FJR engineers embarrassed by Concours 14

[Silent]

I think we'll be the one's who are embarrassed, as this will be the view we most often have of the C-14:

In a studio with excellent lighting?

I'll risk it.

And here I was thinking, as we pass it parked on the side of the road

 

[markjenn]

But what Kaw still does that is so f'ing unforgiveable is that Kaw *STILL*, 30 years since the first Kaw model I owned, Kaw STILL uses the cheapest-quality hardware in their assemblies of any of the makes out there. They buy hardware so soft that you often dare not truly torque-wrench bolts to spec because you KNOW they're gonna sheer off the head. They buy screws that you KNOW are gonna seize in their spot, due to material selection and applicaiton, and then have a head so soft that you'll shred it into a security screwhead in no time flat and have to break out the extraction tool. They still think that adding rubber dampers everywhere solves fit mismatches and outright buzz problems (ask original concours owns how their hands felt after more than 20 minutes ride).

Thirty years ago, you could make sweeping generalizations like this and have a modicum of truth, but with globalization today, you'd be hard-pressed to find any functional difference in the quality and fit/finiish between any of the big-four Japanese mfgs. Honda, for example, used to be the only manufacturer that would route wiring inside handlebars - everybody else would just zip-tie the harness to the bars. But not any more - they all do things basically the same.

But now that all the big-four mfgs use basically the same vendors for sub-assemblies and even produce some of their bikes on the same production lines, you'd be hard-pressed to find any difference in things like hardware. Disasemble a FJR and a C14 side-by-side and I bet you'd find the hardware in similar applications is exactly the same. To think there is a significant difference is about like thinking that a Sony TV has better components than a JVC. Among the big-four Japanese mfg's today, differentiation is through styling, design, features, and marketing, not inherent quality.

- Mark

 

[painman]

But what Kaw still does that is so f'ing unforgiveable is that Kaw *STILL*, 30 years since the first Kaw model I owned, Kaw STILL uses the cheapest-quality hardware in their assemblies of any of the makes out there. They buy hardware so soft that you often dare not truly torque-wrench bolts to spec because you KNOW they're gonna sheer off the head. They buy screws that you KNOW are gonna seize in their spot, due to material selection and applicaiton, and then have a head so soft that you'll shred it into a security screwhead in no time flat and have to break out the extraction tool. They still think that adding rubber dampers everywhere solves fit mismatches and outright buzz problems (ask original concours owns how their hands felt after more than 20 minutes ride).

Thirty years ago, you could make sweeping generalizations like this and have a modicum of truth, but with globalization today, you'd be hard-pressed to find any functional difference in the quality and fit/finiish between any of the big-four Japanese mfgs. Honda, for example, used to be the only manufacturer that would route wiring inside handlebars - everybody else would just zip-tie the harness to the bars. But not any more - they all do things basically the same.

But now that all the big-four mfgs use basically the same vendors for sub-assemblies and even produce some of their bikes on the same production lines, you'd be hard-pressed to find any difference in things like hardware. Disasemble a FJR and a C14 side-by-side and I bet you'd find the hardware in similar applications is exactly the same. To think there is a significant difference is about like thinking that a Sony TV has better components than a JVC. Among the big-four Japanese mfg's today, differentiation is through styling, design, features, and marketing, not inherent quality.

- Mark

I'm no expert and don't pretend to be but checking out the Kawi's they seem to have a "cheap" feel compared to the other bikes. Also the people I know that have had Kawi's seem to have more problems than the other big companies. I must admit though Kawi is doing better and the new bikes are a step above recent years. And I do like the ZX-14. Just .02 peso's from a distant observer. PM. <><

 

[ELP_JC]

With all that cheap-looking plastic, and ugly styling from 20 years ago (I see it as a GrandAm in 2 wheels), which is what everybody can see, I don't think FJR engineers are embarrassed at all. By the same token, some might think the FJR is ugly as hell, but that doesn't bother me one bit; as long as I like it, that's all that matters IMO. And the same goes by the folks who like the new C14. I was just giving my opinion, as the posted obviously wanted to stir the pot.

