Possible stator woes!!!!!!!
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twowheelnut
R.I.P. Our Motorcycling Friend
Hey, who stole my shrubbery?
Odot, are you telling me that all those chicks on the FNG web site are nothing more than *** hags? Sad. Truly sad.
Odot, are you telling me that all those chicks on the FNG web site are nothing more than *** hags? Sad. Truly sad.
painman
Well-known member
So, are you taking me on as your next project? In case you didn't read my post, I did say to check the stator, (HELLO), then if it checks out, the next step is to check the regulator(HELLO)....remember? I never said "throw parts at the problem", ....What "biz" are you in? Know-It-ALL? Mind-Reading? "All" parts are not suspect if you "really" check them out are they? I think you've been talking to the Easter Bunny too much and serious episodes of dellirum have begun to set in..and I'm not even an electrician...geez, rookies. PM. <><Point taken -- electrical can baffle many. But, it's all understandable and check-able (by some). iirc, WC also replaced the battety with a non-oem model about the same time as the stator install. Until resolved, all components in the system are suspect.... To throw parts at the problem is called, in the biz, the "easter egg" method of troubleshooting.Electrical is not my cup of tea, but I'm sure to check out the stator is a simple test. If it checks out, then the check on the regulator is the next step. If the regulator is on the whack, get rid of that sucker. I've had some regulators play with my mind causing me to have fits at night as which our benevolent dictator has experienced. Regulators usually work or they don't. But some have had one *** up and one *** down...causing much confusion. PM. <><
ionbeam
2 FUN
This is a generic stator; rectifier; voltage regulator. I've taken some 'artistic license' with the design and have left out a number of little details but it is an accurate overview. You electrical techies please note that the Zener diode (D1) that is shown is a 6.2 volt device which is incorrect but does give the general idea of what is going on.
The AC Alternator shown on the right side is a representation of the Stator. The coils of wire are spun around by the engine crank. The coils reside within a ring that has permanent magnets embedded in it. Each time a coil of wire passes a magnet it produces a voltage pulse. The bridge rectifier D2 through D7 converts the AC output of the Stator to DC voltage. In the voltage regulator D1 sets the actual system voltage and SCR1 through SCR3 do the final regulation. Each SCR controls the voltage on one leg of the Stator.
D1 is a special diode (Zener) that regulates voltage very accurately. SCR1-SCR3 job is to leak current to ground, the amount they leak can be varied and controlled. The trick is to let enough leak to ground such that the electrical system will never exceed a maximum voltage, in the FJR the maximum voltage will be set ~14.3 volts.
Each of the three legs of the Stator produces ~60 VAC no load. Ideally D1 would be set at 14.3 volts. When the Stator voltage tries to exceed 14.3 volts SCR 1-3 will begin to conduct (leak) to ground drawing away excess energy from the electrical system, capping the voltage at 14.3 volts. As voltage drops below 14.3 SCR 1-3 start to shut off allowing more energy from the Stator to be routed to the battery/electrical system.
Most of the stator current will be consumed by the electrical system of the motorcycle. Only the leftover power will be sent through SCR 1-3. Should the electrical system draw more power than the Stator can supply SCR 1-3 will be completely off. If the excess load continues, the output voltage of the stator will drop. Now, instead of power being dissipated by the SCRs it gets dissipated within the Stator. This is when thing begin to turn brown and it gets ugly pretty quick.
FWIW, this is called a SHUNT type regulator because it shunts extra voltage to ground. As it is almost always dumping power to ground the regulator gets really, really hot. The ridges on the R/R are a heat sink that helps draw heat away. The R/R mounts to the frame and uses the frame to draw away even more heat.
The higher voltage output of the Electrosport stator will abuse the SCRs, potentially killing them. The added current of the Electrosport will abuse the voltage rectifiers taxing D2 to D7. All the diodes and SCRs are made from a material that will start to operate poorly if it gets too hot. Initially, when the devices cool they will mostly recover and seem to work ok again. Over time they become less able to recover and their performance will begin to degrade.
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Toecutter
What would DoG do?
I think it's time to move this thread closer to the snack bar, I hear there's a group discount on popcorn!
Hornet Pilot
Viper Pilot
This is a generic stator; rectifier; voltage regulator. I've taken some 'artistic license' with the design and have left out a number of little details but it is an accurate overview. You electrical techies please note that the Zener diode (D1) that is shown is a 6.2 volt device which is incorrect but does give the general idea of what is going on.
The AC Alternator shown on the right side is a representation of the Stator. The coils of wire are spun around by the engine crank. The coils reside within a ring that has permanent magnets embedded in it. Each time a coil of wire passes a magnet it produces a voltage pulse. The bridge rectifier D2 through D7 converts the AC output of the Stator to DC voltage. In the voltage regulator D1 sets the actual system voltage and SCR1 through SCR3 do the final regulation. Each SCR controls the voltage on one leg of the Stator.
D1 is a special diode (Zener) that regulates voltage very accurately. SCR1-SCR3 job is to leak current to ground, the amount they leak can be varied and controlled. The trick is to let enough leak to ground such that the electrical system will never exceed a maximum voltage, in the FJR the maximum voltage will be set ~14.3 volts.
Each of the three legs of the Stator produces ~60 VAC no load. Ideally D1 would be set at 14.3 volts. When the Stator voltage tries to exceed 14.3 volts SCR 1-3 will begin to conduct (leak) to ground drawing away excess energy from the electrical system, capping the voltage at 14.3 volts. As voltage drops below 14.3 SCR 1-3 start to shut off allowing more energy from the Stator to be routed to the battery/electrical system.
