KrZy8 Gen2 - Charging Circuit

[dcarver]

Here's some pix of what the connectors at the Main Fuse looked like..

This pix - hmm, some plating degradation and minimal surface area contact point?

..and a pix of a new connector

 

[Fred W]

Ya know, those don't really look all that bad. But we are dealing with high currents, so every little bit of resistance adds up.

The traditional automotive / motorcycle connection mantra is to never solder these kind of lugs onto the wires, as the solder that will inevitably flow back up the stranded wire conductor makes it much more rigid and brittle, therefore subject to breakage with constant vibration of the environment.

But without spending a buttload on spring loaded, weather sealed connectors, maybe a good butt splice and solder job is what's called for here?

 

[LAF]

At the risk of being ridiculed again by one of this forums members for worrying over what he feels is nothing, I have never seen 14.1 on my datel on my '10.

The only reason I am adding anything to this thread is on my 12k the tech noted I have 13.9 output. His comment was with all the stuff I have on my bike it was not a big deal at all. I still feel it is not right but I am riding it all the same.

As I am electricity challenged. Dont have the equipment or the brains to do all you have. Also a healthy fear from a childhood accident. I guess as long as it starts and I see 13.8 or so I am good to go.

I still am not sure what you did to resolve your issue but would love to get mine to show what it should, or is expected.

Anyway I am very happy you got it resolved.

No ridicule here.

The very first thing to check is that your Datel is giving you the straight scoop. Try to get ahold of a reasonably accurate DVM and measure across the battery terminals and compare that to your Datel's display. I know for certain that my Datel reads .1-.2V low and it is wired directly across my battery, with just a relay or switch in series. Contact resistance of the relay or switch should have minimal effect on the measured voltage as the meter draws extremely little current (no current = no voltage drop).

When I initially installed the Datel (many moons ago) I wired it to the switched power terminal strip I have up in the nose cowling, which also supplied power to my Heated Grips, GPS, and a set of FF50 aux lights. The problem with that scenario is that, while the displayed voltage was reasonably accurate with none of the accessories (or just the GPS) running, as soon as you turned on the grips or the Aux lights the error became even greater because of the heavy currents being drawn by those devices. What aI was seeing was the voltage drop on my power switching relay's contacts and the wiring harness to the terminal strip. You really want the Datel to be run direct to the battery on its own dedicated (low current) wires so you get the best look at actually battery (charging) voltage.

Mine is across the battery. As advised.

I did check it with a meter and know it is like .4 low with a meter. Hence I see a consistent 13.86 and so the 12k showed 13.9 and it was made mention to me at that time from the tech.

Surprisingly with a new MotBat is what I am reading from. The stock Yusa had the Datel reading 13.90.

I just said the hell with it and ride it.

However something still nags me about it. I have the anti spider bite harness on the fans and lights, been to all my spiders except the two in the nose and they are soon. Use AC 50 on all plugs I see and can pull, sealed any relays I could find with liquid tape along with the spiders. Just a pain in the ass to deal with electrics for me so I hate it. However if I should be seeing 14.4 then to me my bike is not right somewhere.

And no you or IonBeam have never been anything but a great help that I appreciate for sure!

The Professor IonBeam helped me a bit and I did check RR output and I think I had 14.7 would need to look in the thread.

Like I said the hell with it I will just ride it and watch for degradation of Datel Volts.

 

[road runner]

Don

Did you say the bypass wire you made was bigger than the factory wire? If so, it could be saying the factory wire and or connectors aren't big enough, especially when loads increase.

 

[Bustanut joker]

I hope that bypass wire pokes through the seat and frys what's left of yer ballz flea dick.. Sorry fuker can't answer his emails

 

[dcarver]

Fred WBut without spending a buttload on spring loaded, weather sealed connectors, maybe a good butt splice and solder job is what's called for here?

I am willing to spend a few bucks for 'environmentally' approved connectors. Jim at Eastern Beaver has relatively decent prices, is a great guy, a rider, and a man of his word. So yeah, I'll replace the OEM 'Molex' style with something better. I am not a OEM purist. Mfrs' have to deal cost points, to a fraction of a penny. I don't.

