Possible stator woes!!!!!!!

[ionbeam]

The R/R on the FJR contains a self regulator set ~ 14.3 volts. Within the R/R it sets the correct voltage but the R/R never sees the end result voltage in the switched ignition circuit and doesn't care. Many motorcycle regulators have a 'sense' wire that connects to either the battery or the main wiring harness. If the R/R sense wire on the battery sees the voltage at 13.8 it will do what ever is necessary within the capability of the stator to drive that voltage back up to 14.3 volts. The voltage at the R/R may now be 14.8 volts but that doesn't matter, all that matters is that the main electrical system is at 14.3 volts. The only draw back with this type of R/R is in error conditions the remote voltage sensing can cause under or over voltage problems.

When I pulled the stock R/R I saw a third terminal in the output block and for a few thrilling seconds thought the R/R may actually have a remote sense!!! But not. It appears the pin is simply there and not connected. Dang, what fun I could have with a remote sensing R/R!!!!

 

[Groo]

Nice writeup Ion... keep us apprised of your continuing investigations...

 

[radman]

Very nice discovery process and write up. Seems to me the one constant through all of this is DON'T OVERWORK THE SYSTEM!!!. Yami apparently intended that the electrical sytem capacity was for the bike only, and add ons would need solar panels or wind driven generators as required. Inadequacies within the system appear general, and not limited to one or two components.

 

[kaitsdad]

IonBeam,

Great stuff!!

Leaning a lot here, keep it up.

Thanks!

 

[Warchild]

Since people with the stock stator are describing similar readings/problems I would think checking out/replacing the R/R would be a logical place to start.

But this is not correct.... folks with stock systems are NOT seeing the readings some of us with the ElectroSport are seeing!

Let me describe it again: I start the bike up, and do not turn on any electrical loads on the bike (other than the engine running and low-beam headlights). At this point, with the engine running at ~ 3000 RPM, the voltmeter SHOULD be displaying something around 14.1v -14.3v, AND, it should not waver or fluctuate unless you switch on a high-draw accessory.

But that is NOT what is happening here in my case.

Although it starts of at 13.8v, within about 10-15 seconds, the Datel readout starts to swing all over the place constantly..... it goes from 13.8 to 12.9 to 13.3 to 13.1 to 13.9 to 12.8 to 13.2 to 13.5 to 12.7 to 13.1 to 13.7..... it never stops wildly fluctuating, and the highest reading never climbs higher than 13.8v, even though I have not engaged any of the electrical accessories.

This is NOT the behavior the stock systems demonstrate!

When I had my OEM stator installed, the Datel would ALWAYS display a rock-steady 14.2v at any engine speed above 2500 RPM, unless I fired up the PHIDs or Widder vest, etc. Then it would drop a few tenths as expected, but it certainly would not wildly hop around like the Datel is demonstrating currently.

Before I left for Denver last week, I took a Fluke meter to the battery and compared it's readout to the Datel's readout over several different engine speeds (lowest ~ 2500RPM, the highest ~ 5000 RPM). The Fluke readings matched the Datel readings precisely across all engine speeds tested.

Like I said earlier, I'm going to find out what the deal is here with this stator. I want it to work as advertised. Many of us on pre-'06 bikes really, REALLY need the extra power. And if necessary, I'll send my EGS130 stator back to Ritzo so he and his folks can examine it closely.

But before all that... I need to rip into the bike and find out if it's something obvious that's causing this problem. For all we know, it could be the wire harness breaking down, corrosion on the connectors, or any number of causes that would result in the readings we are seeing.

 

[Warchild]

Aug 23 Update: I am now in contact with Ritzo at ElectoSport.

We've exchanged a few emails. I've agreed to allow my bike to continue to be a test mule as we try out different trioubleshooting methods to try to determine WTF is happening here.

