LED H4 replacements (at the risk of being labeled 'search defective')

[TomInPA]

Trophy, I don't know what you're asking, but the total wattage of any of the LEDs under discussion are far less with all the emitters on, than any single incandescent emitter. The LEDs are wired to not shut off the low beam when the high beam is engaged. HID bulbs do nearly the same thing. LEDs are essentially cold light. They do generate some heat, and the reason for the heat sink and cooling fan is to protect the circuit boards, not drive heat off the emitter. The highest amperage or current H4 LED being discussed here is the Cyclops which is rated at 20 watts low beam and 30 watts in high beam mode. The "Generic" is 24/28.. This is still 50% of the standard incandescent high beam with a (claimed) light yield of 3X the halogen. The distribution of that light seems to be the big contention.

The Generic has on Amazon has a specification for the COB junction temperature of <95C. This is the maximum surface temperature of the diode substrate. Obviously this is below the boiling point of water and far lower than any incandescent.

A little Sumpin' for you LED thermo-dynamic gear heads.

 

[mcatrophy]

Trophy, I don't know what you're asking, but the total wattage of any of the LEDs under discussion are far less with all the emitters on, than any single incandescent emitter. The LEDs are wired to not shut off the low beam when the high beam is engaged. HID bulbs do nearly the same thing. LEDs are essentially cold light. They do generate some heat, and the reason for the heat sink and cooling fan is to protect the circuit boards, not drive heat off the emitter. The highest amperage or current H4 LED being discussed here is the Cyclops which is rated at 20 watts low beam and 30 watts in high beam mode. The "Generic" is 24/28.. This is still 50% of the standard incandescent high beam with a (claimed) light yield of 3X the halogen. The distribution of that light seems to be the big contention.

I'm talking about the OEM incandescent bulbs, not LEDs or HIDs.

 

[someguy]

good stuff. following.

 

[mcatrophy]

Temperature RISE with two filaments on will be approximately twice the temperature rise with one on, that is simple thermodynamics.

Again, this confuses the hell out of me. Let's say with the high-beam on, I measure the temperature of the bulb glass and it's 500 degrees (arbitrary figure, certainly). Then switch it to low-beam and the same measurement is 500 degrees.

Now, electrify both filaments...is the bulb going to be 1000 degrees????

Nearly.
This is a slight simplification due to some non-linear effects such as turbulence in convection currents, but near enough.

Assume the ambient temperature is (say) 60F and that the surface temperature finally reaches (say) 500F with one filament, then the rise is 440F. Double the power in the bulb, the temperature rise will be twice 440 or 880, so the final temperature will be 60+880 or 940.

Short term (a few seconds), the temperature won't get that high, but long term ...

Hence my reticence at relying on this for continuous use.

 

[RossKean]

Temperature RISE with two filaments on will be approximately twice the temperature rise with one on, that is simple thermodynamics.

Again, this confuses the hell out of me. Let's say with the high-beam on, I measure the temperature of the bulb glass and it's 500 degrees (arbitrary figure, certainly). Then switch it to low-beam and the same measurement is 500 degrees.

Now, electrify both filaments...is the bulb going to be 1000 degrees????

You are confusing temperature with heat (or perhaps I am not understanding what you are saying). There is no doubt that the quartz envelope will run hotter (severely reducing its life, maybe even melting it) although not double the temperature even though the elements themselves would each be about the same (maybe a few degrees hotter). If both elements are running, you will be dumping twice as many watt-hours of energy into the bulb and the headlight bucket. The glass temperature is not 1000° because the rate of heat dissipation is a function of the difference between the hot surface and the ambient environment for convective and conductive heat loss. Hotter bulb means more energy transferred. The ultimate final temperature (of bulb or bucket) will depend upon how quickly the heat is transferred to the ambient air (radiation, conduction and convection) and the heat capacity of the assembly. I doubt that an H4 bulb would last very long with both filaments running. If it did, I would certainly expect that the reflector and maybe even the front lens would get pretty well cooked - especially if riding slowly (or stopped) on a hot day. Added forced ventilation (aka fan) could solve the overheating of the bucket but it wouldn't help the bulb very much. Not enough surface area to blow off the excess heat and the quartz internals would overheat even if you managed to keep the envelope cool enough.

Low(er) powered lighting units like LEDs are the future of automotive lighting but (so far) I haven't seen one that outclasses the capability of HID or even a high-end halogen. I am betting that we will see LED lighting in MC in the very near future but it may be an OEM implementation because of the need to optimize the reflector for the different geometry of the bulb. I hope someone proves me wrong on this...

 

[Eric L]

low and high beam....

ok, so they are MUCH better than the other ones I tried. Beam pattern is perfect. Nice that when you switch to high beam, the low beam pattern stays the same, just layer on the high beam. Is it as bright as the stock? I *think* so. Certainly its an acceptable mod.