LAFHowever something still nags me about it. I have the anti spider bite harness on the fans and lights, been to all my spiders except the two in the nose and they are soon. Use AC 50 on all plugs I see and can pull, sealed any relays I could find with liquid tape along with the spiders. Just a pain in the ass to deal with electrics for me so I hate it. However if I should be seeing 14.4 then to me my bike is not right somewhere.

I don't think you'll ever see more than 14.2 at the battery with a FJR. The FSM says:

RR 'Regulated Voltage is 14.2 - 14.8 V' - obviously a spec from the RR sub-supplier, this is what it CAN do - but the real point is at FSM page 8-229 -

Checking the RR - "Charging voltage 14 V at 5k rpm". Note that this is an *unloaded* Vdc measurement of the RR. Sorry, but big whoop, really. 14 vdc unloaded, really? Mine measures 15.9. Assuming 14.0 is (minimally) acceptable, then what's the expected reading at battery given nearly 1.5 - 2 feet of wiring and 3, 4 connections later? No wonder 13.5 is seen, or less, as the connections erode, get dirty etc. Best case scenario is marginally, IMHO, 14.2 across the battery of a gen 2 FJR. I wonder if anyone can prove differently as measured across the battery terminals, using a NIST calilbrated DVM?

road runnerDid you say the bypass wire you made was bigger than the factory wire? If so, it could be saying the factory wire and or connectors aren't big enough, especially when loads increase.

For now, yes, marginally larger. I think IonBeam is is correct, the connections make all difference. I just read an interesting article in a MC rag about all the things mfrs have to go through when building a bike.. the cost analysis are complex, and I fully understand why some cuts are made to the minimum specifications as supplied by the engineers. And you can imagine the EE's going full boat BustaNut about why their perfect design is reduced to sell motobikes. Things like cheap-ass connectors vs environmentally sound connectors, wire gage size, etc. Hell, Gen2's add what, 100 watts? more power and the same harness as Gen1 bikes, (EDIT - not true!) the consequence being fried ground spiders, ignition switches, etc?

BustI hope that bypass wire pokes through the seat and frys what's left of yer ballz flea dick.. Sorry fuker can't answer his emails

Mi deer amigo Bust, you have NEVER sent me an email.. You texted some gibberish my poor ol phone couldn't decipher..

 

[Neil San Diego]

So...what's going to Gathering of the Clans?

Wee-Strom?

Brap-Brap-Brap?

KrZy8eh?

I gots tuh know...

 

[dcarver]

So...what's going to Gathering of the Clans?

Wee-Strom?

Brap-Brap-Brap?

KrZy8eh?

I gots tuh know...

Maybe a 1960 BMW R60/2? No known final drive problems...

 

[Fairlaner]

you could come and get the wing.....

R

 

[Fred W]

Hell, Gen2's had what, 100 watts? more power and the same harness as Gen1 bikes, the consequence being fried ground spiders, ignition switches, etc?

Unfortunately, they did change the wiring harness between generations. 1st gens ain't got no ground spiders.

But your point is well made.

 

[dcarver]

Hell, Gen2's had what, 100 watts? more power and the same harness as Gen1 bikes, the consequence being fried ground spiders, ignition switches, etc?

Unfortunately, they did change the wiring harness between generations. 1st gens ain't got no ground spiders.

But your point is well made.

Original post edited, Thanks Fred.

 

[dcarver]

7/18/2012

Last update, I had cut the OEM connector RR output connector off and crimped undersized female lugs onto the wire with improved results - almost up to par with external harness running direct from RR output to battery.

Removed the crimped connectors, re-crimped then soldered new ones on. Not much difference in VDC at battery, so the mechanical crimp was doing well. The delta remains 0.2 VDC less when running through the OEM harness vs straight to battery with external harness.

https://vimeo.com/46011284

I videoed voltage drops on both hot and negative legs, but they didn't turn out. Will repeat later - bottom line is external harness was just at 0.1 vdc drop from battery hot RR hot, OEM harness was running a solid .2 to .28 VDC drop.