I wouldn't buy that bike, even if it ran 10 times better than the FJR, but that's just me. But I wouldn't buy ANY brand new bike in the market either, so I just want to make sure I don't come across as a Kawasaki hater, because I'm not. I've never owned one, but the ZX6R I rode at Superbike School was incredible.

And this comes from a guy with ZERO brand loyalty; every bike has to stand on its own merits with me. Having said that, Am I happy with my FJR right now? No way. The surging my bike has is disappointing at best, but it's a fantastic machine otherwise. No bike is perfect. And there's just no way in hell the C14 won't have similar (or even worse) problems, at least initially, so I learned to expect problems on every bike, and deal with them as much as I can without involving a dealer.

If Yamaha doesn't step to the plate, then this will be my first and last Yamaha ever. If I have to sell the FJR, I'd get a VFR. Again, not perfect for me: should run flawlessly by now, but it has a chain, and lacks power. There's always a compromise. Others rather compromise with reliability just to have the newest toy in town; to each its own.

The important thing is we all are part of the same family. Later gang.

JC

 

[shokdimn]

I went for a short ride on the new Kaw C14 yesterday (just on city streets).....nice bike....but it didn't impress me to the point that I'm going to sell my FJR anytime soon....so to those that must have the latest & greatest....buy it (the C14) & quit bitching about the FJR.....FYI....I'm going riding this weekend with the owner of the new C14 if our timetables allow....updates to follow....

Hi Mike,

On your short ride did you get a chance to cruise at interstate speeds of 65, 70, or 75mph? Lftt updates.

 

[Orient_Express]

I likes the old concours... :blink:

 

[jayke]

I loved my 01 Concours too.... right up to the point I let the clutch out for the first time on my FJR!

 

[Mike-H]

I went for a short ride on the new Kaw C14 yesterday (just on city streets).....nice bike....but it didn't impress me to the point that I'm going to sell my FJR anytime soon....so to those that must have the latest & greatest....buy it (the C14) & quit bitching about the FJR.....FYI....I'm going riding this weekend with the owner of the new C14 if our timetables allow....updates to follow....

Hi Mike,

On your short ride did you get a chance to cruise at interstate speeds of 65, 70, or 75mph? Lftt updates.

No hiways....just around a block or two....only got it up to 60 mph.....but it did get there in a hurry....if the ride pans out over the weekend I will post....

 

[yamaholic]

I agree with Reno...22 years and what did Kawi do the original C to improve it? Not much!

And yes, 7 years after Yami introduced the FJR they finally respond.

Who is the leader and who is the follower here?

Mark my words, the C14 will be the exact same bike less BNG (Bold New Graphics) in 5 years. Kawa simply does not update their bikes regularly. Competition bikes are a different story, I'm talking about everything except the ZX and KX series.

Word

 

[PA1195]

Where I live I buy the Dealer support with the Bike...owned two Kawa's out of 24 in 47 yrs...GPZ550 and Concours...excellent bikes for me, and many good miles and memories with each...but, so-so Dealer...My FJR isn't perfect, but it's backed up by excellent local folks that both ride and race...the C-14 will be a hoot no doubt...but I'm not risking the overall Yamaha service to change brands and proven support.

Gary in Fairbanks

 

[06INDIXIE]

I'm on my way to the Kawi dealer this a.m. for a test ride just to see if this new kid on the block is the real deal or not, if it is I'll probably consider buying one, if it isn't then so be it I'll be content with what I have. Jaycen, if your FJR is smoother than a Goldwing please ship your FJR back to Yamaha so they can make everyone of them exactly like yours.I used to ride a GW and this FJR is not even in the ballpark as far as smoothness and it can't even measure up to the ST for that matter, but I like the sporty look and performance of the FJR so thats why I ride one, it's a give and take scenario. Constant Mesh i'll post up what I find out during my test ride not sure what kind of restrictions the dealer will have on the test ride but I expect there to be a pretty good crowd there so we may be limited to a 5 or 10 minute ride probably just in the parking lot but who knows. :yahoo:

 

[timk]

From the few reports I've seen about the Concours 14 one thing has been mentioned over and over -- a smooth engine with minimal vibration.
If the Concours 14's engine is noticeably smoother than the FJR engine the Yamaha FJR engineers should be embarrassed. The engineers went to the trouble and expense of installing the standard dual balancers called for in an in-line 4 engine. But, it may be illustrated by the Concours 14 that the FJR engineers gave us a botched, half-assed execution of the proven balancer technology.