Most of the stator current will be consumed by the electrical system of the motorcycle. Only the leftover power will be sent through SCR 1-3. Should the electrical system draw more power than the Stator can supply SCR 1-3 will be completely off. If the excess load continues, the output voltage of the stator will drop. Now, instead of power being dissipated by the SCRs it gets dissipated within the Stator. This is when thing begin to turn brown and it gets ugly pretty quick.
FWIW, this is called a SHUNT type regulator because it shunts extra voltage to ground. As it is almost always dumping power to ground the regulator gets really, really hot. The ridges on the R/R are a heat sink that helps draw heat away. The R/R mounts to the frame and uses the frame to draw away even more heat.
The higher voltage output of the Electrosport stator will abuse the SCRs, potentially killing them. The added current of the Electrosport will abuse the voltage rectifiers taxing D2 to D7. All the diodes and SCRs are made from a material that will start to operate poorly if it gets too hot. Initially, when the devices cool they will mostly recover and seem to work ok again. Over time they become less able to recover and their performance will begin to degrade.
Toecutter
What would DoG do?
What's an SCR? Stator Current Regulator?
So, this explanation points to the theory that the Electrosport stator is frying the R/R, as was initially feared early on in this endeavor?
Which would also indicate that the Electrosport stator is putting out as advertised, but now the R/R needs to be upgrded.
Kinda like hopping up your motor/tranny, then wondering why you're snapping drivelines?
ionbeam
2 FUN
You get an 8 out of 10 for your guess! I like your interpretation better than the actual one. Unfortunately the answer won't supply much more information than the cryptic abbreviation. :glare: Silicon Controlled Rectifier -- > Silicon is what it is made from (as opposed to something like germanium) Controlled -- see the terminal that is connected to the 330 resistor? That is the control line that will determine when the SCR will conduct. Rectifier -- could be called a diode, same basic device except for the control line. Rectifier is actually an application for a diode, not a device type.
Rick Conn has written to me a couple of times and he seems pretty sure that the R/R can take the higher output. One thing's for sure, something is going **** up in WC system. His mostly new battery and electrical connections aren't totally eliminated as a possible cause. I need to go back and see how WC handled the 3 yellow wires which connect to the R/R.
The '06 R/R unit is physically larger and the bottom is flat to provide good heat sink capabilities. I haven't seen an '06 R/R but it looks like the connectors are different
If someone cobbles a Gen II R/R into a Gen 1 bike it will definitely have to be bolted to the frame or someplace metal for heat sinking. When I get to my R/R I will be using heat sink compound to help thermal conduction to the frame.Unfortunately most people won't be able to ohm the stator accurately because the resistance is so low. The test leads on a good DMM will have more resistance than the stator winding. The resistance at .330 ohms (point 330) is almost the same thing as an electrical short.
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JoshHefnerX
Well-known member
Perhaps the Datel is at fault, and maybe the electrical system is ok.... Where is WC anyhow?
scubatech
Well-known member
One of the good things Kawasaki and BMW have done is the move towards external alternators. It seems that it would be easier to upgrade and run much cooler than one immersed in oil?
ionbeam
2 FUN
Oops alert. Boo-boo patrol has sniffed out an error
Whew!
Electrosport reduced the output voltage of the stator, and traded up for current. The SCRs are not being over volted by the Stator. All else remains the same.
Whew!
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smitty141
My name is Smitty.. And I have a motorcycle proble
Well thats it... tomorrow I shopping for a ZX-14 with hard bags... :angry2: :angry2: :angry2:
check the for sale forum, I got alot of **** to unload...
check the for sale forum, I got alot of **** to unload...
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dobias
Well-known member
ionbeam,
"The '06 R/R unit is physically larger and the bottom is flat to provide good heat sink capabilities. I haven't seen an '06 R/R but it looks like the connectors are different If someone cobbles a Gen II R/R into a Gen 1 bike it will definitely have to be bolted to the frame or someplace metal for heat sinking. When I get to my R/R I will be using heat sink compound to help thermal conduction to the frame."
Would the top front of the swingarm (in front of the mudflap) be good? When you come up with the status of the '06 R/R connector, please let us know what will be necessary to fit one. I'd like to be sure of the outcome before I install the new stator & '06 R/R.
Has anyone determined if the supplier will be willing to refund our purchase? I still have mine in the box.
dobias :glare:
"The '06 R/R unit is physically larger and the bottom is flat to provide good heat sink capabilities. I haven't seen an '06 R/R but it looks like the connectors are different If someone cobbles a Gen II R/R into a Gen 1 bike it will definitely have to be bolted to the frame or someplace metal for heat sinking. When I get to my R/R I will be using heat sink compound to help thermal conduction to the frame."
Would the top front of the swingarm (in front of the mudflap) be good? When you come up with the status of the '06 R/R connector, please let us know what will be necessary to fit one. I'd like to be sure of the outcome before I install the new stator & '06 R/R.
Has anyone determined if the supplier will be willing to refund our purchase? I still have mine in the box.
dobias :glare:
ionbeam
2 FUN
[SIZE=36pt]Whoa, baby, don't even think about doing that! [/SIZE]
Got your attention?
Your '06 comes from the factory with all the extra amps you will need. Say thanks MamaYama!
FJR1300
FJR Pilot
ionbeam
2 FUN
dobias, err, so, hmmm you have an '04....
Take a deep breath, step away from the computer... Odot will be right along to explain the successive post errors :lol:
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HIGHLANDER
naewittyshitepostedeere
BrunDog
Well-known member
What is the rating of the 06 alternator? How much more juice does it provide than the 03-05's?
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radman
R.I.P. Our Motorcycling Friend
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