This was confirmed by the VDC delta as measured across battery then RR output - same amount of difference. I wish the video had turned out. Oh well.

Off to order a wiring harness from Jim at Eastern Beaver!

EDIT

OEM RR connectors

Interesting that rubber boot is crimped..

Once the yellow barrier is removed (small screwdriver, it's not captive) yah gots to press here to release the lug.

On the bench

My external harness will be this long.

Wonder if this kind of wire, stereo power amplifier would work well?

 

[SkooterG]

Dude. You need to get laid.

Just step away from the computer and the R/R!

 

[JamesK]

Just wondering, on a bike as complex as the FJR (vs. some vintage machine) is there any downside to running your own wiring from the R/R directly to the Battery +ve & -ve terminals (with a fuse)?

Certainly seems like the best and simplest solution, since you get to control the wire gauge (I'd go for 8 gauge like DC) and use a 30 amp auto reset circuit breaker from Roadcycle.

 

[beemerdons]

Dude. You need to get laid.

Just step away from the computer and the R/R!

Damn Don, if SkootyG is offering, just go for it! This is the FJR Forum, we don't pass judgement here!

 

[dcarver]

Dude. You need to get laid.

Just step away from the computer and the R/R!

Damn Don, if SkootyG is offering, just go for it! This is the FJR Forum, we don't pass judgement here!

My external harness will be this long.

I wonder if that's the line that got SkooterG all worked up?

Hey SkootieBoy, wasn't it you that said I should start troubleshooting? :huh:

:****:

 

[Fred W]

Don,

As you near the end of your "project" here, there is one point you should keep in mind. All of your efforts have been around minimizing the voltage drop (and therefore current restriction) of the stock wiring harness between the RR and the battery. Certainly a worthy goal, and yours may just be the first of the FJRs that add an external piece of heavy gauge wire to minimize those losses.

That said, the reason that we always want to monitor the battery voltage when using power hungry accessories isn't really because the battery won't charge if the voltage goes below XX.X volts (insert your favorite number). The battery will recharge (slowly) and remain healthy as long as we provide a voltage greater than it's ambient voltage.

The reason it's really important to monitor is because, on a perfectly healthy bike with normal (minimal) resistance on the wire harness between the RR and Battery, when we see a dip in the voltage at the battery it tells us that the power (volts times current squared) we are drawing is too much for the charging system. We're talking about the alternator and RR here, not the wiring harness. Those lost volts represent power being lost somewhere else in the system as generated heat. You've seen all of the pictures of the crispy black stators. That is what we are trying to prevent.

So your bike appeared to be losing power somewhere and we were afraid you'd cook your stator somewhere out in the desert, and then the ability to recharge the battery goes away quickly. But in reality it was a "false alarm" of sorts as the power was being lost on the wiring harness itself, which is not nearly as susceptible to heat meltdown as that densely wound stator.

That is all...

 

[dcarver]

Excellent point Fred, 'crisply' made (pun intended!)

On that same note, I *finally* located the power wires for the ABS brakes. They are buried toward the inner side, center, of the bike's width, above the RR plate. The connector looks like a beotch to get at - it's connected to the bracket housing the pump, requiring disassembly at arms reach while laying on the floor. I so want a lift. This connector is the last of the power circuit I've not had apart. I doubt it's leaking any current, but it would be 'curious' to disconnect it and see what happens to the VDC drop from batt + to RR output +. Thoughts? Worthwhile to chase it down since I'm this deep into it or just not worth the ROI?

One other connector I've not been into for inspection is the ECU - same question, leave alone or should it too be looked at, just for grins and giggles?

 

[ionbeam]

...looks like a beotch to get at...This connector is the last of the power circuit I've not had apart. I doubt it's leaking any current, but it would be 'curious' to disconnect it and see what happens to the VDC drop...Thoughts?...

Pull the fuse.

 

[RossKean]

One other connector I've not been into for inspection is the ECU - same question, leave alone or should it too be looked at, just for grins and giggles?

The ECU shouldn't be drawing much. I think I would leave that one alone!

+1 on Ionbeam's suggestion for the ABS.