 

[TomInPA]

It looks pretty good Eric. Can you grab an image of the beam and cutoff projected on a wall or garage door?

 

[Eric L]

tom, the pattern on the wall for the low beam looks just like stock. The high beam is different because it's got the low AND the high beam LED on. Which is good, right?

 

[RadioHowie]

Gotta say, Eric...those pics look pretty damn good!

 

[Geezer]

I like these. I don't think they would be a replacement for auxiliary lights for me, rather a long lasting replacement for the halogens. I have no idea how many hours I get out of a halogen headlamp but I have only replace mine a few times in 150k miles, so I would think these LEDs might last the life of the machine.

I just felt around the right headlight on my Gen 1 and I don't know if there is enough room between the headlight and the battery for these to fit.

 

[RossKean]

Nice to see the low beam fill with the high beam on. Doesn't seem to be any sort of gap between the two swaths of light (good). I don't suppose you did a comparison between the halogen and LED? That would be interesting to see with one of each in the bike and covering one, then the other.

I could pretty well guarantee that the "perfect" LED solution becomes available. All I would have to do is buy a set of these. Oh well, I'll keep my eyes open for what comes out in the next six months or so; don't expect to be riding much between a month from now and April.

 

[Fred W]

I agree, that those don't look bad.

But, to make an accurate analysis we would really need to see direct comparisons to some other known lights like the stock ones. One problem with analyzing image quality (something that I do every day at work) is that without a comparative reference it is totally impossible to determine if the image is better worse or the same, unless there are gross artifacts in the image. There are no gross artifacts (which is good) but we still need to a direct comparison.

 

[jblanken64]

This is a very interesting thread, as I have been considering the LED upgrade as well. I'd suggest taking the pictures with a DSLR using the same manual settings for both setups. Then maybe the camera can be eliminated as a variable. Letting the automatic settings take over would certainly seem to make direct comparisons a little tougher.

 

[Eric L]

well if anyone is within riding distance from me and wants to come by at night, I am all for the scientific comparison.

I do have a dSLR and the skilz.

 

[audiowize]

I can say that I put the ADV rider H4's in my Gen 1 FJR. They are a tight fit on the right side, but they do fit. I haven't done any night riding, but I'll report back once I have. I can say, however, that cars get the eff out of my way when they see those lights in their mirrors. That alone for me is worth lesser night time performance, as the unusual numbers of people moving right for me means that I have become more visible.

 

[900gc]

I agree, that those don't look bad.
But, to make an accurate analysis we would really need to see direct comparisons to some other known lights like the stock ones. One problem with analyzing image quality (something that I do every day at work) is that without a comparative reference it is totally impossible to determine if the image is better worse or the same, unless there are gross artifacts in the image. There are no gross artifacts (which is good) but we still need to a direct comparison.

Exactly. I'm still concerned about the width of the beam from the LED's. They appear from the pictures to be a somewhat narrower beam (due to their design not illuminating the sides of the reflectors?) though the length seems OK.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/ uses a light tunnel and instrumentation to directly compare bulbs in a controlled environment. Their test of H4's was the reason I ended up running Osram Night Breaker Plus, and now Ultimate's Unlimited's (excellent bulbs!) Maybe they will get around to testing LED's soon as they become more popular.

 

[Eric L]

Been riding with them, I don't really see the beam being narrower. But I also have aux lights on the mirror brackets on a dimmer that spread the love... er... light to the sides. Kept on low they only occasionally piss off oncoming riders.

So far I am happy. Not to burst Audiowize's bubble, but the ADVmonster LEDs were a very poor choice in regard to the position of the LEDs in the bucket.

 

[TomInPA]

Eric, I think among the currently available H4 LED bulbs, the front-runners for me are the Generic LED you got, and the Cyclops 3-diode bulb. Fitment is tough on the Cyclops, but the two top LEDs and one lower LED still make sense. The one you got seems most like a H4.

The Generic from Amazon was a great deal at $79.99. They are also being sold by many vendors at many prices:

Oracle at $199 (Nice review and picture of the beam pattern on that site.)

Lifetime LED for FJCruiser at $149

Redline at $149

PlasmaGlow Igniters LED at $166.69

Oracle light at 166.87

AliExpress for $78.20

 

[Warchild]

Very interesting thread... please keep this info coming!

I have been experimenting with LED headlight replacement bulbs quite a bit this year, both the H7 and H4 variants.

Some have been better than others, but I am generally of the opinion we are not quite there yet. That said... I haven't tried Justin's very latest offerings yet.

And I hope I am not leaving the impression that I am not a fan of LED technology; that's obviously not true.

I have one of the finest LED Aux Light setups one can have for LD Riding: true SPOT Krista's for a 1/2 mile down the road, and the LR4 for LEDRider.com for the first 250 ft in front of the bike... this combo pretty much allows me to Own The Night:

:

 

[wheatonFJR]

^^^^That 13 is looking a little dirty...