So while I don't necessarily harbor a ton of hope at this point, I guess I am not done testing this stator after all. Not yet, anyway. Who knows, maybe we'll find out it's something that's "fixable" and we can go forward and continue to enjoy a system rated at 590-watts..... B)

 

[radman]

Aug 23 Update: I am now in contact with Ritzo at ElectoSport.
We've exchanged a few emails. I've agreed to allow my bike to continue to be a test mule as we try out different trioubleshooting methods to try to determine WTF is happening here.

So while I don't necessarily harbor a ton of hope at this point, I guess I am not done testing this stator after all. Not yet, anyway. Who knows, maybe we'll find out it's something that's "fixable" and we can go forward and continue to enjoy a system rated at 590-watts..... B)

Be nice if it turns out to be a stator/regulator pkg, something I would be a hell of a lot more comfortable with anyway, having seen the low ratings on the oe RR.

 

[S_Palmer]

But that is NOT what is happening here in my case.
Although it starts of at 13.8v, within about 10-15 seconds, the Datel readout starts to swing all over the place constantly..... it goes from 13.8 to 12.9 to 13.3 to 13.1 to 13.9 to 12.8 to 13.2 to 13.5 to 12.7 to 13.1 to 13.7..... it never stops wildly fluctuating, and the highest reading never climbs higher than 13.8v, even though I have not engaged any of the electrical accessories.

This is NOT the behavior the stock systems demonstrate!

My stock system shows the same symptoms, the only add ons I have are

electric grip heaters and gps. The fluctuations are there with or without

grip heaters on.

Steve

 

[Warchild]

My stock system shows the same symptoms, the only add ons I have are electric grip heaters and gps. The fluctuations are there with or without

grip heaters on.

Steve

You have a voltmeter that fluctuates this wildly with your original factory electrical system? With or without any accessories lit up? If so, you have a problem of some sort: possibly you may have a loose voltmeter connection, a bad voltmeter, or have some other electrical issue going on.

If you have a healthy charging/electrical system, and have a good voltmeter with clean, tight connections directly to the battery, then you will NOT see the readings fly around between 12.x and 13.8v. If you do... something is wrong. Neither one of my FJRs (a '04 ABS model, and the current '03) has EVER displayed this voltmeter behavior until recently.

 

[S_Palmer]

My stock system shows the same symptoms, the only add ons I have are

electric grip heaters and gps. The fluctuations are there with or without

grip heaters on.

Steve

You have a voltmeter that fluctuates this wildly with your original factory electrical system? With or without any accessories lit up? If so, you have a problem of some sort: possibly you may have a loose voltmeter connection, a bad voltmeter, or have some other electrical issue going on.

If you have a healthy charging/electrical system, and have a good voltmeter with clean, tight connections directly to the battery, then you will NOT see the readings fly around between 12.x and 13.8v. If you do... something is wrong. Neither one of my FJRs (a '04 ABS model, and the current '03) has EVER displayed this voltmeter behavior until recently.

 

[radman]

Mr Palmer, you suXoRs at the intranet!

 

[SkooterG]

Mr Palmer, you suXoRs at the intranet!

He he he

Well, here's my experience observing the voltage using my Pasport 8500's voltmeter function. The voltage on my FJR does fluctuate, but not a whole lot. With no added electrical loads, it reads between 13.9- 14.5 volts. Sometimes it is rock steady for a while, varying only .1 volt, and sometimes it fluctuates in the range given above. So while fluctuating, it is still all in the *good* range.

When I add electrical load I see similar stuff. Voltage goes down a little bit as you would expect it to, and it fluctuates, but only in a small range. Still never goes below 13.0v.

 

[05fjrBluedevil]

This seems more and more like an out of warranty farkle!!!! Do it at your own risk

 

[radman]

Well, here's my experience observing the voltage using my Pasport 8500's voltmeter function. The voltage on my FJR does fluctuate, but not a whole lot. With no added electrical loads, it reads between 13.9- 14.5 volts. Sometimes it is rock steady for a while, varying only .1 volt, and sometimes it fluctuates in the range given above. So while fluctuating, it is still all in the *good* range.
When I add electrical load I see similar stuff. Voltage goes down a little bit as you would expect it to, and it fluctuates, but only in a small range. Still never goes below 13.0v.

