dcarver
Well-known member
James, I can't find Roadcycle.com?
KrZy8 Gen2 - Charging Circuit
- Thread starter dcarver
- Start date
Help Support Yamaha FJR Motorcycle Forum:
JamesK
Got to ride
Sorry, I fixed the original link, the site is: www.Roadstercycle.com
Jack's email: jack (at) roadstercycle (dot) com
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dcarver
Well-known member
ahhh, Thanks for that.
And Congrats, you butt head!
You're all fixed and happy and I still sit at 13.5 with the Eastern Beaver harness. :lol:
And Congrats, you butt head!
You're all fixed and happy and I still sit at 13.5 with the Eastern Beaver harness. :lol:
JamesK
Got to ride
Just get in touch with Jack and order the bits (he got them out to me in Japan in under a week), the job is really straight forward and you know that there's a great deal of Voltage at the end of this particular tunnel
SkooterG
Purveyor of Crooked Facts
You guys are REALLY making me happy I have a Gen I. It may have less of those electron thingys, but at least they are all there for me to use. RadioHowie is right. Yamaha really screwed up the electrical integrity of the FJR when they went to Gen II. Makes you wonder how many issues there will be when the Gen III eventually comes out.
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Niehart
Pie Smuggler
Scooter . :assassin:
dcarver
Well-known member
dcarver
Well-known member
Ok then, harness ordered from Jack.
False advertising!!
I didn't see a single beaver in that video, eastern or otherwise. :angry2:
I didn't see a single beaver in that video, eastern or otherwise. :angry2:
bramfrank
BramFrank
I'd consider this mod if they made it up with 8 gauge Ultraflex and a proper 50 amp fuse.
That you report the wire gets warm implies that you are losing power (volts) that you/we can ill afford to lose.
That you report the wire gets warm implies that you are losing power (volts) that you/we can ill afford to lose.
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dcarver
Well-known member
The 8 gauge problem is 8 gauge wire going into a 12 gauge connector terminal? 12 gauge wire = warm to hot, 10 gauge marginally warm to feel on dcarver harness, 8 gauge would be cool. No pun intended. :lol:
Bustanut joker
Well-known member
All this smart talk is giving me a headache. :dribble: I need a drink
JamesK
Got to ride
Frank, IMHO the 10AWG wire is sufficient for this application, like DC mentioned and as when I said the wire was warm it felt the kind of warm you'd expect from most things on a bike running in the garage in the summer with the ambient temps around 85*F and I was touching the wire where it comes into the R/R plug so in some proximity to the exhaust pipe.
Running 8AWG wires would also make the loom thick and stiff, besides according to the stats Kaitsdad posted, the 10AWG wire is the resistance of the 10AWG is 3.985 Ohms/km, so given my run of 6ft/2m so the resistance in our application is around 0.008 Ohms.
dcarver
Well-known member
Tonight I attempted putting a 8 gauge 'soft stranded' wire into the connector. The terminal, maybe, yes, it could be done, if carefully crimped and soldered. The backside, where the terminal crimps to the insulation, not so good. Too big. And the connectors environmental barrier? No way to pass 8 gauge through it. Yes on 10 gauge.
I suppose a feller could use the 8 gauge, crimp an appropriate connector, then back fill will silicone - but not me, not yet.
If JamesK had good results with the 10 gauge harness, I'm hoping I will too.
Recall that with the 12 gauge Eastern Beaver harness, it was very close to nominal.
What that means, really, is that Yamaha missed the boat with the Gen2 OEM 12 gauge harness, IMHO.
I suppose a feller could use the 8 gauge, crimp an appropriate connector, then back fill will silicone - but not me, not yet.
If JamesK had good results with the 10 gauge harness, I'm hoping I will too.
Recall that with the 12 gauge Eastern Beaver harness, it was very close to nominal.
What that means, really, is that Yamaha missed the boat with the Gen2 OEM 12 gauge harness, IMHO.
JamesK
Got to ride
Thought I'd do a real-world test of the new charging system, so given that it was a nice night, and a full moon to boot I went for a 300+ mile night ride through some very nice twisty roads.
