LED H4 replacements (at the risk of being labeled 'search defective')

[RossKean]

i bought those, will be delivered saturday.

We will expect a detailed report with pictures on Sunday.

 

[TomInPA]

i bought those, will be delivered saturday.

Ah, the forum works in mysterious ways. Now that you've decided to lead, I'm looking forward to your review.

 

[Eric L]

bought them on ebay. They were 81 dollars shipped.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/111446383331?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

i hope the fan isnt too big of a pain in the *** to get installed. it's awfully cramped on the right side. Tom, you know, Pittsburgh isnt that far from here, you could come help...

 

[TomInPA]

We weren't too far from you last week heading north after a trip on Skyline Drive, heading towards Gettysburg.

Install in that Gen III should be pretty easy and straightforward provided you have small hands...

On my superior Gen I I could slam those thing in place in about 40 minutes tops...I don't even know how to remove the panels on a 2014 without breaking something.

Besides, your new avatar kinda creeps me out. Last thing I need is another exploratory diagnostic exam.

 

[Eric L]

in looking at the lights, they should be easy. clip the adapter in the mount, dust boot bck on, insert, twist light. And no, I am not a proctologist.

I am about 12 miles from Frederick, so you passed by.

BTW, I am a geneticist, so its only your genes you have to worry about.

 

[TomInPA]

I'm pretty sure you have the lights under control.

On a more serious note, AFAIK I don't have any interesting mutations, so my genes are safe. I've been meaning to check out the Total Wine and More near you for some wine and beer choices we don't get in PA. I will definitely contact you when we make the trip.

 

[900gc]

Thanks for that find. Looks looks I'll be staying with the newest Philips or Osram premium halogen bulbs when my Night Breaker Plus' burn out. Happy enough with those, was hoping for even better from LED's.

You mention the Night Breaker bulbs that I just got done fondling.

I just had my right low beam go out after being installed for the past 4 years. The stock bulbs seem to last a long time, but the Osram Night Breaker bulbs throw more usable light down the road so the shorter life is worth it to me. BTW, the original Osram Night Breaker bulbs only lasted 9 months and 1 year respectively, but the replacements were labeled PLUS for longer life and my experience confirmed over 4 times the life. We'll see how long the left one still burns, but I ordered another set from www.powerbulbs.com to be prepared for what I predict to be at most another 3 months before it goes.

I suppose if the LED bulbs get the bugs worked out, I'll be using those 4 years from now.

For some great reading on aftermarket bulbs, check out: https://www.danielste...ulbs/bulbs.html .

I just swapped out my 2 year old NB +'s for the newest NB Ultimate's last Saturday. Though the +'s were still fine, they had about 400 hours on them so I figured I'd be proactive and get to 'em before any burnouts. I really wasn't expecting too much difference from the new ones despite the advert. hype and had been very satisfied with the +'s light output. Man, was I surprised. The Ultimate's are a FANTASTIC bulb! Noticeably brighter and whiter than even the +'s with a great wide and full beam pattern. For a halogen option these are EXCELLENT! Hopefully they'll last at least 400 hours as well.

BTW, I tried the fanless LED's in my Honda Pilot projector beam H11 low beams with poor results. Scattered, diffused light (surprised at that being projectors) that was a lot worse at lighting up the road than the standard 55W halogens! Sent them back for a refund.

Still interested to see how the 'GTR' units perform though.

 

[Justin]

I actually wouldn't say that...and certainly didn't mean it. It isn't one of the few that's not very findable using either the forum search engine or Google in this case (because of a forum-technical reason). Short words like "LED" and "H4" ARE tougher to search on! In fact, I found it from memory that Justin's increasingly the go-to guy for LED lighting options. So, let it be know the search nazi isn't impervious.

