Park Your Ego at the Door

[James Burleigh]

When do ego, conceit, over-confidence and/or recklessness take a back-seat to common sense, a healthy fear and self-preservation when riding a high performance sport touring machine?

I’m going to approach this from a different direction, the one I learned skiing, which can pose the same issues. It seems to be a natural inclination to fall into ego traps. Some part of our ”self” is always comparing, judging, or making us think about the results that will come from some level of performance rather than paying attention to the process. But that's a distraction, a subtraction from the 100% focus and concentration necessary to best performance. The zen trick is to recognize and quickly dispatch those judgmental or ego driven thoughts, so you can focus on the road unfolding and how it feels to carve the bike through it.

Smooth is good and smooth allows, or is, fast and safe. Smooth comes from focusing on the bike and the path. The issues in that true performance thinking are throttle control, transitions from one direction to another, brake control (grabbing and releasing), shifting and gear/throttle synchronization, looking where you want to go. If you think about it, or worse, if you think about extraneous judgmental stuff, you lose part of your innate ability to perform, since you have subtracted concentration.

That's my long winded way of getting to the next question, which is the important one, IMO:

How do you know if you are pushing too hard and when do you have the common sense to let go of ego and ride within your personal skill level?

When it doesn’t FEEL smooth or controlled, when it FEELS forced. Hopefully, we are all experienced enough to know what it feels like to be in control, effortlessly snaking the bike through corners on the line we intend, even if it isn’t close to MotoGP pace. When it doesn’t feel like that, then you are probably over your head. That lack of feel is what makes us tighten our sphincters and start searching for what we need to do next – all subtracting more concentration. But we’re going too fast to be able to afford giving up even 5% of our available concentration.

However you recognize it, whether you feel like what you’re doing is dangerous or you just don’t feel the comfortable rhythm you know can exist, then slow down and get back to what feels good. Get back to controlling the bike smoothly, and not to worrying about where you are in the formation or whether you’re showing off good skills. You aren’t at that point. Don’t go down and prove it with an exclamation point. To me, that is the essence of what it means to “ride your own ride.”

Too many react by parking it in the corners (because the pace is too great to smoothly take your skills through at an even speed) and then use the throttle to catch up. We've all done it, but if you catch yourself doing that, it’s a sign. I’ve had some serious wake up calls before, too. Like narrowly missing the edge of the pavement when leaned over – it’s a wake up call, you got lucky that time – SLOW DOWN!! Maybe it’s just fatigue or dehydration and you’re better on a different day, or maybe it’s trying too hard to follow faster riders – doesn’t matter, if you get a wake up call, SLOW DOWN and reestablish what feels comfortable. You don’t need a second one you might not escape. There are all kinds of wake up calls, but that fearful tightening of body parts is usually one very reliable one. Heed it. And if you have someone on board and don’t heed it – shame on you.

Do group rides have the unintended effect of causing you to ride at a level that is unsafe for you and others?

Unequivocally, YES! It’s a whole stewing set of temptations to get into that judgmental, left brain comparison crap, to let your ego loose or your subconscious fear of not measuring up push you. In our culture, we tend to be competitive. Add testosterone and any kind of reputation, perceived stature or statement to have to prove up, and it’s magnified. That’s not a good starting point, especially when fatigue, dehydration, low blood sugar, heat or other emotions are added to the equation.

The plain unavoidable fact is that there are better and lesser skilled riders. What we need to truly “GET” is that it doesn’t matter over beers at the motel later. What matters is that we each experienced the same things (even if some were at greater speeds than others) and can share them with one another.

As the person who organized the ride, should I try to influence those who want to ride excessively fast to slow down for others or is that an unrealistic expectation?

A very accomplished extreme skier friend that I used to go ski mountaineering with ALWAYS said this when we started up the mountain away from the cars: “Remember, the object is to get back to the cars. If you have to make a descent instead of ripping something, make the descent. Your first obligation is to get back to the cars.”

