Armed Riders

[JimLor]

04FJR4ME - good points all. I would add that the most important part of the equation is inside your noggin' - if you aren't mentally prepared to shoot (don't have the "will"), then you outta leave the weapon home. And that decison is made long before any confrontation...

 

[Geezer]

A couple of things people have posted require clarification;

1) Although there is a 2nd ammendment right to bear arms it is interpreted differently by the various states. You can get a permit to carry in most states and that permit is recognized (reciprocity) in many other states, but don't assume - check before you carry across state lines.

2) You can not carry openly in every state. In NY it is called brandishing and it is not legal. If you are traveling to Mass. you are expected to turn your gun in at the border and pick it up on your way back home.

3) Laws vary by state about exactly where in that state you can carry. Some states allow shop owners to determine if they will allow firearms on their property. Some allow carry in bars and others do not.

4) According to federal law you can carry your handgun across state lines as long as you are legal in your state of origin and the state of your destination. But, you must have the gun locked securely and, in many states, the ammunition locked separately. That means you can't have the firearm ready for use while transporting it.

There are others but those are the ones that come to mind. When looking for information about carrying I normally start by looking at the

NRA website.

 

[Fencer]

Most people don't understand it is not carrying a weapon that is going to save your life as much as risking your life if you have one on you and don't know how to use it properly. If you are not trained in the use of handgun combat, chances are you will have your weapon taken away from you before you can use it on your attacker.
What's the risk of having a handgun on you, now your attacker have a handgun too if he takes it away from you.

Carrying a handgun is like owning a jet figther, it's great if you know how to use it under stressful condition, if not, chances are you will not live through it.

I highly recommend for anyone that is considering carrying a handgun to pratice with it once a month if not more, take a handgun combat class and know what to do with your handgun under stressful condition if it missfires or jams.

Understanding the safe distant your attacker needs to be for you to safely draw your weapon and discharge it is also critical.

We pratice handgun take away, and an instructor can take a handgun away from a student if he is less then 10-20 feet away which is pretty far if you think about it, you will not be able to draw your weapon fast enough to sucessfully aim/point and fire before your attacker is on top of you taking the gun away from you.

I carry when I ride, but I also understand that if I need to pull my weapon, I better be able to justify it in court or I won't be riding my FJR much longer if I live through it.

You also better be willing to take someone life if you are going to carry, or else the life you may take maybe your own.

04FJR4ME

I agree with most of your post and the fact that I have decide to carry means that I am willing to take a life if nessecary. If you are 10 to 20 feet away from me and running your mouth, you are not a threat and shooting you is not justifiable. But if you are pulling a weapon I will do my damndest? to do the same and end your life.

If I pull my gun out, it is not for show, or flash or to say "freeze". It is to go boom in a kill zone. If it has come to that point the Earth would probably be a better place without that individual.

I was raised that its ok to disagree or even disagree severely with one of the two parties going away from the disagreement not feeling "physically perfect". Go by each other a drink afterwards and discuss something else.

Unfortunatly, Most kids are not raised with the same values nowadays and rather than fight, if it came to that, they will pull a knife or gun. I just plan to be on the same playing field and hope to never use it. I live by " Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it"

Kinda the opposite for me right now. I need a motorcycle, but don't have one (two area rides this weekend) as I sold mine last weekend. Yes, I'm a waiter.

Which in turn gives me time to blow the crap out of stuff at the range.

 

[Centerline]

I carry on rides. .40 H&K USP or .44mag revolver.

 

[Feejer/Weejer man]

Dead men tell no tales and they can have my gun when they unwrap my cold dead fingers from around it!!!!

 

[04FJR4ME]

Just to add to all this, a good knife fighter can really do some damage to an over confident victim or aggressor that carries a gun.

A good video that is shown to us is pictures of dead cops that have their arms slashed and throat cut by suspects, and these cops was on the ready when this happens.

Most knife fighters are taught to slice and not stab a victim, until you view the videos, you will never think someone wearing a vest and armed can be killed so easily by someone carrying a knife.

Sometimes is just not enough to be willing to take a life, it is necessary for you to understand how to do it effectively and unfortunately, most people that carry a gun feel over confident and don't understand a gun is a tool, and if you do not understand how to use it properly under pressure, you might as well hand it over to your attacker, because he will have it one way or another.