Thanks Iggy. FYI folks, we're going to have an great deal on LED H4's coming up for FJR forum folks. We've taken our time bringing LED headlight replacements to market, as we've been doing a lot of testing of different variations. We are very happy with the latest versions we've been testing and will be proceeding with them in our product line. We have a number of test units out there on FJR's and feedback has been positive. I run them on my FJR as well. More info and pictures are available on our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/ledmotorcyclelights

Here's a teaser of the color options:

I run one of each on my FJR. Makes you stand out since it looks different, and gives a wider light spectrum for better definition.

A few things to keep in mind about LED headlight replacements:

1 - They will not compare to HIDs for raw output. They offer a marginal increase over halogens, while freeing up a lot of watts and lasting much longer.

2 - If they don't have a fan, don't bother. Any LED headlight unit that doesn't have a fan will either have very low light output, or, it will deteriorate quickly in performance due to heat. LEDs don't like heat. And without a fan the chip will deteriorate quickly. Fins can't get enough heat of the units quickly enough when enclosed in a headlight housing.

3 - Don't be fooled by ads that advertise 30,000-50,000 hour life spans. Yes, the LEDs will last that long, but, they deteriorate over time, even with proper cooling. The units we've been testing are at 98% output between 3000-5000 hours. High output halogens last 400-600 hours, and standard halogens up to 900-1000 hours (for long life bulbs). We suggest replacing at about 4000 hours, so it's still a big improvement on lifespan.

I'll have a thread posted up next week with more details in the group buy section. Been busy getting ready to move tomorrow, so I haven't had a chance to get the deal posted up yet.

 

[RossKean]

Justin

Good information, thanks!

What have you been seeing in terms of lifetime for the fans? My biggest concern has been that the fans would not last anywhere near as long as the LEDs. Also, how do the fans hold up to the inevitable soaking they could get in a heavy rain. Probably no direct water hitting them but they will get spray for sure. Any issues with cold temperatures (30 °F or lower) for the fans or the LEDs themselves? By the way, I have gotten way more than 1000 hours out of the OEM bulbs; less for some cheap replacements I used. Due to deposits on the inside of the glass envelopes, the halogens deteriorate in terms of light output after awhile.

Hard to believe how far LED lights have improved in the past four or five years. Wonder what's coming?

 

[Top_Speed1]

I actually wouldn't say that...and certainly didn't mean it. It isn't one of the few that's not very findable using either the forum search engine or Google in this case (because of a forum-technical reason). Short words like "LED" and "H4" ARE tougher to search on! In fact, I found it from memory that Justin's increasingly the go-to guy for LED lighting options. So, let it be know the search nazi isn't impervious.

Thanks Iggy. FYI folks, we're going to have an great deal on LED H4's coming up for FJR forum folks. We've taken our time bringing LED headlight replacements to market, as we've been doing a lot of testing of different variations. We are very happy with the latest versions we've been testing and will be proceeding with them in our product line. We have a number of test units out there on FJR's and feedback has been positive. I run them on my FJR as well. More info and pictures are available on our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/ledmotorcyclelights

Here's a teaser of the color options:

I run one of each on my FJR. Makes you stand out since it looks different, and gives a wider light spectrum for better definition.

A few things to keep in mind about LED headlight replacements:

1 - They will not compare to HIDs for raw output. They offer a marginal increase over halogens, while freeing up a lot of watts and lasting much longer.

2 - If they don't have a fan, don't bother. Any LED headlight unit that doesn't have a fan will either have very low light output, or, it will deteriorate quickly in performance due to heat. LEDs don't like heat. And without a fan the chip will deteriorate quickly. Fins can't get enough heat of the units quickly enough when enclosed in a headlight housing.

3 - Don't be fooled by ads that advertise 30,000-50,000 hour life spans. Yes, the LEDs will last that long, but, they deteriorate over time, even with proper cooling. The units we've been testing are at 98% output between 3000-5000 hours. High output halogens last 400-600 hours, and standard halogens up to 900-1000 hours (for long life bulbs). We suggest replacing at about 4000 hours, so it's still a big improvement on lifespan.

