FJR engineers embarrassed by Concours 14

[HYCLE]

Still find myself shaking the right hand off to my side and flexing my fingers trying to get some blood to flow, or some ****** thing. = :big_boss:

Sounds like you need a nerve conduction test to determine if you have carpal tunnel syndrome. I had those symptoms while bicycle racing, then I had surgery on both wrists. Its all good now. No problems on the FJR.

 

[FJRMGM]

Add me to this club - "Wow I must be completely f'ed in the head because I am very happy with my FJR and find the new connie totally unimpressive".

That exhaust can on the new Connie brings new meaning to the words "butt ugly".

 

[bramfrank]

My Connie was buzzy, my FJR has some vibration - and also some drive-line vibration at high speeds on top of the motor issues.

Having ridden the ZZR1200, the ninja 1200. the Hyabusa and the ZX14 I have to say that with the exception of the Suzuki, all of the aforementioned 'larger displacement inline 4s' were smoother than the FJR is.

The vibes don't tire me. They don't bother me. But they ARE there and there is no good reason for it if the others managed to get their acts together.

 

[clutchless1]

Isn't competition good for this industry? The new Connie is certainly a beautiful bike, but how many years did the other Connie go without any makeover or changes before they designed their Yamaha FJR killer? I'm sure the people at Kawasaki finally figured all of the juice had been squeezed from the sales and pofit of the older design that they finally had to sit down and said either we redesign a new more refined cutting edge Connie, or we just get out of the Sport Tourer business and let Yamaha have it.

I will say this, you can be absolutely sure this bike although a very nice looking bike won't come to the masses without it's share of design flaws. There isn't a bike out here with the technology these newer bikes have that doesn't have it's little problems that wll need to be sorted out re-engineered and repaired. If you don't believe this, go to any of the other Sport Touring sites to read for yourself, they all have their share of nagging little demon's.

All of this combined will be the surge the people at Yamaha need to get back to the drawing board and produce a more beautiful bike that will handle even better, and vibrate less. With the Introduction of the new Connie, the ball is now in play and has been served, now it's up to the Manufacturers who want to stay in the game to respond. It's either return the ball back to the Kawasaki side of the court, or walk off of it and go home. I personally don't think Yamaha will do that. The up side is we will all benifit from this competition, the down side is now we'll have to decide which bike we want, and how much it's going to cost us if we want to best there is. Once the new products are there for us to admire and buy, it will then be our turn on the same court, either get in the game or ride home on what you brought. Ah, Competition, it's a great thing (in the end, it cost us all money)

By the way, all of the Connie hype is fine...........But does anyone know what this Jewel cost? I been reading about it for a year now, I've seen it at the bike show in January (you couldn't get near it, the bike was 10 feet in the air, what was up with that?) but I have yet to hear of the price?

My 2 cents worth, C1

 

[keithaba]

CM: Have you ridden the c-14 or are you just going on reports? If there is one thing I have found, reports are very subjective. Without some measurement (which I don't know how you'd measure vibration) it is hard to compare.

If you have ridden it and it seems noticeably smoother, than they did a good job. I'm not necesarrily sure the FJR engineers should be ashamed, but certainly they should know what the next step for improvement will be on the GEN III.

 

[Jaycen]

My GF likes the vibration. :grin:

I thought we were talking about FJR's :blink:

 

[otrfjr]

all these bad vibes about the vibes are bad for our collective karma: we'll get metaphysical carpal tunnel.

all this ogling of Connie's can is suspicious: what, you're gonna play grabass with a hot can?

all this worry about how we look on our bikes, how our bikes look, does this bike make my can look big....

 

[Constant Mesh]

No, I haven't ridden a C-14. From the small variety of rider reports one thing caught my attention -- the engine is very smooth. I've never heard anyone say that about the FJR.

I'll get a definitive comparison of the FJR and C-14 from Jerold at D&H. D&H is a Yamaha and Kawasaki dealer. While Jerold only rides each new bike about 10 miles this should be enough for a rough comparison of engine vibration. Also Jerold will have a comparison from the other in-line 4s in the Yamaha and Kawasaki line-ups.

