me back after leaving several messages.

He said the problem is fixed (yeeehaaaa!), but when asked him how, he didn't know if ECU alone, or ECU and baro sensor. We'll find out soon enough, but the good news is dealers should get the parts by mid October. They will finish the packaging (instructions, parts, etc) by the end of this month.

This guy was indeed inundated with calls, but he's calling one by one until he's done. I gave him my VIN to make sure I'm in their system, and I'm now. He said he'd either personally call me, or send me a letter when parts ship to my dealer. As long as the problem is fixed at least 90%, I'd consider myself lucky. Later gang.

JC

 

[SANFRANFJR]

Just hung up with Steve (FJR product specialist). My perseverance paid off, and he finally called me back after leaving several messages. He said the problem is fixed (yeeehaaaa!), but when asked him how, he didn't know if ECU alone, or ECU and baro sensor. We'll find out soon enough, but the good news is dealers should get the parts by mid October. They will finish the packaging (instructions, parts, etc) by the end of this month.

This guy was indeed inundated with calls, but he's calling one by one until he's done. I gave him my VIN to make sure I'm in their system, and I'm now. He said he'd either personally call me, or send me a letter when parts ship to my dealer. As long as the problem is fixed at least 90%, I'd consider myself lucky. Later gang.

JC

I must have been on hold while you were talking to him. Just left him with all my info, and his promise to contact me when the fix is available and how to go about getting it done. It feels good to be " in the system "

Now I just have to hurry up and wait for mid October.

Cheers

 

[IanS]

Information from Yamaha UK is that it is just a new ECU and a couple of screws to fix it in place. No new sensor.

 

[timalan]

Me too. I finally talked to Steve. He sounded tired! I am on the list and so is the dealer I am talking to. He told me the dealers would all have parts..... I said OH! do you need to know what dealer I have been talking with also? So He has that also.

 

[painman]

When talking to the Technical Specialist a few days ago on the phone when I reported my problem on the 06, he said, "Yamaha has identified the problem with the 06 and the 07 as a starving issue". Makes me tend to agree with Jestals comments on fuel delivery mapping and the ECU. PM. ><>

If it's a "fuel starving" issue, whay does my bike drop to 18-20 MPG on the instant readout? :blink:

I don't know, but when my 06 surges/stalls it has been always on the downhill and my fuel readout has not decreased as you state yours does. But I think I read in another post where this is the case as well. And I think Jestals post made some good sense as to fuel delivery problems and the ECU in that this would make perfect sense that while you might be getting too much fuel delivery I could be getting too little. Point being fuel delivery is out of wack at elevation. Whatever the case, the 06 is not an "anomaly" as I think you mentioned too. So we'll just have to wait and see what the real outcome is here and hopefully we will have a fix no matter what symptoms or year is experienced. Take care, PM. <><