I'll have a thread posted up next week with more details in the group buy section. Been busy getting ready to move tomorrow, so I haven't had a chance to get the deal posted up yet.

Hi, I respect your Research and I hope you continue on, BUT... Don't use that pic^ as a comparison as to color temps (Kelvin). It's clearly the same image with the RGB shifted (done quite easily on any image editor). If you are actually the leader on this here as Iggy says (and I'm clearly not a follower of his BS) but, I hope you knew this and just posted that by mistake.

In my extended research on this subject for the past few years, I have tried many of HID and LED options (maybe 20 now!?) in my variety of powersport toys. I use mainly my SKi-Doo 1200 as it has very easy access to the capsule compartment. The FJR is a ***** compared to, which I have btw upgraded to Osram/Philips "Real" HID's 3 years back. They are awesome, no Canbus error's either on any toy I've installed them in. Well, back to LED tho...

So nothing personal, just that pic^ -and- all the other Chinese BS "trying to fool us dumb Americans" kind of gets me going. I'm continuing my quest not only motorcycle wise but in 5 other vehicles as well. My best friend just bought a new BMW (Car) with real LED headlights. I'm itching to get inside to see what ticks. I already know that from scratch they have the correct heat sinks etc. and our 3rd party modifications/use is a different platform. Heck, I just want to dissect it.

Most of this Chinese stuff (posts above) has been interesting and made me think... yeah, I was there at one time, just let them go (and learn like I had to) but, I do want to give a shout out to some who can maybe be a little more gun shy on what the Chinese say (lumen and logevity wise) and present their images as BS above^.

Keep'n it real as always. Carry on.

 

[RadioHowie]

Been thinking about this LED H4 conversion A LOT since I found this thread...

Ideally, I think the optimum solution to ultimate headlights on an FJR are HID projectors, but, oh, the work involved is monumental.

I would LOVE a simple "plug and play" solution, and the LED H4 plugins seem like a decent and affordable alternative.

However, the more I thought about LED conversions, and the more I read on the 'net and learned of "limited" success stories, I decided to think a little harder about it.

Here's what I came up with:

This image is a diagram of a typical H4 halogen bulb...

I've labeled the high-beam and low-beam filaments, along with the low-beam filament "shield" so everyone can see the typical configuration of a garden-variety H4 bulb.

The picture shows the bulb oriented vertically, but in normal use, the "top" of the headlight reflector would be to the "left" in the picture above.

What this means is the shield blocks 180 degrees/50% of the light output of the low-beam filament, projecting the light from the low-beam filament to only the top of the reflector. Also, in relation to the base of the reflector, you can see the low-beam filament is located farther from the base of the bulb than the high-beam filament. The position of the filament causes the light to be projected on a different part of the reflector, which is faceted to reflect the light to a different location than the reflector that is exposed to the high-beam filament.

Combining both the extended location of the low-beam filament (as compared to the high-beam filament) AND the position of the shield below the low-beam filament, is what creates the "cut-off" required for low-beam lights.

The high-beam filament is NOT shielded in any way, so 100% of the light from the high-beam filament is projected to the reflector, so all the light is reflected "down the road." Also, since the high-beam filament is physically closer to the base of the lamp, a different portion of the reflector is exposed to the light, aiding in the long-distance spread of the light beam.

Now, here's the problem with the H4 conversion, even the the previously mentioned "GTR" LED...

Take a look at the below image. It's the GTR bulb (and its clones) positioned with the low-beam LED on the right. This picture shows the unit lit in "high-beam mode", with both the low-beam LED AND high-beam LED activated. In a "in use" configuration, the top of the headlight's reflector would be to the right in the image.