Well, to summarize the performance/behavior of the new setup, all I can say is freaking unbelievable (in a good way that is). I was able to run my Soltek HIDs, 35W HID headlights plus the 30W each LED driving lights (mounted on the forks to help with the illumination of tight twisties). With all this stuff on and the rpms often in the 2000-3000 range the Datel mostly read 13.9V with occasional brief stints of 13.8V. The other observation is as to how steady this and any other voltage readings were, vs. the OEM setup where the voltage on the Datel would fluctuate quite violently at times. With just the HID headlights and the LED driving lights (on full power setting) the voltage typically stayed at 14.0 with occasional 14.1V being displayed. The fans occasionally kicked in too, on the really slow/tight and uphill sections.
The ambient temp (during the times I touched the R/R wires and the R/R heatsink) was around 75-77*F. As far as I could feel by touching/holding both of these I could not persevere any heat beyond the ambient temperature. I have in the past performed the same "feel" tests with the OEM setup and often both the wiring and the R/R were too hot to hold onto.
This has been making me wonder, whether the disproportionate number of premature Gen2 Stator and/or R/R failures might be due to the fact that given the underrated OEM wiring (thanks a lot Yamaha bean-counter butt-heads) the components are being forced to run at full capacity all the time just to try to keep the bike charging. Where as with a proper setup even a reasonably heavy load is still well within the component's specs.
As far as I'm concerned this is a complete and permanent solution to the Gen2 charging problem, I was running pretty much all the power consuming gadgets I had at my disposal and the system was in better "shape" than with bare minimums on the OEM setup. Based on this logic and tests I am also happy with the 30A circuit breaker being more than sufficient...
******************************
Of course Murphy is always lurking around when you least expect him so an unrelated issue will keep my FJR off the road for a bit.
My starter motor has been slowly but surely degrading in performance, exhibiting the kind of symptoms ScooterG described in his Start replacement thread, e.g. sluggish starts, quite taxing on the battery even after a couple of spins, etc. I was hoping it would keep working this way until deep winter so that I'd have time to find a good used Starter and not waste riding time on this real PITA job.
Alas it looks like my FJR did NOT get that memo, because about 40 miles from home, after a fill up the starter completely **** itself after an unsuccessful attempt at restarting the bike, it only did about 1/2 a revolution. Luckily the gas station attendants were nice enough to give me a push so I could clutch start the bike and get home under my own steam.
Now all I can hear when I hit the starter button is some very faint wining type sound deep inside the bike (roughly where the Starter is located) and a loud clicking (corresponding with the starter button presses) on the RHS font of the bike a little behind the battery. I assume that's where the starter relay is located? I guess I can't complain, since this Starter has been working flawlessly for the past 139,000 miles
Now to go find ScooterG's Starter thread to figure out how the hell to swap this sucker out.
Well, to summarize the performance/behavior of the new setup, all I can say is freaking unbelievable (in a good way that is). I was able to run my Soltek HIDs, 35W HID headlights plus the 30W each LED driving lights (mounted on the forks to help with the illumination of tight twisties). With all this stuff on and the rpms often in the 2000-3000 range the Datel mostly read 13.9V with occasional brief stints of 13.8V. The other observation is as to how steady this and any other voltage readings were, vs. the OEM setup where the voltage on the Datel would fluctuate quite violently at times. With just the HID headlights and the LED driving lights (on full power setting) the voltage typically stayed at 14.0 with occasional 14.1V being displayed. The fans occasionally kicked in too, on the really slow/tight and uphill sections.
The ambient temp (during the times I touched the R/R wires and the R/R heatsink) was around 75-77*F. As far as I could feel by touching/holding both of these I could not persevere any heat beyond the ambient temperature. I have in the past performed the same "feel" tests with the OEM setup and often both the wiring and the R/R were too hot to hold onto.
This has been making me wonder, whether the disproportionate number of premature Gen2 Stator and/or R/R failures might be due to the fact that given the underrated OEM wiring (thanks a lot Yamaha bean-counter butt-heads) the components are being forced to run at full capacity all the time just to try to keep the bike charging. Where as with a proper setup even a reasonably heavy load is still well within the component's specs.
As far as I'm concerned this is a complete and permanent solution to the Gen2 charging problem, I was running pretty much all the power consuming gadgets I had at my disposal and the system was in better "shape" than with bare minimums on the OEM setup. Based on this logic and tests I am also happy with the 30A circuit breaker being more than sufficient...
******************************
Of course Murphy is always lurking around when you least expect him so an unrelated issue will keep my FJR off the road for a bit.