That’s about the best and most leader-like thing I’ve ever heard in a similar situation. You can’t be responsible for others who will not exercise common sense or cannot reign in their egos or machismo (but you can decide not to ride or go into the back country with them). We all end up making our own decisions and need to be responsible for them. Those decisions are many and varied. If I think there might be a problem, I either won’t go on the ride, or I drop back and ride sweep way back.

Sorry -- don’t mean to pontificate. It’s a LOT easier said than lived up to and requires constant effort. No one likes to see friends get hurt or to be the one it happens to. Zen is about getting out of our own way so that we can perform, and probably also about keeping our egos from causing us harm.

My 2 cents . . . borne of procrastinating at work. :huh:

********!

Oh, sorry. I thought I was somebody else for a minute there....

 

[Silver Penguin]

Wait a minute - TWN rides like his Granny? Then who was that in front of me on Hwy 101 a couple of months back? I was doing around 90mph or so........ Go Granny Go!!!!!!

How many times does one need to hear 'Ride Your Own Ride' before it sinks in? I didn't get that, at first. As a rookie, I hooked up with a womens' group to ride Angeles Crest Highway. Twenty or so riders were split into fast, middle and slow groups. I was embarassed to say that my skills were not up to the pace of the slow group, but I kept up with them anyway. Andy's voice asked me over the radio what I thought of the scenery. What (expletive) scenery? There was a white line and a yellow line and my goal was to stay between them. That and nothing else. I had to give 100% concentration to just staying in the lines. There was no room to see the breathtaking views, be aware of other traffic or even to enjoy the ride. Not fun at all!

I've learned since then, in more ways than one. Several classes, and reading a lot, has helped with technique. And I got an FJR instead of a cruiser. Most of all, I learned that the best speed for me is one where I feel comfortable. If there are more than a couple of 'Oh-****' moments during a day's ride, then I'm doing something wrong. Even if the feeling was caused by another driver, it's my responsibility to get ME home safely.

The concept of a shared destination ride appeals to me. I like the fellowship of a group at the rest stops, then talking about the ride afterwards. I don't like to think that I'm holding a faster rider back but on the other hand, I do want to ride a spirited pace that exhilarates me without being outright scary.

I believe that it is rare to find a group that will all ride at the same pace, so some understanding is necessary. Thus, I'm able to ride with Fairlaner sometimes, and he gets to have a lot of smoke breaks while I catch up!

Jill

 

[Mooseonagoose]

I can't add much more than to say that the one & only time I've made a ditch-tour at any substantial amount of speed was pretty directly related to riding someone elses pace, which is why, ...as I recently said in another post, it's become one of my primary personal road rules! I figured that'n out w/ a couple of my early mentors [whom I still don't try to stay w/ when they want to 'wring-it-out'], ...but evidently the lesson still needed a little re-enforement, luckily I came away w/ not much bruised 'cept my ego.

TWN, ...then there's some curves that just beg to be savored sloooowly!

 

[RsvlFeej]

When do ego, conceit, over-confidence and/or recklessness take a back-seat to common sense, a healthy fear and self-preservation when riding a high performance sport touring machine? How do you know if you are pushing too hard and when do you have the common sense to let go of ego and ride within your personal skill level? Do group rides have the unintended effect of causing you to ride at a level that is unsafe for you and others? As the person who organized the ride, should I try to influence those who want to ride excessively fast to slow down for others or is that an unrealistic expectation?

Dr. Rich, ExSkiBum responded to most of your questions better than I can

... But that's a distraction, a subtraction from the 100% focus and concentration necessary to best performance. The zen trick is to recognize and quickly dispatch those judgmental or ego driven thoughts, so you can focus on the road unfolding and how it feels to carve the bike through it.
Smooth is good and smooth allows, or is, fast and safe. Smooth comes from focusing on the bike and the path. The issues in that true performance thinking are throttle control, transitions from one direction to another, brake control (grabbing and releasing), shifting and gear/throttle synchronization, looking where you want to go. If you think about it, or worse, if you think about extraneous judgmental stuff, you lose part of your innate ability to perform, since you have subtracted concentration. ...