You can tell from the picture that the low-beam LED is farther from the base of the lamp than the high-beam LED, similar to the configuration in a "normal" H4 bulb. BUT, the high-beam LED is only projecting in only 1 direction! It is being shielded from 50% of the reflector by the unit itself. The LED conversions combine 100% of the low-beam, which is normal in any H4 bulb, with a light that only projects to 50% of the high-beam portion of the reflector! Just look at the shadowing on either side of the unit, even thought the unit is lit in "high beam mode". This explains to me why reviews of these LED H4 conversions complain of poor high-beam results. Instead of ALL the high-beam light hitting the reflector and being projected "down the road", the manufacturers are "tricking" consumers by using a 50% "strangled" high-beam, combining it with the low-beam, to create a faux "true high-beam" light.

Essentially, in high-beam mode - with both LEDs active, what results is a headlight beam with normal low-beam results close to the vehicle, and a beam restricted to 50% strength in the high-beam down the road.

I'm really looking forward to Eric L's installation and review of these LEDs but I'm not holding my breath expecting world-shattering results. For LED conversion headlights to reach "prime time", they are going to have to be designed to broadcast light in 360 degrees, just like an H4 halogen filament or H4 HID capsule. Until then, I think I'm gonna join the Wait-And-See Gang.

 

[mcatrophy]

... but in normal use, the "top" of the headlight reflector would be to the "left" in the picture above...

Slight correction, top to the right, so the shield is on the bottom.
[Edited to cross out erroneous correction]

 

[RadioHowie]

... but in normal use, the "top" of the headlight reflector would be to the "left" in the picture above...

Slight

correction, top to the right, so the shield is on the bottom.

I was fairly certain I had correctly described the typical H4 configuration, so I just checked my bike along with every car in the parking lot...the low-beam shield is below the filament, blocking the bottom half of the reflector. This prevents any light from the low-beam filament from reflecting "up" and blinding oncoming traffic. The following IS the correct orientation of the bulb in a headlight housing.

 

[mcatrophy]

... but in normal use, the "top" of the headlight reflector would be to the "left" in the picture above...

Slight correction, top to the right, so the shield is on the bottom.

I was fairly certain I had correctly described the typical H4 configuration, so I just checked my bike along with every car in the parking lot...the low-beam shield is below the filament, blocking the bottom half of the reflector. This prevents any light from the low-beam filament from reflecting "up" and blinding oncoming traffic. The following IS the correct orientation of the bulb in a headlight housing.[img=[URL="https://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/radiohowie/H4b_zpsaef5bf92.jpg%5D"]https://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/radiohowie/H4b_zpsaef5bf92.jpg][/URL]

You are absolutely right. In my senility I read your post as 'the top of picture would be to the left'. Note that in my stupid post, I did say the shield is on the bottom.
Hey, the sun was shining, I was in a hurry to get out while it wasn't raining.

 

[mcatrophy]

[erroneous post, deleted]

 

[Fred W]

This is exciting.

So, the best way to run the H4 LED conversion lamps would be (unlike the H4 Halogens) to run the upward emitting LED only while in low beam mode, but to then run both Up and down LEDs when in high beams!! This is brilliant!! (sorry for the bad pun) as it will eliminate one of the major foibles of the FJR headlamp buckets from day one, lack of foreground illumination on high beam.

Even with the halogen lamps (that it was designed for) the high beam was always pretty bad because it shifted all of the light up too high, into too small of a vertical range that the reflector was focused at, and it left the foreground nearly dark. I understand the idea that you do not want too much scatter or foreground illumination when on high beam as it diminishes your distance vision, but it was excessively focused previously, and this seems like the panacea of FJR lighting.

It will require rewiring your bike slightly since the headlight relays will only want to run either the high or low beam LEDs, but with the reduced power consumption of LEDs we should have plenty of overhead power capacity to run both LEDS simultaneously and still be below the draw of the 55W halogen high beams alone.

Now comes my question. (You knew there had to be one...)

I was a fairly early adopter of the H4 telescopic HID conversions. I managed to stumble onto some Chinese manufactured ones that had a decent beam cast, much better than many others I saw online. And the things kept running with no reliability issues at all, that some others experienced. I still have them sitting in a box.