And this would be at a steady, ohhh, 8500rpm then?

 

[Scarbutt]

Since people with the stock stator are describing similar readings/problems I would think checking out/replacing the R/R would be a logical place to start.

But this is not correct.... folks with stock systems are NOT seeing the readings some of us with the ElectroSport are seeing!

Let me describe it again: I start the bike up, and do not turn on any electrical loads on the bike (other than the engine running and low-beam headlights). At this point, with the engine running at ~ 3000 RPM, the voltmeter SHOULD be displaying something around 14.1v -14.3v, AND, it should not waver or fluctuate unless you switch on a high-draw accessory.

But that is NOT what is happening here in my case.

Although it starts of at 13.8v, within about 10-15 seconds, the Datel readout starts to swing all over the place constantly..... it goes from 13.8 to 12.9 to 13.3 to 13.1 to 13.9 to 12.8 to 13.2 to 13.5 to 12.7 to 13.1 to 13.7..... it never stops wildly fluctuating, and the highest reading never climbs higher than 13.8v, even though I have not engaged any of the electrical accessories.

This is NOT the behavior the stock systems demonstrate!

When I had my OEM stator installed, the Datel would ALWAYS display a rock-steady 14.2v at any engine speed above 2500 RPM, unless I fired up the PHIDs or Widder vest, etc. Then it would drop a few tenths as expected, but it certainly would not wildly hop around like the Datel is demonstrating currently.

Before I left for Denver last week, I took a Fluke meter to the battery and compared it's readout to the Datel's readout over several different engine speeds (lowest ~ 2500RPM, the highest ~ 5000 RPM). The Fluke readings matched the Datel readings precisely across all engine speeds tested.

Like I said earlier, I'm going to find out what the deal is here with this stator. I want it to work as advertised. Many of us on pre-'06 bikes really, REALLY need the extra power. And if necessary, I'll send my EGS130 stator back to Ritzo so he and his folks can examine it closely.

But before all that... I need to rip into the bike and find out if it's something obvious that's causing this problem. For all we know, it could be the wire harness breaking down, corrosion on the connectors, or any number of causes that would result in the readings we are seeing.

Might want to check your Datel ? I had one go bad after 6 months of operation and it was doing this very same thing. Voltage readings jumping all over the place !

Sent it back for a warranty replacement and the new one has been working well ever since.

John

 

[S_Palmer]

Mr Palmer, you suXoRs at the intranet!

While I can't argue that fact, I recieved a little outside "help" with that last post when I had to step

away from the key board for a while.

Back to the real subject, I'm using a GPS III+ for a volt meter, it's wired though a dist. block that

is powered by a relay. Does any body see a problem with this as long as my connections are good?

 

[odot]

I think any farkles involving electricity is unwarranted and gay. Gps? Got the stars for that. Music? Got my brain for that. Radar detector? Got my eyes for leo's. Keeping warm? Isn't that what they designed the engine to do for you? Horizontal pleasure? That's what I have a right hand for. Riding in the desert from time to time will teach you that.

 

[Warchild]

Might want to check your Datel ? I had one go bad after 6 months of operation

Er..... guess you didn't quite read all of that quoted post.....

This passage, specifically:

Before I left for Denver last week, I took a Fluke meter to the battery and compared it's readout to the Datel's readout over several different engine speeds (lowest ~ 2500RPM, the highest ~ 5000 RPM). The Fluke readings matched the Datel readings precisely across all engine speeds tested.

 

[odot]

Um...bad fluke meter? lol.....just kidding. Get rid of those electric things and stop worrying.

 

[chornbe]

I can't help but think this is some behavoir from the rectifier not being able to keep up with the frequency (or current) coming out of the stator. And, not necessarily an "problem".

+1 - it's been a long, long time since I messed with electricals, but I wonder over the same thing.