These sport tourer engines should get a lot of design attention in minimizing vibration. These engines are produced with minimal changes for many years. A great design can be enjoyed by many customers over many years. A good design can be accepted with minimal complaints by many customers over many years.

 

[skifrik]

with a little work, my FJR is as smooth as silk... and I ride many different bikes

 

[Jaycen]

No, I haven't ridden a C-14. From the small variety of rider reports one thing caught my attention -- the engine is very smooth. I've never heard anyone say that about the FJR.
I'll get a definitive comparison of the FJR and C-14 from Jerold at D&H. D&H is a Yamaha and Kawasaki dealer. While Jerold only rides each new bike about 10 miles this should be enough for a rough comparison of engine vibration. Also Jerold will have a comparison from the other in-line 4s in the Yamaha and Kawasaki line-ups.

These sport tourer engines should get a lot of design attention in minimizing vibration. These engines are produced with minimal changes for many years. A great design can be enjoyed by many customers over many years. A good design can be accepted with minimal complaints by many customers over many years.

My father just bought a leftover 2006 GW. I rode it, I was disapointed. I actually think my FJR is smoother than that thing. Soooooo CM, my FJR engine is smooth as silk. Now you've heard it.

 

[Wicked Webby]

CM,

Well it WORK!! You got a bunch of people reading and typing on your worthless THREAD(s)!! You should apply for that TELEMARKETER job you've been dreaming of...... Or you could just continue your SPAMMING hobby here on the FORUM. But either way...GREAT JOB!! Way to go!! You really are a expert at talking about a whole lot of nothing and not knowing what the hell your talking about!!!

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK....TARD! :blink:

 

[GunMD]

CM,
Well it WORK!! You got a bunch of people reading and typing on your worthless THREAD(s)!! You should apply for that TELEMARKETER job you've been dreaming of...... Or you could just continue your SPAMMING hobby here on the FORUM. But either way...GREAT JOB!! Way to go!! You really are a expert at talking about a whole lot of nothing and not knowing what the hell your talking about!!!

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK....TARD! :blink:

Easy there Wicked...your panties seem to be riding up into your *** crack. Up until your post I thought that this was a fairly civil, although opinionated, topic. Just because you don't agree with CM doesn't give you the right to personally attack him (in violation of Forum guideline #5, by the way). Chill out. Back off. It's just a web site.

Now I don't personally know CM, but if you'll take a few minutes to review his posts on this Forum you'll see that your "spam" accusation is way off base. He contributes technical information in nearly every thread he participates in.

EDIT: Then again, maybe I'm wrong...perhaps Wicked has a personal friendship with CM and this is how they banter... :dntknw:

 

[markjenn]

Silly premise to this thread. I'd be "embarrased" if I started it.

Two points:

First, we don't really have any back-to-back experiences that say, on average, the C14 is significantly smoother than the FJR. The early reports have been mixed - some saying it is very smooth, others saying it buzzes pretty good at certain RPMs. Let's wait for the first comparision tests before lashing out like this.

Secnod, technology always get better and the idea that any inline-4 with dual balance shafts, if properly engineered, should be just as smooth as all the others is a total crock. That's like saying that anyone who has produced inline-4 car engine for the past twenty years should be "embarrased" if they haven't matched the power output of Honda's latest VTEC wonder. The C14 is a six-year newer design and in these six years materials, metallurgy, computer modeling,machine tools, etc. have all improved. As well, it incorporates some innovative new features like VVT and the new shaft drive which change the vibration characteristics. Even the way the engine mounts to the frame can have a tremendous effect on perceived vibration when you're dealing with bikes as basically smooth as the C14 and FJR.

All bikes are compromises between literally thousands of factors. The Yamaha struck a great compromise back in 2002 and it appears the C14 is striking a great compromise now and since it is newer, it probably is going to be improved in a lot of areas, perhaps vibration is one of them. But the idea that Yamaha dropped the ball six-years ago is patently ridiculous.

