FJR engineers embarrassed by Concours 14

[twowheelnut]

From the small variety of rider reports one thing caught my attention -- the engine is very smooth. I've never heard anyone say that about the FJR.

Um, I believe I did:

Besides, me thinks the FJR is pretty damn smooth as it is. I think all in all, the two bikes are pretty much on equal ground overall, which makes me wonder why Kawasaki didn't go balls to the wall and just put the smack-down on everyone else. :dntknw:

 

[gski02]

Silly premise to this thread. I'd be "embarrased" if I started it.
Two points:

First, we don't really have any back-to-back experiences that say, on average, the C14 is significantly smoother than the FJR. The early reports have been mixed - some saying it is very smooth, others saying it buzzes pretty good at certain RPMs. Let's wait for the first comparision tests before lashing out like this.

Secnod, technology always get better and the idea that any inline-4 with dual balance shafts, if properly engineered, should be just as smooth as all the others is a total crock. That's like saying that anyone who has produced inline-4 car engine for the past twenty years should be "embarrased" if they haven't matched the power output of Honda's latest VTEC wonder. The C14 is a six-year newer design and in these six years materials, metallurgy, computer modeling,machine tools, etc. have all improved. As well, it incorporates some innovative new features like VVT and the new shaft drive which change the vibration characteristics. Even the way the engine mounts to the frame can have a tremendous effect on perceived vibration when you're dealing with bikes as basically smooth as the C14 and FJR.

All bikes are compromises between literally thousands of factors. The Yamaha struck a great compromise back in 2002 and it appears the C14 is striking a great compromise now and since it is newer, it probably is going to be improved in a lot of areas, perhaps vibration is one of them. But the idea that Yamaha dropped the ball six-years ago is patently ridiculous.

- Mark

I'll add some additional to Mark's. Here's a link https://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index....ic,11122.0.html on the C14, again from an initial test drive.

I browsed through the comments and holy s batman, not everyone likes everything on the bike! Some don't like the bags, others the big pipe, yada yada yada...and according to the link....it get's a little toasty on your feet. Give it a year. I'll stick with my FJR, especially if this is the best they could do after 20+ years.

g

 

[Jaycen]

Mabey the sales guys at D&D are just saying this in hopes that all the FJR guys come running to trade in for the connies. Mabey we shold wait for an unbiased opinion to come along.

 

[Constant Mesh]

Jerold at D&H has some atypical ideas about tire pressures, cause of FJR valve ticking, etc. But it doesn't matter who you are if you ride several samples of a bike model over a period of time you'll know how the engine/seat/foot peg/handlebars vibrations compare to a different bike model which you've also ridden 100s of samples over several years.

I don't believe the D&H folks market their business all that much. They attracted FJR sales by their aggressive pricing. And forums like this one brought customers to them. As far as I know they don't even have an internet web site. They must have splurged when they got their first toll-free telephone access.

So I doubt they'll be marketing the new Concours all that aggressively, if at all.

I think Jerold will offer his unbiased 'seat of the pants' impressions of the new Concours once he's ridden a few sample units, even if his road time on each bike is only 10 or so miles.

 

[FJRay]

I have a 1967 Royal Enfield if any of you experts would like to experience what vibration is all about. It puts a whole new look on vibration but in its own way just as fun as the FJR. :yahoo:

 

[cctxfjr]

been reading some of the other sites and lots of discussion about smooth motor and smooth shifting on the new connie also lots of talk about excessive motor heat-I think the FJR motor could be smoother and the trans shifts rough although it seems to be getting better as I put more miles on bike-but I feel no excessive heat issues with my 06-most all mechanical issues can be addressed just takes engineering R&D which requires money allocations from management.

 

[exskibum]

I have a 1967 Royal Enfield if any of you experts would like to experience what vibration is all about. It puts a whole new look on vibration but in its own way just as fun as the FJR. :yahoo:

I hear you because I had a '69 BSA Thunderbolt, and I couldn't get friends on a '65 Sportster and '47 Knucklehead to trade with me even for a few minutes on one 300 mile ride. I was numb to the shoulders and was only 21 at the time. Phhhhffffttttt to those who say the Feejer vibrates!

 

[RatoneMuerto]

IF you were riding back in the 60s and 70s, one can only imagine the ***** fest you pitched at the quality of motorcycle engineering then.

You know I was riding back then and about the only decent affordable fast commuting machines were Yamaha or Honda based.If you had a Harley then you needed to keep an oil pan under it,the castings and electrics on Brits were always a maybe and the only good long distance low maintenance runner was a Honda CB750 or BMW R series which if you had one you were considered to be riding a Rolex.It is funny how time changes everything and either adapt or die.My Ford has a Yamaha engine,my Yamaha is 25% owned by Toyota,my Chevy truck is really an Isuzu,my Suzuki is made by Hyosung with a rebadging and almost all the electrical components in any modern vehicle are either Taiwanese or Chinese and a Harley is ASSEMBLED in America.It's components come from all over the world.Yea I might like the new C14,still have a soft spot for HD but my G1 still has about 80k to go before I retire it.I would like to see if my G1 will remain as trouble free as a GL or RT

 

[radman]

I hear you because I had a '69 BSA Thunderbolt, and I couldn't get friends on a '65 Sportster and '47 Knucklehead to trade with me even for a few minutes on one 300 mile ride. I was numb to the shoulders and was only 21 at the time. Phhhhffffttttt to those who say the Feejer vibrates!

