Mini-Rant from Reno ..... suggetsions moving forward?

[redtail]

Point well taken. Besides, as some have already said, karma will settle this really. You can't live wrong and be blessed! I'm bummed for Reno John, we met in Morro Bay once. And thanks Mad Mike, I can find my own resentments, I think I'll go ride!

 

[exskibum]

Maybe I missed something, but knowing RJ, my only impression was that he was talking about returning the cans* to Portland sans shipping charges in just another excuse to ride his motobike (to the extent he was even serious about making the trip). I haven't noted a threat, much less an actionable one. As to suggestions of violence, my only suggestion in that regard was to take advantage of the one viable use I see for those beat to death cans -- for target practice in the desert outside Reno. What might be kinda funny if the seller won't make it right is to return a thoroughly riddled set to him for disposal . . . and then to watch eBay to see how he'd photograph and describe them (gently dropped in the garage?) in trying to sell them yet again.

* if anyone seriously read more into this, they shouldn't have.

 

[Bill]

A solution to this should be very easy. Follow the directions for utilizing the eBay Buyer Protection Plan and if the seller doesn't make it right with you, they'll refund what you paid.

What does eBay Buyer Protection cover?

eBay Buyer Protection covers items purchased on eBay with eligible payment methods that are not received or not as described in the listing. Some purchases are not covered, including prohibited or restricted items and items listed or that should be listed in the Motors (except for Parts and Accessories) and Real Estate categories. Most Business and Industrial categories are covered by eBay Buyer Protection. Remember, eBay Buyer Protection doesn't cover fraudulent charges or buyer remorse. Also, items must be purchased on the U.S. eBay.com website to qualify for eBay Buyer Protection coverage, and are covered for 45 days from the date of payment. Purchases made on Half.com and classified listings on eBay.com are not covered.

 

[RenoJohn]

Just some thoughts while reading these post. Would it be possible to wrap them in carbon fiber to hide the mess? Just a thought and maybe some of the folks who do carbon fiber work can post up.

Hmmm, ya perhaps that is a thought. I'm not qualified to really know. Staintune does not do carbon fiber, so any fix like that would be custom and IMO void the grooviness of a true Staintune.

I do know I'm not going to put much thought into these at this point. Should I end up stuck with them, at that point I will talk to some 604stainless steel experts and see what they think is possible. I'm not optimistic, but you never know .....but they are Staintunes and it might be worth checking out. 03SilverBullet's comment are encouraging along these lines, and that would sure be golden. Until this gets resolved with the seller, I'm not about to screw with the exhaust in any way. At this point there nothing but a buzz-kill and I don't like negative stuff, life is too golden.



***And along MadMike's comments:

I've mentioned here on the forum, and directly to the seller that if he doesn't reply to my offers of good-faith option to end this disupute, or at least offer his own ....that I would leave open all legal and ethical options open. That time-line has passed, I'm now seeing if PayPal/Ebay offer much up in help, they're now doing their thing. What moves I make parrallel or past that likely will not be shared here.

The seller still has the opportunity to make this right. It ain't going to a judge and jury, so the verdict will have to come from his own conscience. Now, I hope paypal/ebay will help show him the way, and I'm certainly eager to work with him ....but his attitude so far has not been encouraging.

The point being: At least as far as I'm concerned, it'll stay legal and ethical. This is my issue, I'll deal with the best way I know, and that will be my way, and solo. ....but that doesn't rule out a visit to Portland, the rose city is beautiful, group rides can be fun if MadMike leads the safety talk (oh crap did I say that?) ....and a visit to a certain address in Tigard might be nice. Got the phone number, maybe let him know when to expect so he can have milk and cookies waiting.

 

[RenoJohn]

A solution to this should be very easy. Follow the directions for utilizing the eBay Buyer Protection Plan and if the seller doesn't make it right with you, they'll refund what you paid.
What does eBay Buyer Protection cover?

eBay Buyer Protection covers items purchased on eBay with eligible payment methods that are not received or not as described in the listing. Some purchases are not covered, including prohibited or restricted items and items listed or that should be listed in the Motors (except for Parts and Accessories) and Real Estate categories. Most Business and Industrial categories are covered by eBay Buyer Protection. Remember, eBay Buyer Protection doesn't cover fraudulent charges or buyer remorse. Also, items must be purchased on the U.S. eBay.com website to qualify for eBay Buyer Protection coverage, and are covered for 45 days from the date of payment. Purchases made on Half.com and classified listings on eBay.com are not covered.

Ya read that, ....and it's kinda in the works. What I mean by kinda is that you first must do the paypal thing. ...and then it triggers a thing over in Ebay automatically ......

Kinda weird, but when you factor it that Paypal is noW part of Ebay, I guess it kinda makes sense. This is all new to me, we'll see where it goes.