Nothing makes you feel worst then an instructor taking your gun away while you are drawing it when you are mental ready for him to do so. So think about the guy that is just not prepared, what chance do you think you have against someone that have some training.

Guns are great against animal or when you are ready for someone and have your weapon already drawn, but if you have to compete with someone that is charging you and you have to find your holster and draw your weapon, you better be able to clear holster and fire in less then half of second or you might as well not try.

I guess a gun is like having a spare tire in your car, it's only good if you know how to utilize it properly.

By the way, having a conceal weapon is an advantage, advertising it is not such a great idea. Happy ridding!

 

[FJRocha]

There is a lot of chatter about "what if" scenarios... But, has anyone been in a situation where the use of a firearm was warranted? (Not including war combat)

Perhaps attack of wild animals at the camp site comes to mind?

 

[04FJR4ME]

Had lots of chances pulling my weapon on suspects, thank GOD it was not necessary to take a life.

I don't think most of us will feel and act the same after taking someone's life.

Scenarios is what we use to make our reflex / responds automatic so we don't have to think when we need to react immediately, there is never enough practice if you know what I mean.

 

[RonC]

Dead men tell no tales and they can have my gun when they unwrap my cold dead fingers from around it!!!!

Actually, dead men do tell a lot. It's amazing what detectives can glean from the evidence. They just caught those kids who burnt the churches in Alabama by matching the tire tread marks to the tires and type of SUV. If you are involved in a shooting, leaving the scene with a dead or wounded goblin lying there is probably the worst action you could do for your future well being.

That just makes it important to know, and know well, your state's carry and self defense laws. And, it also helps to know what to say and not to say to the LEO's after a shooting. Count on the fact that, even if you are not criminally charged, you'll probably spend $50-75,000 on attorney fees right after the shooting and when the goblin's family sues you in civil court. Some people pay a retainer to an attorney who specializes in self defense to serve as insurance for such an occurance.

I've taken military training, a CCW course, a 4 day handgun self dense course, and a two day home defense course. I've practiced what I have learned regularly. Still, I do not take the fact that I may be armed lightly or casually. It is an awesome responsibility. It means that I am willing to be verbally insulted and walk away. It means that I will do as much as possible to avoid or diffuse a situation before it comes to armed confrontation. However, I can now respond intuitively to a preceived attack on me or the people with me. But I will do everything in my power to avoid that confrontation.

Do I carry while traveling on my bike? Maybe.

Ron

 

[T120TT]

Well reasoned post. Too many people don't think it through to that degree. They certainly should. I like my Makarov. reliable and hot little round , plus not out that much if a cop confiscates it, as is the custom. A few weeks ago a local resident was cleaning his gun on his back porch and an off duty cop saw him. He was charged with inciting to riot. He hired a lawyer who got him off the hook but he's still trying to get his gun back. Probably never will.

 

[JimLor]

RonC - good post and I agree with you. I've had like training to you and understand that there's a huge difference between carrying a weapon and being able and willing to use a weapon. I would posit that most who carry are dipshits who do it make themselves feel like a big man and are basically incompetent in the use of a weapon - yup, that's what I think! I further think that there are few things more dangerous than a dipshit with a weapon.

 

[S_Palmer]

[

There is a lot of chatter about "what if" scenarios... But, has anyone been in a situation where the use of a firearm was warranted? (Not including war combat)

Not personaly but I have a friend who had to shoot a badger that was attacking one of his children inside a tent in the middle of the night, my son had to kill a cougar who was arguing over ownership of a trail. Yes I go armed in the woods, I'm even lery of walking the streets at night here, last year the police killed a cougar about 6 blocks from my house, there are sightings here all the time.

[

Actually, dead men do tell a lot. It's amazing what detectives can glean from the evidence. They just caught those kids who burnt the churches in Alabama by matching the tire tread marks to the tires and type of SUV. If you are involved in a shooting, leaving the scene with a dead or wounded goblin lying there is probably the worst action you could do for your future well being.

I thought it was interesting when I took a CCW class, one of the instructers, (the local DA) told us that if you were forced to kill a stranger, the result of a attempted mugging for instance, if there were no witnesses, to simply walk away.