Why you ask? Because the HID capsules emitted too much heat, and they eroded the shiny reflective material on the upper half of the plastic headlamp bucket reflectors. This resulted in a reduced LOW beam intensity (over time), and that is clearly counter-productive. I saw this on the first bucket I had, and then saw it was re-appearing on the second one (replaced after a rogue deer encounter) also. When I had to pay $300 a third time for a headlight bucket (due to bumping into the back of a BMW GS) I opted to not re-introduce the HIDs again, and have been living with the stock halogens (with LED aux light assist) since. FWIW, that 3rd reflector looks quite fine many hours of operation later

Alright... so my question and concern is, knowing full well that LEDs are more efficient than HID arc lights, but also knowing that the LEDs require these cooling fans, does anyone now how much heat the LEDs will produce inside the headlamp buckets? I suspect that it is not very much, but it would be great if someone knew for sure.

One more comment... for those that are concerned about the fan/blower longevity, you should not be so concerned. Fan motors are ridiculously simple things and they seldom crap out anywhere near the rate that a halogen lamp filament does. Yes, there are potential concerns of weather hardiness, but really, the back of the headlamp is fairly well sheltered unless you are doing a KJ and going submarining in a water crossing, and then the HV of an HID system might get deadly!!

I'll be keeping an eye on developments here as I think his has some real potential!

 

[TomInPA]

Fred, I've been running HID in my FJR since early 2011 with no deterioration of the reflector. I don't know why your results were different. This image pretty well shows the beam cutoff with HID, which only lights the upper reflector on low beam.

 

[RadioHowie]

This is exciting.
So, the best way to run the H4 LED conversion lamps would be (unlike the H4 Halogens) to run the upward emitting LED only while in low beam mode, but to then run both Up and down LEDs when in high beams!! This is brilliant!! (sorry for the bad pun) as it will eliminate one of the major foibles of the FJR headlamp buckets from day one, lack of foreground illumination on high beam.

Fred, this is exactly how the H4 LED conversions work, i.e., the high-beam LED is powered-on (lit) at the same time as the low-beam LED. Both emitters light up, providing light from both sides of the unit to the reflector, to be cast down the road.

The problem, and it's a BIG one, is that due to the design of these units, the high-beam LED is only pointing down, towards the bottom of the reflector, exactly like the low-beam LED is only pointing up, at the top of the reflector. This gives full coverage of the low-beam, even in high-beam mode, but the light from the high-beam emitter is only illuminating half of the reflector.

So in high-beam mode, you get all the benefits of low-beam, but only half of what you should be getting from the high-beam emitter.

Again, take a look at the picture I posted above and you'll see the amount of shadows created when the LED is in high-beam mode, i.e., both high and low emitters lit at the same time.

Even with the halogen lamps (that it was designed for) the high beam was always pretty bad because it shifted all of the light up too high, into too small of a vertical range that the reflector was focused at, and it left the foreground nearly dark. I understand the idea that you do not want too much scatter or foreground illumination when on high beam as it diminishes your distance vision, but it was excessively focused previously, and this seems like the panacea of FJR lighting.

I think that's why SO many FJRs seem to have their headlights aimed too high...to get the "correct" low-beam, the high-beam is simply too high. But with the high-beam set "just right" you get a "dark spot" in front of the bike.

It will require rewiring your bike slightly since the headlight relays will only want to run either the high or low beam LEDs, but with the reduced power consumption of LEDs we should have plenty of overhead power capacity to run both LEDS simultaneously and still be below the draw of the 55W halogen high beams alone.

I don't think that would be an issue with these LEDs. They (through their own "ballast") provide power to both emitters. The big fly in the ointment is the high-beam emitters just don't function the same as high-beam H4 halogens or HIDs. It's not the quality of the light...it's the quantity.

 

[Fred W]

No time to respond right now, but I think you are missing something fundamental

 

[RadioHowie]

Like my right frontal lobe???