End result is that it goes into a dispute, then claim and then attempts to make everyone happy ...and the timelines are looong. For example, I got it elevated to "Claim" status, now the seller has 10days to reply .....and that goes on and on it seems.

NOW, if someone has been-there-done-that and knows the mechanics, I'd be very interested. Again, all new to me, never had a problem on Ebay, or paypal.

 

[FJRBluesman]

Item was misrepresented. (emphasis added) Refund should be forthcoming. Under a definition of the "reasonable person" standard, this is a simple case of something we would not want to happen to ourselves. For reference, one common law legal idea of a "reasonable person" states: A phrase used to denote a hypothetical person who exercises qualities of attention, knowledge, intelligence, and judgment that society requires of its members for the protection of their own interest and the interests of others.
Point out that the pipes were misrepresented and you would like to return them for a full refund to include shipping.

Regards,

W2

I would tend to agree with W2. The laws in Neveda maybe different, or not far off.
The guy posted perfect pipe pix. They were heavily damaged, dented, scratched beyond belief, etc, and he didn't post those pix. The wording was very sugar coated, light scrtaches from "handling", not dragged down the road for 5 miles and thrown off a cliff.

Good luck John. If you used Paypal and a "Credit Card", have you CC company fight it, they seem to work harder for the consumer. That was at least in my similar experience.

 

[FJR-RemingtonRider]

Wow! Sorry about the "Rip-off" intended or not.

Speaking from experience, it is very difficult to get settlements from ebay. Unless it is some class-action fraudulent action going on, or a persistent person who is willing to levy much time to the cause, they probably won't do anything and send the patterened letter.

When I petitioned for a claim, becaus post office lost items; I had proof and pics to tell my story of truth; and that the seller should have carried insurance for the item, since they chose to ship it the cheap route. After a couple months, ebay and their brainchild pay-pal offered nothing and I was out $80.00....forget going after the post office.

I know it is nieve for one to think the way I am about to write this: But I find this forum to be a sanctuary where people who dwell here have integrity and respect for one another. With that said, perhaps looking at his e-bay record was not the guiding light; looking at his FJRforum record would have been the more prudent thing to do (hind-sight here).

This situation is where someone knowingly joined to specifically take advantage of the forum integrity and comradery I mentioned earlier. He knew the exhaust were coveted and expensive items and that people on this forum would recognize the value of the product and perhaps be less cautious or suspicious because he was a forum member. He then posted the bike to spite the forum as to show how he is trying to get over on a unfamiliar body of folks on e-bay.

Even with his reckless disregard for the forum and what it means to most; You sir (RenoJohn) in turn with your attitude and actions restored the balance with your dignity and kindness and self-respect to move beyond this and not let it eat up your time and energy. I commend you for that; and that is why I continue to be a member on this forum.

Here Here....to Reno John...

 

[RenoJohn]

Wow! Sorry about the "Rip-off" intended or not.
Speaking from experience, it is very difficult to get settlements from ebay.

I know it is nieve for one to think the way I am about to write this: But I find this forum to be a sanctuary where people who dwell here have integrity and respect for one another. With that said, perhaps looking at his e-bay record was not the guiding light; looking at his FJRforum record would have been the more prudent thing to do (hind-sight here).

Thanks for that comment on Ebay. I'm afraid you're likely right and I'm not holding much faith in this one.
As far as your second comment. I could not disagree more. If you were to add up the money of folks getting ripped off on this forum, I have little doubt the vast majority would be from likeable folk --I think many are with me thinking of a "prefferred vendor". That meaningless statement meant that the admin's gave a "thumbs up" to the guy. And once he flaked, the doubters and folks who wanted a piece of his *** were shouted down ....it was a shame and shows what happens when you let things meddle in a free market arena. People got hurt, sides were taken and it's not an isolated incident. IMO much it was the cause of another forum being created, I'm all for competition, and maybe not a bad thing, but it was born out of people being separated and not united. Much of because IMO the threads are closed and dissenting opionion silenced and no place for folks to vent.

Note I didn't even bring up the vendor who's name is not allowed to be mentioned. LOL, is that crazy or what?

I think it's been proven that mama forum isn't equipped to really decide who one should buy from.

I took an educated chance buying from this guy. It was/is my sole decision and responsibility. It hasn't turned out well, I have no one to point my finger to. But, I will say that his ebay record meant a lot more to me than "preferred vendor status" on this board. I've seen the dollar amounts that the "preferred folk have ****** people out of on here, I was invovled in one, and by smarts and luck came out better than most.

It's too bad, but just as in the real world, we're all ultimately responsible for where we spend our money, in spite of where your real mama or the forum mama may point you too.