How do you know if you are pushing too hard and when do you have the common sense to let go of ego and ride within your personal skill level?

When it doesn’t FEEL smooth or controlled, when it FEELS forced. Hopefully, we are all experienced enough to know what it feels like to be in control, effortlessly snaking the bike through corners on the line we intend, even if it isn’t close to MotoGP pace. When it doesn’t feel like that, then you are probably over your head. That lack of feel is what makes us tighten our sphincters and start searching for what we need to do next – all subtracting more concentration. But we’re going too fast to be able to afford giving up even 5% of our available concentration.

However you recognize it, whether you feel like what you’re doing is dangerous or you just don’t feel the comfortable rhythm you know can exist, then slow down and get back to what feels good. Get back to controlling the bike smoothly, and not to worrying about where you are in the formation or whether you’re showing off good skills. You aren’t at that point. Don’t go down and prove it with an exclamation point. To me, that is the essence of what it means to “ride your own ride.”

... There are all kinds of wake up calls, but that fearful tightening of body parts is usually one very reliable one. Heed it. And if you have someone on board and don’t heed it – shame on you.

As usual, ExSkiBum has gotten as close as I've ever heard anyone get in articulating what I feel while riding. The "in control feeling" of how you and your bike and the road and the surroundings all mesh and you are set up for the next corner via an instinctive smooth shift in position on the bike and the path through the oncoming curve has been chosen and set up even while you're barely past the apex of the last corner... Aaaahhh.

And likewise with his description of knowing when you're pushing too hard - the rhythm CAN'T be forced and the little curses under your breath about 'coming into that corner too hot' and 'picking a piss-poor line through this corner' added to the burning of the muscles between your shoulder blades from hanging onto the grips a bit tighter than usual - all say it's time to back off.

As to how to react when the leader's pace is not your own. I can say without reservation that following a smooth leader running at a brisk pace is a BLAST, definitely the most fun I've had riding in a group. Slipping in behind an excellent rider - watching his entry lines and getting the bonus of watching him make the micro-adjustments to cornering speed from 3-5 seconds back and then carving your own near-identical lines results in sheer joy. You achieve the "in control feeling" and actually add a measure of relaxed confidence because you can see and adjust to the leader's bike AND to the corner. Big Note Here: SPEED is NOT the point, clean cornering IS.

Without that brisk leader, the highlights of a group ride are the shared destinations rather than the ride itself - also fun, but relegates the riding portion to secondary status and IMO is also very dangerous: Because I'm not as focused on riding my ride - I'm busy trying to maintain the split between my bike and the guy ahead of me while watching one or more bikes with riders of unknown skill abuse my six - Yikes!

This last Sunday, I had a grand total of one minor rear-wheel slip on the sloppy part of Skaggs Springs Road and therefore felt I was at the brisk, but in-control pace I so dearly love to follow. Since I was asked to lead a fast group for this portion of the ride, I rode at what I thought was "the PACE" - fast corners without huge acceleration out of the corners, very little braking into the corners because entry speed was set early, and most importantly, no blown corners. In retrospect, my first clue that I wasn't doing too well was that instead of seeing headlights at a more-or-less consistent distance behind me, I kept having to wait. Second clue was this thread. Once we hit the dry part of Skaggs Springs Road, I had 2 bikes in the rearview most of the time (one of whom overtook me), so apparently the pace through that section was acceptable.

My apologies to any who felt "ego, conceit, over-confidence and/or recklessness (took) a back-seat to common sense, a healthy fear and self-preservation" or that I "ride excessively fast" (to which I will add the caveat - for this particular group ride). All I can say is, I never crossed the fog-line and only crowded (but did not cross) the center-line once - because I was going too slow. Yes, I saw the wet corners, yes I saw the other slippery stuff - gravel, leaves, mud - but adjusted my speed accordingly and wasn't going so fast that they couldn't be avoided. My intent was to provide a fun, fast pace - no more.