Unless there is some connection between you the odds of getting caught were very slim, the odds of getting sued were very high.

Just food for thought

Steve

 

[650cent]

I thought it was interesting when I took a CCW class, one of the instructers, (the local DA) told us that if you were forced to kill a stranger, the result of a attempted mugging for instance, if there were no witnesses, to simply walk away.

Unless there is some connection between you the odds of getting caught were very slim, the odds of getting sued were very high.

That is what I have heard from a couple of LEO.

Bill

 

[RonC]

[

Actually, dead men do tell a lot. It's amazing what detectives can glean from the evidence. They just caught those kids who burnt the churches in Alabama by matching the tire tread marks to the tires and type of SUV. If you are involved in a shooting, leaving the scene with a dead or wounded goblin lying there is probably the worst action you could do for your future well being.

I thought it was interesting when I took a CCW class, one of the instructers, (the local DA) told us that if you were forced to kill a stranger, the result of a attempted mugging for instance, if there were no witnesses, to simply walk away.

Unless there is some connection between you the odds of getting caught were very slim, the odds of getting sued were very high.

Just food for thought

Steve

I wonder how often the 'no witness' scenario plays out. Where I live, just outside of Denver, CO, it is the rare place you can go without having witnesses. Even in a dark alley, windowshades will rise when a shot is heard. People will notice a car leaving the area. It is a low crime area, so anything unusual is gets a reaction.

If you leave the site of the self-defense shooting and there was an unnoticed witness, even to you entering your car right after the bang, and the local constabulary catches up to you, I hate to think of what would be the outcome. It just seems very risky.

In Denver, they catch the perps after drive-by shootings, even at night. There always seems to be someone around to tell the tale. If you are in a very rural area, then there might be the chance of no witnesses. But then, your risk of being attacked are smaller anyway.

Note on the animal incidences: I always carry when hiking and camping, and always have. There was a mountain lion reported in Boulder, CO back yards just last night - and a great video taken by someone from their house. It was a big, healthy cat.

Ron

 

[galxy5]

I question the merits of leaving a body with my bullets in it ,, security cams and the like will catch you every time or someone saw you do it !!

I have been confonted by would be theives ,, looking for cash, watches, rings and other types of personal items ,, I carry cash from my business to deposit boxes ,, I also carry a Tracker ACP.45 ,, never had to fire on anyone ,, yet !!! just showing it has made them back off !! I also carry a Blackmoore Tactical Dirk ,, a very effective last resort weapon ,,

but if that day does come I will call the Police to report it ,, unsolved murder is the bain of Police work ,, gang banger or redneck ,, it's my life or their's and I'm going home !!!!!

Last night I was coming home from a friends house and was stopped by the county LEO ,, driving my '86 Dodge project truck ,, as soon as the officer came to my window I handed him my OL and registration thru the vent window ,, and told him I was carrying ,,

he looked at me blankly and said "What??" I said again " I am carrying ,, I have a loaded pistol on the seat and an unloaded shotgun in a case" he says "OOHHH"!!!

I asked him if I could step out so he could retrive it ,, I did ,, he did ,, and then I asked him why he was stopping me ?? my tail light is faded and looks like it's broken ,, he asked me if I had a conceal permit ,, I said yes ,, but it is not concealed it's on the seat in plain view ,, so he takes the pistol to his car calls it in ,, comes back asks to see the shot gun ,, he had never seen a 870 Magnum Special Porpose with a folding stock ,, calls in the # ,, they were checking to see if they were stolen ,, after about 5 min he came back to the truck handed me my pistol and bid me a good night !!

the kicker is that 30 min after I got home I was watching some news and there came a knock at the door ,, it was the LEO ,, he smiled and handed me my OL and registration ,, he said in the excitment he had failed to give it back ,,

It just goes to show that if you are not nervous and don't do anything wrong you are good to go !! he was more nervous than me ,, I knew my rights ,, did the correct thing and all was ok ,, he also did not give me a ticket for my tail light !!