 

[Patriot]

reading an article he wrote in either Rolling Stone or Playboy.
I sold the .357 Python decades ago

comeon now...I don't remember one article from Playboy...

and how I wish I still had my Colt Python, 4" in blue

<and my S&W 9mm model 52 in nickel>

:angry2:

 

[k7lvo]

Wow! Sorry about the "Rip-off" intended or not.
Speaking from experience, it is very difficult to get settlements from ebay...

This is not to dispute your experience, but to encourage RJ. I sold a cell phone on eBay that worked fine when I put it in its box, but the buyer claimed that not only could they not get it to work, the people at the AT&T store couldn't, either. Even though it was only the buyer's word against mine, eBay's decision was to have the buyer return the phone to me for a full refund. However, they no longer had it because, according to them, AT&T had offered them a "trade in" toward a new phone, so they no longer had it.

Shipping, minimal for so small an item, wasn't discussed, as I remember.

 

[exskibum]

and how I wish I still had my Colt Python, 4" in blue

Yep, mine was blue with a 4" barrel, too. Bought it used (probably 95%) in Reno in '74 from a friend's room mate who was an honest to God trust fund baby. He went through quality stuff like you never saw. I was over there one day and mentioned that I'd love to own a Colt Python, and the room mate goes into his bedroom and comes back out with one he says he'll sell to me. I asked him how much and he told me he wanted a smaller gun -- a .38 that would fit in his (sports car) glove box, and suggests that if I'm interested, let's go to the gun shop. We go there, and he settles on a Colt Cobra, I pay the $150 that cost and he makes out a bill of sale to me for the same amount for the Python. Thankfully, the gun shop owner made no mention of the obvious folly of that trade!

Four years later, I was staying in L.A. for 6 weeks between living in Steamboat Springs and Tahoe City, and needed $$. Put the gun in the paper for $150 (did I just mention folly above?), and got the first call at 6:30 am. That guy bought it within an hour (gun transfer laws were completely different in those days), and I must've gotten 20 more calls later that morning. Sure do wish I still had that gun, but that isn't the only stupid sale I've made ('66 Fender Telecaster and '67 Ford Mustang fastback come to mind).

 

[ShinyPartsUp]

I'm sorry this happened to a stand-up guy such as yourself John. I don't have much to add that hasn't been posted. But I wantedyou to know there is another in solidarity with you.

 

[jmdaniel]

What's so wrong about writing an honest review of an eBay seller? I'm talking about in the grand scheme, not specifically this case. If the deal is as expected, my review attests to that, such as my purchase of a Corbin Smuggler here a couple of weeks ago. It came to me in great shape, as it was described, and I gave a big thumbs up here to the seller. If it doesn't come as expected, and the seller wants to take the money and run, that seller should expect to be called on it. An example would be the creeps at Kendon, who put me through the wringer, when I wanted my brand new trailer to not be a paint shaker at 60mph. After months of my time, and money out of my pocket, I lit 'em up on a few forums, including this one. Another example would be an eBay seller that sold me a hitch stand for the trailer. The ad didn't state the part number, and when I received it, I discovered that it fit trailers pre-2003. I contacted him, asked him for a full refund, with me paying the shipping back to him, and he refused. He would only offer to refund $9 of the $20 price, saying the other $11 was his shipping to me, stating that he has "a warehouse with over 300,000 parts , most from shops I have bought after they went out of business so there is no one to tell me what they fit". Really? So it was my responsibility to buy the part, then provide him with the feedback he put in his ad going forward, so that other buyers wouldn't have the same issue I did? And he was only going to charge me 55% of the purchase price for this honor, providing I also pay to ship the part back? Not so fast, Kemosabe... I gave him the rating he deserved, he replied back with a lie, ("offered a full refund"), and as the buyer gets the last word on reviews, I set the record straight. The punk followed up with a threatening email, which said even more about the whole process.

Bottom line is that feedback ratings are designed for.... wait, it's coming...... FEEDBACK! If a seller wants 100% good feedback, do your job well 100%, or, in cases of disputes, make it right 100% of the time. Why is that so complicated?

 

[Aasland]

What's so wrong about writing an honest review of an eBay seller?....stuff...

Why is that so complicated?

I don't disagree .. just wanted to add that as a seller, we can't leave negative feedback for buyers anymore.

I sell stuff on Ebay a couple times a year and for all but two incidents the in he past 15 years things have gone very well.

But those two incidents have taught me a couple things:

1. Never use Paypal to sell expensive stuff.

2. The buyer gets the benefit of the doubt.

3. Paypal/Ebay customer service is crap, and their decision is final. Next step: small claims court.

Sorry you got burned, but at least Ebay/Paypal has stacked the deck in your favor.