My take (possibly because I started riding in groups after too many years riding alone and therefore haven't seen the ego-driven consequences) is, "It's your personal responsibility to know your limits." I am very happy that no one suffered any mishap as a result of my lack of group leadership. It never entered my mind that I was challenging anybody to anything. That said, I will continue try to find the best line at the best safe speed through the corners and run the connections between those corners at near or just over the speed limit the rest of the time (AKA, my version of the PACE).

RsvlFeej

 

[Bustanut joker]

Bustagoof, meet grandma:

:dribble: :dribble: Hey! how much it cost me to date your gramma?

:jester:

 

[Fred W]

There are a few major difference between "pushing" yourself on a ski slope and "pushing" yourself while riding a motorcycle on the street.

On the ski slope, trees and moguls are infinitely smarter than the cage drivers one sees out on the road every day.

They tend to stay where they belong.

They never show up suddenly where they shouldn't be.

Most skiers go over the same terrain many times and know what's coming next.

When you do make a mistake on the ski slope and go beyond your ability, it usually results in a yard sale, a few bumps and bruises, or maybe torn ligaments at worst.

Yes, deaths have occurred skiing, but pretty rarely. Serious injuries and deaths occur far more frequently when screwing up on a bike. In summary, the stakes are a lot higher.

 

[antvq]

When I was in the service a wise old SFC told me, "There is a fine line between hardcore and stupidity. The mark of a true leader is knowing where that line is and not crossing it". It may sound trite, but that stuck with me all through my service and in the years since I've been out. It has saved my butt many a times and just not in riding, but on construction sites, when out camping in the boonies with the boys, etc. And yes, the hardest part is knowing exactly where that line is for you.

 

[FJRMGM]

Why is it that faster riders are considered "better" riders. That's not necessarily so... on the track, yes, on the street no. A slower rider can be the "better" rider on the street. I used to ride faster than I do now, so now I'm not as good a rider as I used to be? Ego can cause riders to push harder than they should because of my first sentence. Getting rid of the faster=better notion will cure the ego problem.

Most excellent points and well said.

 

[i64X]

Haha you guys think you've had it bad in this situation when riding your FJR with other FJR riders... you're gonna love this.

My last bike before my FJR was a Suzuki Burgman 400... scooter. I'd regularly go riding with my friends and my brother. Here's a list of what they owned:

Brother: 2007 Honda CBR600RR

Friend Tim: 2007 Suzuki GSXR600

Friend Travis: 2007 Suzuki GSXR600

Friend Carrie: 2002 Honda CBR600F4

...you get the idea. Haha.

I have a couple friends that I could easily keep up with, partially due to their skill level. My buddy James regularly came with us and he has an 800cc Boulevard. My other friend Kent had a GS500, but he's getting a B-King this year so if I still had the scoot he'd be on the list above with the rest of the sport bikes.

Bottom line is that it was hard for me to keep up. Don't get me wrong, a lot of you would be really surprised at what those Burgmans will do. To any of my friends that kinda poked fun at me for it I'd just say "go take it for a rip, see what you think." and they all came back pretty surprised and I really don't take any crap for having that instead of a "real" bike.

When I went out to ride with them I would go for the fun of riding, and wasn't so worried about catching up all the time. Sometimes they would get ahead of me, sometimes they wouldn't. None of them ride SUPER illegal and except for a few times they'd keep it at 70 and below, which around some of the curvy roads around here is still pretty fast. I rode at what I felt comfortable with and still had a really good time though. I'm sure the FJR will be no different.

What worked out on the scoot is that I really didn't think that I had anything to prove to anyone, and I didn't "owe" anyone anything, so when you go in to it with a mindset like that, it's easy to keep your riding speed within your abilities. It helps that I've bit it before - not because I was showing off or speeding or anything. I was by myself, in town making a right hand turn at 5mph max and hit some gravel... bike slid, broken collar bone. Still, broken bones and broken bikes aren't fun... trying to keep up and scaring yourself isn't fun either. Riding with buds and getting home safe are fun. Think of it that way.