I just love the Old Dominion

 

[evil_henchman]

Well I have never even held a hand gun. Not legal in these parts. But I would like to see what it is like to fire one. I mean how hard can it be. All 3 Charlie's Angels could hit a dime from a football field away!!
Think there are any places to try that around Reno when I am at WFO?

gypsy

Check this out:

https://mustangrange.com/flash/machgun.htm

Maybe a group outing for WFO? Kind of expensive but for those who've never fired machine guns (and want to) it's worth it. Uncle Sam paid me to fire all kinds of cool stuff in the suck so no way I'd pay.

Do I carry while riding? Who knows.

Would it be legal if I did? Who cares. Some laws shouldn't be obeyed under any circumstances. (G. Gordon Liddy)

 

[toophast]

BTW  you do not have to be carrying a firearm to be armed ,,,, my tactical Dirk is quite effective !!

galxy5

Be carefull with the Dirk

VA code specifies knives with two edges (dirks) and "butterfly" type knives and throwing stars (and something else I can't remember) as being illegal to carry; concealed or not. We do not have any restrictions regarding blade length like some states do (exept in federal buildings where I think it is no > 3 inches).

With that said, next time we meet remind me to show you the "dirk" that's never far from my hand :assasin:

Toophast

 

[galxy5]

as the henchman said ,,

Would it be legal if I did? Who cares !!!
I carry it in the open most of the time !!!

 

[04FJR4ME]

I thought it was interesting when I took a CCW class, one of the instructers, (the local DA) told us that if you were forced to kill a stranger, the result of a attempted mugging for instance, if there were no witnesses, to simply walk away.Unless there is some connection between you the odds of getting caught were very slim, the odds of getting sued were very high.

That is what I have heard from a couple of LEO.

I can't disagree more, if you shoot someone, you have the duty to call for help and see if the suspect is still living! You will be charged with homicide if you do nothing after the gunfight and let the suspect die. If you can't justify shooting someone then you have no right to shoot them, and if you can, you should not worry to much about calling in the LEO and medical help. It will probably cost you a lot for legal fee no matter what.

Last night I was coming home from a friends house and was stopped by the county LEO ,, driving my '86 Dodge project truck ,, as soon as the officer came to my window I handed him my OL and registration thru the vent window ,, and told him I was carrying ,,
he looked at me blankly and said "What??" I said again " I am carrying ,, I have a loaded pistol on the seat and an unloaded shotgun in a case" he says "OOHHH"!!!

We have always told civilians that own a CCW not to show or mentioned they are carrying a gun when being interviewed by LEO's. There is nothing worst then tasting the ground while being investigated by the LEO to make sure your CCW is for real. Most civilian carry weapons without CCW, and as long as you don't make any crazy move towards the LEO and if your weapon is properly concealed, then you should not have any problems if it is a routine traffic stop. The only time you get caught with having a weapon on you if it is improperly concealed or when you brandish one.

Now if you have been pulled over for DUI and you are being asked to step out of your vehicle, and you know you are probably going to get a free night stay at the county expense, then do tell the LEO that you have a CCW permit and not to panic when he finds your sidearm. You will probably be on the ground faster then you can finish your complete sentence, but is better then the LEO finding it without you telling him or her.

I have been confonted by would be theives ,, looking for cash, watches, rings and other types of personal items ,, I carry cash from my business to deposit boxes ,, I also carry a Tracker ACP.45 ,, never had to fire on anyone ,, yet !!! just showing it has made them back off !! I also carry a Blackmoore Tactical Dirk ,, a very effective last resort weapon ,,

The trick is to carry two wallets, one with a bunch of ones and exp credit cards, if someone confront you and demand your wallet, give him that one and don't hand it to them, throw it or drop it on the ground, this will give you time to run or fight depending on your ability. Most these guys are looking for money to get a fix and probably will not chase you if they have your wallet.

Just my two cents worth

 

[galxy5]

could not disagree more !!!!!

by alerting the LEO that you are armed before to get out of the car/truck/whatever puts them in a situation that is clear ,, they know ,, you know ,, they do not come on it by accident ,, just ask a LEO ,, they will tell you it is better to tell them in advance ,, by not disclosing up front you get treated like a criminal with something to hide !!!!!!!

as to two wallets ,, never ,, I carry cash in bank deposit bags ,,