They must have known that they'd likely never improve the balancer execution as this engine was churned out year after year. Yet they were content to offer a marginal execution of the balancer system.

It seems that Yamaha offers machines that reach about the 85th percentile. They could offer a bit better design execution but 85% is likely good enough. Engineers are expensive so Yamaha is content to offer pretty good machines but not great machines.

I will wait to see if the new Connie is rated Motorcycle of the year 2 years in a row by any Motorcycle magazine before heaping praise, or making Yamaha engineers squemish.

 

[Gary]

Well, to be fair, when Kawi made the original Connie, I felt they were taking what was at its roots a pure sport bike (900 ninja) and making a sport tourer. I liked it. The hop from ninja to connie was fairly short, and its roots were evident.

My initial impression of the FJR1300 (not claiming this to be accurate) was that they had started with the specs of a full on tourer and worked backward to make a sport tourer, and I was kinda disappointed to see the lineage of the FJ series being hijacked by such a tank of a motorcycle. My opinion at the time was that the FJR had more in common with a Venture than an FJ1200.

I was wheeling my long-dead FJ1200 around while cleaning the garage a few months ago, and the difference between the 2 motorcycles is staggering. The FJ, which was HUGE to me when I bought it in 1989, feels like a minibike in comparison.

Ever take so long to write a post that you forgot what point you were trying to make? Me too, I just did it again...

 

[shokdimn]

IMO FJR has a nice even numbered ring to it when followed by 1400. Personally, I don’t see why product engineering wouldn’t be improving a little something (i.e. seat, or vibe reduction effort—if that’s one’s thing) every 2 years. Especially if the product is coming from an area noted for “continuous improvement”.

 

[v65]

IMO FJR has a nice even numbered ring to it when followed by 1400. Personally, I don’t see why product engineering wouldn’t be improving a little something (i.e. seat, or vibe reduction effort—if that’s one’s thing) every 2 years. Especially if the product is coming from an area noted for “continuous improvement”.

Be careful what you ask for, except in the 600cc spotbike market "improvement" always seems to come with weight gain. If Yamaha did everything some folks want to this bike it would weigh 800lbs.

 

[shokdimn]

Be careful what you ask for,

I know what ya mean. Don’t read me wrong; I think the FJR is a marvelous machine.

If Yamaha did everything some folks want to this bike it would weigh 800lbs.

But I don’t think the fear of possible “weight gain” should stifle innovative efforts in corporate R&D or the PEG. One can often find room for improvement in complex durable goods without exceeding the point of diminishing returns. Many aftermarket items are proof of that.
:bike:

 

[Graham Downunder]

The Jury hasn't heard all the evedence so there will be no verdict for a few months as to how good / bad the new Connie will be

Test write ups are just that a write up on a brand new bike for a few hundred miles, do not believe them one way or the other . A comparision test of say an FJR ,Connie ,BMW K1200 gt, and BMW R1200 RT that dose a few thousand miles between several riders is more appropriate.

We need to all take a breath relax and realise that less than 1 % of riders can ride any of the bikes to the bikes capability and KEEP our licence and stay alive .

 

[sprint_st]

I likes the old concours... :blink:

Not me. I had an 02 and put $3k into it trying to make it handle. It's forks made it like a prostitute, no visible means of support!! RT springs and emulators, fork brace, SS brake lines, the best pads, aftermarket shock - you can put ballet slippers on an elephant but you can't make it dance! In 1986 it was absolutely the model for sport tourers, but by the late 90's the competition flat left it except for one thing, price. Kawasaki is doing better now but it definitely cheaped out on lots of components in the Connie. The FJR is one of the best built bikes I have owned in 40 years of riding.

 

[antvq]

I had an old pair (70's vintage) of Yamaha snow skis. When the snow wasn't well groomed they would chatter.

Boy was I embarrassed! :blush:

 

[burnergold2B]

Wow, if your FJR makes you miserable with a buzziness, tune the buzz out in the timing.

If you don't know how to adjust the timing, RTFM. If you don't know how to read a manual or turn a wrench sell your bikes.