 

[Gramps]

Group rides are the absolute WORST time to push, since there will be some poor slob that will try and keep up with the faster riders, exceed their own capabilities and crash. How would you feel then?
Oh, and there is the distinct possibility that poor slob could be you.

I very much agree with Fred on this. A couple of years ago I was leading a small group who were on cruisers & for the most part they were keeping up with me no problem. But then I wasn't pushing it either or at least that's what I thought....they both went down, nothing serious thankfully just some scrapes, scratches & minor broken parts. That was a scary lesson for me one which I always think about whether leading or within a group ride.

I find myself now-a-days riding only as fast as the slowest rider in the group. Sometimes that's me.

 

[James Burleigh]

When do ego, conceit, over-confidence and/or recklessness take a back-seat to common sense, a healthy fear and self-preservation when riding a high performance sport touring machine?
Your thoughts are appreciated…… Rich

ΣΩ. Ὀνομάτων οὖν στασιασάντων͵ καὶ τῶν μὲν φασκόντων ἑαυτὰ εἶναι τὰ ὅμοια τῇ ἀληθείᾳ͵ τῶν δ΄ ἑαυτά͵ τίνι ἔτι διακρινοῦμεν͵ ἢ ἐπὶ τί ἐλθόντες; οὐ γάρ που ἐπὶ ὀνόματά γε ἕτερα ἄλλα τούτων· οὐ γὰρ ἔστιν͵ ἀλλὰ δῆλον ὅτι ἄλλ΄ ἄττα ζητητέα πλὴν ὀνομάτων͵ ἃ ἡμῖν ἐμφανιεῖ ἄνευ ὀνομάτων ὁπότερα τούτων ἐστὶ τἀληθῆ͵ δείξαντα δῆλον ὅτι τὴν ἀλήθειαν τῶν ὄντων. ΚΡ. Δοκεῖ μοι οὕτω. ΣΩ. Ἔστιν ἄρα͵ ὡς ἔοικεν͵ ὦ Κρατύλε͵ δυνατὸν μαθεῖν ἄνευ ὀνομάτων τὰ ὄντα͵ εἴπερ ταῦτα οὕτως ἔχει. ΚΡ. Φαίνεται. ΣΩ. Διὰ τίνος ἄλλου οὖν ἔτι προσδοκᾷς ἂν ταῦτα μαθεῖν; ἆρα δι΄ ἄλλου του ἢ οὗπερ εἰκός τε καὶ δικαιότατον͵ δι΄ ἀλλήλων γε͵ εἴ πῃ συγγενῆ ἐστιν͵ καὶ αὐτὰ δι΄ αὑτῶν; τὸ γάρ που ἕτερον ἐκείνων καὶ ἀλλοῖον ἕτερον ἄν τι καὶ ἀλλοῖον σημαίνοι ἀλλ΄ οὐκ ἐκεῖνα. ΚΡ. Ἀληθῆ μοι φαίνῃ λέγειν. ΣΩ. Ἔχε δὴ πρὸς Διός· τὰ δὲ ὀνόματα οὐ πολλάκις μέντοι ὡμολογήσαμεν τὰ καλῶς κείμενα ἐοικότα εἶναι ἐκείνοις ὧν ὀνόματα κεῖται͵ καὶ εἶναι εἰκόνας τῶν πραγμάτων; ΚΡ. Ναί. ΣΩ. Εἰ οὖν ἔστι μὲν ὅτι μάλιστα δι΄ ὀνομάτων τὰ πράγματα μανθάνειν͵ ἔστι δὲ καὶ δι΄ αὐτῶν͵ ποτέρα ἂν εἴη καλλίων καὶ σαφεστέρα ἡ μάθησις; ἐκ τῆς εἰκόνος μανθάνειν αὐτήν τε αὐτὴν εἰ καλῶς εἴκασται͵ καὶ τὴν ἀλήθειαν ἧς ἦν εἰκών͵ ἢ ἐκ τῆς ἀληθείας αὐτήν τε αὐτὴν καὶ τὴν εἰκόνα αὐτῆς εἰ πρεπόντως εἴργασται; ΚΡ. Ἐκ τῆς ἀληθείας μοι δοκεῖ ἀνάγκη εἶναι. ΣΩ. Ὅντινα μὲν τοίνυν τρόπον δεῖ μανθάνειν ἢ εὑρίσκειν τὰ ὄντα͵ μεῖζον ἴσως ἐστὶν ἐγνωκέναι ἢ κατ΄ ἐμὲ καὶ σέ· ἀγαπητὸν δὲ καὶ τοῦτο ὁμολογήσασθαι͵ ὅτι οὐκ ἐξ ὀνομάτων ἀλλὰ πολὺ μᾶλλον αὐτὰ ἐξ αὑτῶν καὶ μαθητέον καὶ ζητητέον ἢ ἐκ τῶν ὀνομάτων. ΚΡ. Φαίνεται͵ ὦ Σώκρατες.