 

[Fred W]

The seller is clearly a con man. In addition to lying (through omission) about the damage that happened to the cans the RJ bought, he also lied in his ad for his bike. He claims that the bike was totalled and received its salvage title only because the faring was damaged.

only the side plastics were replaced or repaired

No insurance company in the world would total an '05 for the cost of the tupperware. :glare:

I would put the negative feedback in his profile now. It can be amended later if he makes good. It appears that he buys and sells a lot of used bike parts on eBay. I'm thinking he may have a little business going buying crashed salvage bikes and fixing them up. Having negative feedback may help incentivize him toward resolving your dispute.

Waiting to hear what the final solution is.

 

[canyonman]

Sorry you got screwed on this deal John, sucks!

I have seen items for sale on Ebay in the past that were listed as "damaged" and the sellers took close up pics of every dent and scrape to make sure the potential buyers were absolutley sure of what they were buying.

This tool obviously went to some trouble to do just the opposite.

I know you don't need my pep talk, but stay on his ***. If all the good folk just lay down and do nothing these fuks will run amuck.

The glass IS half full John!

 

[Patriot]

Bottom line is that feedback ratings are designed for.... wait, it's coming...... FEEDBACK! If a seller wants 100% good feedback, do your job well 100%, or, in cases of disputes, make it right 100% of the time. Why is that so complicated?

well at that point, the war has been declared and the weapons of choice come out.

John his holding out for the guy to come to his senses and work with him to a solution.

I believe it's prudent to give that some time before pulling triggers.

He did and notified the ****** when the deadline would be.

I've only had 2 bad experiences as a buyer with ebay.

First was a $20 shirt that the seller disappeared after i paid and didn't receive the merchandise

The worst was a set of used Kury highway foot pads for my Goldwing. $200 item new I paid $100 for.

Was advertised as like new with the amber leds option.

They were beat up, missing hardware, and no leds.

I wanted to return them for refund. We went back and forth and the guys wife agreed for the refund. Later I found out the guy vetoed that.

I sent them back. He decided to have leds installed and then sent them again to me with no refund. Now I'm paying $100 plus $20 shipping to him.

I insist of a refund. He declines. I then dispute it with ebay and my credit card company.

He goes through all the trouble to get pictures off Kury's sight of new item, and provide shipping receipt/proof that he sent them to me twice.

I leave negative feedback...his first. He hits the roof and sends nasty emails and phone messages for a couple days.

I email him that if my kids have to hear another tirade, I'm calling the authorities and will charge him with verbal assault.

I bought new, gave them to a riding buddy who couldn't afford to buy his own, and reeped the good karma knowing my friendly seller with reap his.

 

[mehaffydr]

John This Sucks. Id be Pissed if I were you. I would attempt to get refund but if that doesn't work BAD Feedback foresure.

Ive heard that if he can proove you recieved the item Paypal is No help in getting refund.

 

[rickcorwn]

Posting this over here was a part of this thread FS Staintune exhaust this was getting way off topic for that thread. My original idea was this;

Maybe a better idea would be to not allow linking to or otherwise pimping an eBay or Craigslist ads. If your advertising in the FJR Forum it's to sell to a fellow member of this community. That might make it less desirable for "outsiders" to use this forum. I don't think this would overburden the Management here I think they already keep a pretty close eye on the classifieds.

Matt responded;

I don't think this would overburden the Management here I think they already keep a pretty close eye on the classifieds.

That would be a big negative. The hint would be at the top of this section that states:

The Owners and Staff of FJRForum.com are not responsible for The Owners and Staff of FJRForum.com are not responsible for any transactions that take place as a result of using this forum.

Caveat emptor buddy.

This thread has been an exception and shouldn't actually even be one for debate or discussion. Use this thread if your spleen hurts.

If people are looking for more surety in their purchases...they should go to some other place like eBay that has a process for disputes.

My intent was not that the Owners and Staff would be responsible for any transaction only that eliminating the linking to or pimping of eBay/Craigslist ads might help make it less desirable for people that hide behind the facade of a forum member to sell on the FJR forum. I've seen this on other forums specifically ADV and it's a rule I personally like. As to my remark about whether this would overburden management I thought that they already monitor the classifieds closely and this would not create much extra work. Apparently I'm wrong about the amount of additional effort this would take. Lastly, my spleen is fine thank you

 

[Alex]

John, I just finally read through all this. You definitely don't deserve this crap. However I think you will end up with a refund. Ebay/PayPal is geared towards the buyer as others have said. After you have escalated the transaction to a Claim the $ in the sellers Paypal account disappears until the claim has expired or closed. It can only expire if you choose to not respond.

Right now the $ is in Paypals hands and if you are not happy, the end result will be that you mail back the pipes (delivery confirmation) and they will give you back the funds.

Hopefully all this transpires sooner than later for you!