My starter motor has been slowly but surely degrading in performance, exhibiting the kind of symptoms ScooterG described in his Start replacement thread, e.g. sluggish starts, quite taxing on the battery even after a couple of spins, etc. I was hoping it would keep working this way until deep winter so that I'd have time to find a good used Starter and not waste riding time on this real PITA job.
Alas it looks like my FJR did NOT get that memo, because about 40 miles from home, after a fill up the starter completely **** itself after an unsuccessful attempt at restarting the bike, it only did about 1/2 a revolution. Luckily the gas station attendants were nice enough to give me a push so I could clutch start the bike and get home under my own steam.
Now all I can hear when I hit the starter button is some very faint wining type sound deep inside the bike (roughly where the Starter is located) and a loud clicking (corresponding with the starter button presses) on the RHS font of the bike a little behind the battery. I assume that's where the starter relay is located? I guess I can't complain, since this Starter has been working flawlessly for the past 139,000 miles
Now to go find ScooterG's Starter thread to figure out how the hell to swap this sucker out.
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phroenips
Pronounced "Free-nips"...it's just a
Assuming the problem has now been accurately identified and corrected/bypassed, I'd love to see a summary post...something of a cliff's notes.
My 07 generally only reads 13.4-13.5 while crusing on the datel (across the battery posts with a relay) with no additional load. I probably need to replace my battery as it's getting a bit long in the tooth, but I'm not sure that alone would bring me up to the upper 13 to 14 range.
My 07 generally only reads 13.4-13.5 while crusing on the datel (across the battery posts with a relay) with no additional load. I probably need to replace my battery as it's getting a bit long in the tooth, but I'm not sure that alone would bring me up to the upper 13 to 14 range.
JamesK
Got to ride
I would highly doubt that your voltage readings would change much by replacing the battery. IMHO since your battery is still able to start the bike, then once it is running the voltage being (especially X minutes later, after the battery recovers from the start-up discharge) read/displayed is the one being delivered to the battery by the charging system.
Summary, the best and permanent solution is to bypass the OEM wiring with a fused 10AWG wiring loom running directly b/w the battery and the R/R. Based on DC's extensive testing, nothing practically achievable will generate better results than a bypass loom.
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During the 2008 Spank I would run my Solteks until I got cold, then turn them off so my warm-n-safe jacket would heat. Sucked.
This little mod is going to be implemented.
This little mod is going to be implemented.
JamesK
Got to ride
LOL BTDT, I know I will not need to "use the force" any more when running at night, summer or winter :yahoo:
bramfrank
BramFrank
Well, Roadstercycle is gone for vacation, so some of my money is safe for a week or two, but I do have a question or two (or three, or four);
1. Is the connector he sells waterproof (given where Yamaha has placed the RR)?
2. Does he sell the output connector separately or is he offering an 'output kit' only perhaps? If yes to either, then do you know for how much?
3. How much wire do we REALLY need when all is said and done?
4. Can we pull out the old wiring without slicing things up?
Thanks
Edit: Another question (or 4, or 5)
Circuit breakers tend to 'weaken' in terms of their trip current as they are operated. I'd be inclined to ensure that as few trips as possible are encountered. so;
5a. Is the circuit breaker auto-reset?
5b. Does he offer a larger one, given that you measured 28 amps draw?
5c. I don't recall seeing a pic of the breaker. Where did you put it?
6a. Do you know if he will offer a complete kit specific to the FJR Gen-II?
6b. Will Eastern Beaver get 10 (or 8) gauge wire and offer a complete, pre-built solution?
1. Is the connector he sells waterproof (given where Yamaha has placed the RR)?
2. Does he sell the output connector separately or is he offering an 'output kit' only perhaps? If yes to either, then do you know for how much?
3. How much wire do we REALLY need when all is said and done?
4. Can we pull out the old wiring without slicing things up?
Thanks
Edit: Another question (or 4, or 5)
Circuit breakers tend to 'weaken' in terms of their trip current as they are operated. I'd be inclined to ensure that as few trips as possible are encountered. so;
5a. Is the circuit breaker auto-reset?
5b. Does he offer a larger one, given that you measured 28 amps draw?
5c. I don't recall seeing a pic of the breaker. Where did you put it?
6a. Do you know if he will offer a complete kit specific to the FJR Gen-II?
6b. Will Eastern Beaver get 10 (or 8) gauge wire and offer a complete, pre-built solution?
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