- Mark

 

[dhalen32]

CM:

This is the natural order of things. Yamaha raised the bar with the FJR and now it's Kawasaki's turn. This will benefit us consumers in the long run. The FJR is certainly nothing for an Engineer to be ashamed for having designed. As far as vibration is concerned it is all relative. Until you have ridden them both how can make an informed judgement? While you may feel your FJR is buzzy. I believe mine to be smooth as can be ... you see my other bikes are both Buells! :blink:

Dave

 

[Bounce]

Mark, one more thing to consider is that a 10 mile test ride won't tell anyone anything serious about the bike. it's not broken in, it's not a long enough time in the saddle, and on and on.

and, while jerold is a nice guy and an excellent dealership, i'd recommend you take his advice with a bit of salt. he's the one who was repeating to me all those myths about synthetic oils and such when i was taking delivery of my FJR back in the first wave (causes seals to leak, etc.).

 

[GunMD]

IRT Yamaha reacting to the C-14's platform, let us not forget that it didn't really take Yamaha all that long to implement some improvements on the FJR. The Gen II bikes got the linked brake systems and standard ABS along with some fixes for the heat issue. Especially with the heat fixes I'd say that Yamaha did so in direct response to rider complaints. That's pretty impressive if you ask me. If they'll respond to owners / riders then I can only imagine that they'll respond to competition from Kawi in pretty short order (assuming that there ends up being something worth responding to).

.02

 

[keithaba]

I can only imagine that they'll respond to competition from Kawi in pretty short order

Only if the Kawi sells well, and Yamaha marketers realize they are losing some sales to the new C-14. I do think it will snake up some sales considering it's much cooler than the ST1300, and a lot cheaper than the Beemers.

 

[Ignacio]

I'm just glad I bought my new watch.

Only thing that worries me more than allegedly slacking Japanese Engineers......are FJRForum Arm-chair CEOs with nothing but stinky bait. :****:

 

[FJR Gary]

Baloney! The engineers don't have any excuses for not offering a smoother engine. Both bikes have the same engine configuration -- in-line 4.
If it turns out that the Concours engine is noticeably smoother then obviously Yamaha's engineers dropped the ball. They had an opportunity with a clean sheet design to do it right. The twin balancer design is a proven, established technology for in-line 4 engines.

Particularly for a touring machine where a multi-hour ride is not uncommon any unnecessary vibration causes additional rider fatigue.

Did they just tack on the balancer shafts so they could say they were offering a smooth engine?

Yeah CM... You should sell that POS Yami of yours and get a C14. you'll be lucky if you get anything for that FJR, its so poorly designed. Tell you what, if it has low miles and is clean I'll give you 50 bucks for your POS but that's the best your going to get for that oversized vibrator :glare:

C'mon Kevin. Tell us how you really feel :huh:

 

[SkooterG]

Silly premise to this thread. I'd be "embarrased" if I started it.
Two points:

First, we don't really have any back-to-back experiences that say, on average, the C14 is significantly smoother than the FJR. The early reports have been mixed - some saying it is very smooth, others saying it buzzes pretty good at certain RPMs. Let's wait for the first comparision tests before lashing out like this.

Secnod, technology always get better and the idea that any inline-4 with dual balance shafts, if properly engineered, should be just as smooth as all the others is a total crock. That's like saying that anyone who has produced inline-4 car engine for the past twenty years should be "embarrased" if they haven't matched the power output of Honda's latest VTEC wonder. The C14 is a six-year newer design and in these six years materials, metallurgy, computer modeling,machine tools, etc. have all improved. As well, it incorporates some innovative new features like VVT and the new shaft drive which change the vibration characteristics. Even the way the engine mounts to the frame can have a tremendous effect on perceived vibration when you're dealing with bikes as basically smooth as the C14 and FJR.

All bikes are compromises between literally thousands of factors. The Yamaha struck a great compromise back in 2002 and it appears the C14 is striking a great compromise now and since it is newer, it probably is going to be improved in a lot of areas, perhaps vibration is one of them. But the idea that Yamaha dropped the ball six-years ago is patently ridiculous.

- Mark

I'm just glad I bought my new watch.

Only thing that worries me more than allegedly slacking Japanese Engineers......are FJRForum Arm-chair CEOs with nothing but stinky bait. :****:

Hmmmm...................tough call.

As to which is the best post of this thread. Score Mark one for offering up a proper perspective, and score Iggy one for including a picture in his post, cuz i down't reed suh gwood.