And as to the thread within a thread here about giving the noobies instruction on a group ride, what "errors in riding" would be so egregious that one would start harping on another rider at the next stop over? I can see if the guy is creating risk to some of the others, but if it's just riding skills, why not just STFU and mind your own business?
Well, you'll notice I've stayed away from that one, but it IS an important discussion. For most, even making a casual suggestion about a book (my personal rereading favorite is Nick Ienatsch's "Sport Riding Techniques") at a stop or after the ride is not likely to be welcomed by even those who need it most. There are exceptions. One rider assuming superiority and giving instruction during a ride is nearly certain to be met with defensiveness unless asked for, IMO.
But then, there's also the problem of the who and the where in instruction. In golf, the best place to learn something new is on the range, not during a round, and it usually takes an insightful teaching pro to figure out the origin of the outside to in swing that is resulting in a slice. Anyone can tell you you're cutting across the ball, but compounding the error with a quick fix is NOT what I'd be looking for when the source of the flaw is in my setup (e.g., I'd somehow allowed the position of the ball to migrate and was subconsciously compensating for that to cause a slice). Fortunately, in golf, there's a two stroke penalty for giving or soliciting advice during stroke play -- amazing how fast that **** stops when you insist on invoking the penalty. Or, as a German friend in Tahoe City used to gruffly say: "When I want lesson, I focking pay for it." LOL
In skiing, I've watched more hacks ruin their GF's or wife's day with unsolicited instruction when they don't know what they're talking about. I grew up with a father who was a great skier, really good athlete, but piss poor communicator when it came to unsolicited instruction. Drove my Mom crazy, and took a LOT of pleasure out of skiing and other sports for her, even though in watching a video tape made from 8mm films -- she was a pretty good skier back when I was growing up. I had my issues with his teaching style and trying to get any refuge from it, but still, I learned a lot from him. So . . . I don't give ski instruction, unless someone actually asks for it. (It probably says something to the main topic here that the ones who do ask are usually already pretty good skiers, including a couple instructors.) Then it's usually one or two things with a demonstration and I let them work on it while we continue with the main objective -- having fun skiing together. In ski mountaineering, it's not an issue -- everyone is an expert skier.
In motorcycling, I don't know that I've ever even attempted to show someone how to ride. (Except maybe to show first ex-wife how to ride my Z1 in an empty Steamboat parking lot 30 years ago.) If I think someone's dangerous to ride with, I just won't ride with him. I may like that person and want to socialize with him at the destination, but I'll try not to be close when riding. I try to learn as much as I can about riding, but that doesn't mean I'm a qualified teacher or would be good at getting across what that person needs to hear to improve. OTOH, if someone does something downright stupid that endangers others, I probably will say something about it, or at the very least, drop way back and ride sweep a half mile behind the group, hoping I don't come upon a crash.
As is probably clear from my rambling, I really don't know the answer to this, but in light of the dangers involved, I've been reading the sub thread with interest. Endangering others or demonstrating a lack of skills in ski mountaineering would get you 86ed, if you had somehow managed to get invited in the first place. While riding can be as dangerous, it's probably also true that the challenge of the roads we ride doesn't require expert level skills just to get down them,
IF the rider rides within his or her ability. That's not always true in the back country. So you'd think that modifying a rider's approach would mitigate the danger, but then you run square into egos, defensiveness and the stuff Bounce was talking about. I guess I just take the chicken way out and take care of me and my pillion first by getting out of the danger zone: either not a part of the group ride or way back sweep. MM2's "shared destination" vis "group" rides is probably the best compromise I've heard yet.