Jb

 

[painman]

I commend Dr. Rich to bring up this topic that is long over-due! And I respect his wisdom and guts for bringing it up. And I respect those who have laid out their thoughts on this subject, which in itself helps me become a better rider also. I'm sure there are some here who are offended and is witnessed by the way they ride and respond as some think this thread is a joke, but the joke is on you really. You can take that anyway you like.

It is so true that while riding on public streets this is not a place to compete to see who is the best, or fastest rider. Save that for the track. I ususally am at the rear of a group ride and I have my own reasons good or bad but as said, I just want to make it home on the bike with no incidents to see my family, thats my main goal. Each time though I ride, I am trying to make myself a better rider, thats my second goal.

I usually ride sweep in our CMA group rides and my job is to secure lanes before the group makes a lane change and to make sure no rider is left behind, no matter what the reason. And we are in a formal formation, ie, staggered formation, 2 seconds between each rider, etc. Alot more dangerous than the "shared destination" style of riding but we are mainly on cruisers so the speed factor is reduced. But still not as safe IMO.

It is good to ride in a group as I can watch others and how they ride to help me learn and become a better rider. On some of first FJR group rides I almost got in over my head a couple of times and thats when, and with the advice of some of the more proficent riders gave me some good advice and to them I say thank you as well. Great topic, I'm saving this thread for sure! PM. <><

 

[FJRAust]

Bustagoof, meet grandma:

:dribble: :dribble: Hey! how much it cost me to date your gramma?

:jester:

I'm not interested in Granma's date but there are some other area's of interest

 

[rogdeb]

Dr Rich --- really good thread. In reading it I can see myself many different times over in other riders.

Definitely food for thought.

I now (on group rides) always ride my own pace regardless of the pace of the group in general. That wasn't always the case though.

And, if my "pace barometer" starts to waver, Deb's own barometer instantly lets me know.

The few times I ride solo I find myself thinking -- "jeez, I wouldn't be riding like this with Deb on back" -- then I can rein in a little. Solo riding is a different animal than 2-up of course, and it does give a person the chance to explore their own limits -- which can be a double edged sword.

I could go on, but, I gotta go. Look forward to more replies on this.

 

[radman]

While I love going fast, a plethora of dead friends has tamed me somewhat. Some outstanding responses here say it better than I. I can say, I haven't gone down yet, and don't intend to. On the other hand. it says a lot about this bunch that somehow a hottie got tossed in for temporary respite from such seriousness........

 

[exskibum]

There are a few major difference between "pushing" yourself on a ski slope and "pushing" yourself while riding a motorcycle on the street.
On the ski slope, trees and moguls are infinitely smarter than the cage drivers one sees out on the road every day.

They tend to stay where they belong.

They never show up suddenly where they shouldn't be.

Most skiers go over the same terrain many times and know what's coming next.

When you do make a mistake on the ski slope and go beyond your ability, it usually results in a yard sale, a few bumps and bruises, or maybe torn ligaments at worst.

Yes, deaths have occurred skiing, but pretty rarely. Serious injuries and deaths occur far more frequently when screwing up on a bike. In summary, the stakes are a lot higher.

Agreed in the conditions you've addressed, although it's amazing to me how many incidents of people dying from hitting trees or getting hung upside down in a tree bowl to suffocate have been reported in recent years. Even if it is as safe as you suggest, though, the same ego distractions and traction management and line picking skills apply, IMO.

If you're suggesting it's all about risk, though, I'd note that ski mountaineering in the back country on avalanche chutes (we ski them late in the season after the snow consolidates and the avalanche danger abates) with rock exposure (cliffs, rock outcroppings, skree, etc.) is every bit as high stakes as motorcycling, and further from help. From Carson Pass and Sonora Pass (routes we ride), I can point out a couple places I've climbed to and skied, and if Crescent Moon chute at Roundtop off Carson Pass doesn't make you fight back that panic feeling in your gut looking down it (from 100 feet above where I probably should have stopped my ascent), you're a lot better than I am. (An experience there is actually one that I was drawing on in my earlier post.)

Depending on the venue, snow conditions aren't always to be taken for granted, either. On most inbounds stuff, you're right, but the Roof at Squaw got closed permanently because of variable snow conditions in dangerous spots (and the resultant wrongful death law suit), and you don't want to be skiing Keyhole at Alpine without some circumspection about variable snow conditions, even when it's opened by the patrol. In the back country on serious steeps with rock exposure, the snow can be icy or hard in the morning where you can't set an edge. Or a section can soften so much in the afternoon sun that a ski's edge's length isn't enough to keep all that's holding your weight and allowing you to turn from letting go under you. You might have to get off it instantly when it does, hopefully to set an edge going the other way, without the time to pray that you'll miss the rocks below. To me, this and the decisions you're forced to make are analogous to motorcycling. But even at that, I wasn't suggesting that anyone should equate *their* skiing experiences to their motorcycling experiences -- just that skiing is where *I* get my perspective. But then, I'm also a hell of a lot better skier than I am a motorcyclist, even now.

 

[twowheelnut]

On the other hand. it says a lot about this bunch that somehow a hottie got tossed in for temporary respite from such seriousness........

It's my job. That's what I do. You're welcome.

 

[wheatonFJR]

On the other hand. it says a lot about this bunch that somehow a hottie got tossed in for temporary respite from such seriousness........

It's my job. That's what I do. You're welcome.

Well...we thanks you.

Seems though, except for this thread you've been slackin'

 

[Scythian]

Let's be realistic, we are dealing with motorcycle riders here. It's not a random sample of the polulation....

When do ego, conceit, over-confidence and/or recklessness take a back-seat to common sense, a healthy fear and self-preservation when riding a high performance sport touring machine?

In any group ride, there's at least one guy with an inferiority complex for whom crashing is a small price to pay to get there before you. There's another group of guys who try to keep up with the inferiority complex guy(s) 'cuz it's fun. Then there is another group who doesn't give a **** about how fast the other groups go.

How do you know if you are pushing too hard and when do you have the common sense to let go of ego and ride within your personal skill level?

You can tell when you start trying to catch up to the insecure guys who don't care if they crash as long as they are in front of You.

Do group rides have the unintended effect of causing you to ride at a level that is unsafe for you and others?

Near as I can tell, that is the intended effect of a group ride....

As the person who organized the ride, should I try to influence those who want to ride excessively fast to slow down for others or is that an unrealistic expectation?

Unrealistic. And your influence may even goad some guys to ride faster than they would have if you hadn't said anything.

I don't go on group rides and I won't ride with anyone else. I ride a motorcycle specifically to get away from other people; riding doesn't lend itself at all to group participation.

If you like travelling down the road in a crowd, ride a bus.

 

[twowheelnut]

Well...we thanks you.
Seems though, except for this thread you've been slackin'

Yeah, well my FJRF bonus sucked last year, so I ain't given 100% anymore.