66, and I still can't feel my hands.

 

[Lake Powell]

If it just had a bigger exhaust can, I'd be so there!

Oh No, I have can envy :blink: :blink:

 

[Bounce]

Jerold at D&H has some atypical ideas about tire pressures, cause of FJR valve ticking, etc. But it doesn't matter who you are if you ride several samples of a bike model over a period of time you'll know how the engine/seat/foot peg/handlebars vibrations compare to a different bike model which you've also ridden 100s of samples over several years.

which, in the given example, means that he has a valid comparison of bikes with 10 miles or less on them. fine as far as it goes, but that's just not very far at all. if a 10 mile sample is all you need, then you ride a lot less than most around here.

 

[cctxfjr]

IF you were riding back in the 60s and 70s, one can only imagine the ***** fest you pitched at the quality of motorcycle engineering then.

You know I was riding back then and about the only decent affordable fast commuting machines were Yamaha or Honda based.If you had a Harley then you needed to keep an oil pan under it,the castings and electrics on Brits were always a maybe and the only good long distance low maintenance runner was a Honda CB750 or BMW R series which if you had one you were considered to be riding a Rolex.It is funny how time changes everything and either adapt or die.My Ford has a Yamaha engine,my Yamaha is 25% owned by Toyota,my Chevy truck is really an Isuzu,my Suzuki is made by Hyosung with a rebadging and almost all the electrical components in any modern vehicle are either Taiwanese or Chinese and a Harley is ASSEMBLED in America.It's components come from all over the world.Yea I might like the new C14,still have a soft spot for HD but my G1 still has about 80k to go before I retire it.I would like to see if my G1 will remain as trouble free as a GL or RT

I use to ride an R69S BMW in the late sixtys/early seventys and your right in its day it was the touring machine to have (like a model T compared to current touring bikes) and I rode many miles on it-- I also had an XL sporster which leaked oil everywhere always iffy on starting and something always cracked and fell off on a trip.

 

[blueman]

When I owned my connie vibes were an issue that could be minimized with some grips, bar ends ect. It was a huge issue in the Connie forums and what to do reduce vibes. I am sure the new Connie is a much smoother bike. It is interesting that the Connie evoluted into a much larger motor "1000cc to 1400cc" than the Yamaha "1200cc to 1300".

 

[Joe2Lmaker]

...the Yamaha FJR engineers should be embarrassed. ...

I think we'll be the one's who are embarrassed, as this will be the view we most often have of the C-14:

 

[cctxfjr]

If it just had a bigger exhaust can, I'd be so there!


Oh No, I have can envy :blink: :blink:

The ugly muffler is a postive thing in that the cats are inside and its heavy-the aftermarket people will be all over that and you can lose the ugly-a lot of weight and the cat heat with a simple muffler change and ecm jump or remap

 

[rayban]

I'm sorry, but one thing has never changed about Kaw's supposedly grand engineering shop...

Kaw engineers monster engines.

Given.

Kaw doesn't usually match up their power plants well to their suspensions or drive trains.

Given as well.

Kaw dresses their rides in cheaper quality exteriors, but think they compensate by giving those pieces funky or futuristic looking lines.

Given.

But what Kaw still does that is so f'ing unforgiveable is that Kaw *STILL*, 30 years since the first Kaw model I owned, Kaw STILL uses the cheapest-quality hardware in their assemblies of any of the makes out there. They buy hardware so soft that you often dare not truly torque-wrench bolts to spec because you KNOW they're gonna sheer off the head. They buy screws that you KNOW are gonna seize in their spot, due to material selection and applicaiton, and then have a head so soft that you'll shred it into a security screwhead in no time flat and have to break out the extraction tool. They still think that adding rubber dampers everywhere solves fit mismatches and outright buzz problems (ask original concours owns how their hands felt after more than 20 minutes ride).

Claiming that Kaw is some superior engineering shop is the biggest juvenile pile of crap I've seen trolled on this forum to date. Yam is far from perfect, I still feel they engineeer a step below Honda, but I also think Honda designs pigs these days and overcharges worst of all brands out there because they can.

Finally, judge with your eyes. Count the number of Kaws on a mixed group ride. Count the number on Connies on a sport group ride. Then count the FJR's. Nuf said, junior...

 

[exskibum]

Claiming that Kaw is some superior engineering shop is the biggest juvenile pile of crap I've seen trolled on this forum to date. Yam is far from perfect, I still feel they engineeer a step below Honda, but I also think Honda designs pigs these days and overcharges worst of all brands out there because they can.

[SIZE=14pt]GUNNY![/SIZE]

 

[Ignacio]

I think we'll be the one's who are embarrassed, as this will be the view we most often have of the C-14:

In a studio with excellent lighting?

I'll risk it.

 

[Mike-H]

I went for a short ride on the new Kaw C14 yesterday (just on city streets).....nice bike....but it didn't impress me to the point that I'm going to sell my FJR anytime soon....so to those that must have the latest & greatest....buy it (the C14) & quit bitching about the FJR.....FYI....I'm going riding this weekend with the owner of the new C14 if our timetables allow....updates to follow....

 

[one day]

I'm embarrased to say I read all of this 'embarrased by Concours' thread.

It reminds me of riding the school bus in the country and watching the farmboys throw down over whose Daddy has a better tractor. :yahoo: